Originally Posted by Afriki

I don't normally respond to long-ass posts...especially ones that delve into an extreme detailed response to one of mine and, yet, manages to completely miss every target I set up.
But, I'm feeling rather divulgent tonight.

As Black folks in the South say, Alright sister,lol.....

I do appreciate your response Gmahogany and the thought you put into it, however, if I am reading it as a response to my post, it really makes little sense to me.

My response made little sense to you when reading it as a direct response to your post, because it wasn't a direct response to your post. I'm typically very directed and pointed when responding to someone specifically, See my responses to InvertedZero. Plus, I'll usually quote them. Sometimes I'm responding to a general, overall theme that I've seen in SEVERAL people's posts. In those instances, I don't feel compelled to quote anyone in particular, cause i'm not talking to anyone in particular.

Now, I WAS trying to put a fine point on what you and others were saying about the genetic/cultural distinction. I know and understand what you meant by what you were saying, and I don't disagree with it, fundamentally. However, you aren't the only person who was making that argument, either in this go round on this topic or in past go rounds on this topic. Most of the time the people making that argument on this Board, are NON biracial Black folks who are making the argument as a basis for why Biracial people can't be trusted and should not be considered a part of the BLack collective. As a matter of fact, the first time I used my perceived reality/reality policeman example(which you were utterly unimpressed by) was in an exchange long ago in this very thread, when someone was making a blanket statement about ALL biracials not being trustworthy, and being proned towared undermining and sabotaging our agenda,selling us out, because of dual or conflicted loyalties, EVEN when that person had done nothing to indicate they had conflicted loyalties or couldn't be trusted. I was trying to make the point the EXPERIENCE weighs just as heavy as genetics and sometimes can trump it, and that all Biracials can't be painted with the same brush, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, etc. etc....

My basis for my view is that I've had a couple of biracial people as friends over the years, and the idea that because they have one white parent, they are in denial about the experience of being a non white person in AMerica is, or loathe to comment on it, or don't notice or experience it, doesn't ring true for me. One of my best friends in high school and college, was a biracial dude. I mentioned him earlier in this thread. His biological mom was white and his father was Black. HIs dad got remarried to a Black woman, and my friend and his brother (they had the same mother) lived with his father and step mom. This dude would in one breath talk about how his mom looked like Carol Brady of the Brady bunch, and speak with affection about her, and seemlessly make a comment about white racism, and feel no compunction at all. He didn't see it as a conflict and we didn't either,lol. It wouldn't be a rah rah, down with whitey,over the top comment either, it would just be TRUE REAL LIFE OBSERVATIONS, that any regular Black person could and would observe and comment on. Hell, we'd be talking about stuff sometimes and he'd pick up on some racist nuance that I didn't even focus on at first, but after he pointed it out, I would be like, damn....,lol

That's why I a. don't have much tolerance for the "tragic mulatto I'm so confused blues", and b. don't buy into the idea that all biracials are antithetical to the interest of the Black collective. Beyond that, I got two words for ya'll......Bob Marley.....what????????



ok, so this part we agree on.

Just to clarify though, the only folks I was "popping it" to in my post were confused Mulattos who do not understand this concept and twist their necks around to either conform to or deny an equally confused society, and in the process forgetting to rely on an understanding and acceptance of sense of self.

I understood what you were saying, and I understood who you were saying it to. As I've stated before, I'm familiar with your views on this topic. I knew what you meant and what you didn't mean. I'm just not sure that everyone else did, and I'm not sure that what you were saying wasn't generating some "unintended consequences", if you will.


oh, lord. Not this sorry, ad nauseum, excuse of a metaphor. Sorry, I'm unimpressed by sensationalism.
Honestly, when I read this, I see it as a sad attempt at knocking me off of some mixed, uppity, high-horse you incorrectly "perceive" me to be up on. I can guarantee you I'm not riding that horse. And if you feel that by me merely offering my honesty about the reality of being biracial justifies a preemptive attack on what you "perceive" is my misunderstanding of the concept of being unfairly treated by whites as a non-white person in America then you are singing to the wrong choir.

Again, I've READ your posts on this topic and others, going back over an extended period of time. I know that you aren't on some "mixed, uppity high horse,type of thing,lol. That's not why I used that metaphor. Really.

The one point that you did bring up in direct disagreement to my own is that perceived reality trumps reality. I don't believe this.
I may not be any less dead...but neither is my daddy any less white.
And while I'm alive I will continue to acknowledge that because to not do so would be to deceive myself, and because, should I ever become disillusioned, by that time I won't know who I am--confusion is breeding ground for the tragic mulatto. Nope, I'd rather play it safe and perceive myself through reality, not others' perceptions.

My reason for using that metaphor, extreme as it may be, was to combat what I see as a continued glibness and oversimplification when discussing this matter. People say stupid sH*t like why did/do you all 'ACCEPT" this or that, in this very abstract, totally devoid from real life way. "oh, just because white folks said thus and so, it was so? Yes, mutherphugger,pretty much, lol. It annoys me, it's very dismissive and arrogant, and it usually comes from people who have not lived, are NOT living the experience that they are commenting on. As if one can just see oneself what ever way one chooses, and not have to navigate a world where one is not SEEN that way, and not TREATED that way, AND that once one is SEEN AND TREATED THAT WAY for an extended period of time, that EXPERIENCE does not AFFECT and INFORM them.

I guess if yt people see Africans as lazy, no-gooders then we shall perceive ourselves as such as well? Can't really follow your logic, or quite frankly the point you were attempting to make in this entry.

I wasn't talking about perceptions from others that can't be directly acted apon and imposed on you. A regular white person THINKING all Blacks are no good and criminally inclined is one thing, as long as he has no power to affect Black people's lives. Who cares? A white person with a gun and a badge who thinks that and has the abilitity/authority AND RESPONSIBILITY to make very subjective life and death judgements that directly affect real live in the flesh Black folks , can't be as easily or glibly dismissed. To not worry about THAT mutherphuggers perception, is to take your life in your hands.....It can easily be demonstrated that the many cases of police brutality/ misconduct/judicial misconduct/D.A. overcharging, being followed around department stores,unfairness we experience on jobs and myriad other indignities, that MANY Black people experience on a daily basis are the result of WHITE PERCEPTION of Black folks. So the idea that it doesn't matter what other people think, as long as I know xyz, it's great in theory, and it even works in the real world, TO SOME DEGREE, but it's not as cut and dried or as simplistic as some folks try to play it like it is, ESPECIALLY in a place with the power dynamic set up that does not favor the "perceived" group. THAT was my point.

ETA: I liked the BN rule about not having Bi/multiracial debates. I think we should kill this thread and stick to purely African issues.