@saint.... clearly the reason why you repeat yourself is because you constantly refuse or ignore to answer new points, and are insteadselective and objective in your arguments and rationality. one only has to read all you posts on this thread alone to realise this.

you have backtracked... because earlier you said.....

(SAINT) "in order to understand the Bible properly, one has to read it and meditate on it, ask the Holy spirit to reveal the things of Jesus."

........however, now you say something different as we both know this is not a requirement.

and......

(SAINT) "This why he often prayed and talked to God, it is what he wants us to Do, not that he had to do that"

.........however, we both khow that this prayer and conversing was a sign of his submitting to god.

Submit: to yield oneself to the authority or control of another, to surrender. to subject to a process. to present for consideration or decision.

on your last point, as i said, john was not there so has not authority to write in the first person as he has. in fact jesus was not there either. and if you are to interpret the "word became flesh" verses to say he was, this would in fact be after the beginning, and jesus was clearly taught by god after this, so if jesus was in fact the word that became flesh, he clearly still had to be taught what that word was.

"i am the true vine, and my father is the gardener.HE CUTS OFFevery branch in me that bears no fruit. while every branch that does bear fruitHE PRUNESso that it will be even more fruitful"{john 15:1-2]

"for theFATHER loves the son and SHOWS him all he does" [john 5: 20}

jesus said, "I tell youthe truth, theSON can doNOTHING by HIMSELF" [john 5: 19]

"by MYSELF i can do NOTHING.... for i seek not to please myself but HIM who SENT me" [john 5: 30]


....... anyway you are right, this debate will go round and round as you are not prepared to question your beliefs come what may, and i do not expect you to, however, you should not ignore the obvious contradictions and discrepancies in the available "word", and that is all i have sought to highlight. Even scholar, teachers and preachers study such points and where relevant accept certain problems regarding contradictions, discrepancies and authenticity with christianity and biblical text. It doesnt make you a bad christian to study or accept them also where relavant, it makes you a rational christian!!!