Quote:
Originally Posted by Justavoice
Context is being lost in amongst all that is being said.
God is all knowing yes, but his creation is not all knowing due to circumstance ??
Yes God put the tree in the garden not merely just to put it there but to test man's obedience to his command. Had man had past the test he would have been ready for the next level.
Its like the very child that was mentioned earlier in the post. You tell a child not to go near a fire, because it does not know the danger of the fire or what it can do. So God warns man of the danger of disobedience, "you shall surely die". However some children have to go and touch that fire for themselves to get the message. So man touched the fire of sin and now we the offspring clearly are suffering from that touch to this very day.
Free will comes in by being given an option.
This question as been answered...
God knowing what I am going to do, before I go ahead to do it, does not take away my option. It only means he knows what I am going to do.
What you are questioning is time and eternity.
God does not dwell in time, he dwells in eternity. Everything as been done already, he's just watching us pass through time, he knows the choices we will make and at points he may intervene to steer us from traps that are set that we may come to know him, however he will not take away the option for us to live a life in sin, or live a life unto him.
So he remains all knowing, all seeing... He as the vantage point that no other as.
You speak of logic but knowledge of God does not automatically equate to throwing to the wind logic, just that God's ways are not our ways, his thoughts not our thoughts. So you have to rise to a different plane in regards to logic.
|
Use a little logic here. Can an all knowing god give a test to anyone? No. An all knowing god knows how you will come out of the test. Can an all knowing god be called benevolent if they are willing to subject you to tests they know you will fail and then plunge the rest of your genetic offspring into an eternity of pain and death.
If the christian god knew what was going to happen before he created it all, how then can you say he is not responsible for what has happened.
If I created a gun and placed it in front of a child, knowing fully that that child 100% will use it to harm himself and others, how then can I walk away without taking any responsibility for what I did. I created the gun, the child and did so knowing what that child would do, whilst i could have very easily not created the gun.
And free will cannot exist if the outcome of all actions are already known, that makes no sense. If the christian god knows that when you walk to a fork in the road, you will go left, then you walk to that fork in the road, the choice to take a right is only an illusion because you will definitely go left. No more free choice, it's called destiny. You cannot have free choice when the future is known.
If you're going to go with the argument that the christian god has already experienced all time and is simply watching us all go through it, one has to first determine whether time is separate from eternity and/or if time is linear/circular.
Should time be linear and the christian god exist alongside it in a separate eternity, having seen it all, the only way you could explain continued suffering without intervention is with that tired excuse that god works in mysterious ways and having seen it all is allowing it to happen so that the glorious end he has forseen will come to fruition. I don't buy that BS and never will and even for me to consider it in any way, I would have to see somewhere in that book where it tells you that is the case, as far as i have seen there is nothing in the bible which speaks of the nature of the christian gods relationship to time and knowledge of the future in such detail. This is simply a long standing conjeture that has been passed down for generations to explain away the inconsistencies of the christian dogma.
But if you insist that is the case...