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22-05-08, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Incognito
sugashorti - well I identify myself by race first, nationality second, culture third making me African (diluted/even mixed but not by choice), British Jamaican as for me Caribbean isn't a race neither a land my forefathers asked to be taken so in some ways I reject it as my home as much as I reject the names and religion ingrained into slaves as if that's where their history as a people begun. If Africa is the root, nationality the trunk, culture the twig and personality the leaf then there are certain fundamentals like names and marriage where you have to look to your roots for reference.
I see myself as African of caribbean decent born in England, Africa is the root and I generally work from the root up....which is why my opinion on what marriage is and many other things goes deeper than the here and now.
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I did not define my race.... because for me this is too much using the white man's ideal of how I should label myself. This concept I disregarded quite early on when I was searching for my ancestors in the plantation livestock books. I know I do not have to explain to you that the white man uses decisive words like 'race' to separate different ethnic groups. Like you, I have rejected the white man's view, we are no longer animals - livestock - these days black woman are seen as sexual beings who have no soul!
I will not allow society to control my mind, I think 'outside the box'. What I mean is that I no longer feel the need to define oneself by the white man's ideals. That's why the way I wear locks or make it my focus to work with nature has nothing to with society's standards, I am no longer a sheep. So what I described was my heritage or connections: I am an Caribbean person of African decent, with British citizenship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito
It is also a land my forefathers did not ask to be taken so in some ways I reject it as my home as much as I reject the names and religion ingrained into slaves as if that's where their history as a people begun. I see myself as African of carribbean decent, Africa is the root and I generally work from the root up....which is why my opinion on what marriage is and many other things goes deeper than the here and now.
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I can see some in the Caribbean feel the same way you do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito
Now if you said you were British of Carribean-African descent then you might have some consistency but this need to say you are Caribbean first speaks volumes...especially when most Caribbeans would call you english.
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Why do you feel there is no consistency? For me, growing up, it was my Caribbean family influences (not British) which instilled in me a lot of my values today. Or do you think being born in an country suddenly makes you adopt that culture? Don't forget my parents were living in times where they faced extreme racism: NO blacks, No Irish, No dogs. Like I said before, I can speak of quite a lot of negative things regarding growing up in the Caribbean. I do have memories of children giving me an hard time because of my English accent but I also found acceptance there, the love of the community. Men and women holding their heads high despite the burden of oppression from an unfair society: the legacy of slavery. Many from the older generation encouraged me to improve through education, as they were denied that opportunity to succeed themselves. I do not believe I am weaker for following their advice, being the first from my village to gain a university degree. The whole community sees these childrens' achievements as theirs, and for me that is how it should be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito
Can I ask what race of people you ascribe to or is accepting history started from slavery an admission we are of no race or even unworthy of one.
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My take on slavery is this: I have no idea whether my ancestor was a male or female who arrived from that ship, I cannot image the horrors they faced but often I say a prayer to that person and the rest of my ancestors who I will never know because they had the strength to endure, so that I now have the freedom today to act on my wishes, unlike them. I can spend this freedom hating white people, or invest my energy like the others before me to improve things for the next generation. For me, there is the human race, which consists of many ethnic groups, defined by colour, religion and culture. It was the white man who coined this concept of a 'black race' to justify the selling and abusing of human beings ... they even used religious text to support their oppression.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito
By identify I mean this with respect to those who chose to disassociate themself from Africa,
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Because I don't believe in Africa as a Utopia, it does not mean I have disassociated myself, I am of African descent. Perhaps you feel I don't have
a strong affinity to Africa because I do not lay the blame for all black peoples' present problems at the white man's door. What would be the point of that?
Many choose to blame, so they do not actually have to strive for themselves. We have choices to act, to change how things are done. White society says black men are criminals who have loose morals and don't look after their children but our men do not have to behave that way. It is time black people understood they have the power to undermine this negative status quo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito
they look no further to how they are represented than where they were enslaved...why do you think this is, why does the buck stop there, because that's where their parents are from?
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I don't see the purpose of looking towards Africa to find my personal identity. It's untraceable and seems a futile exercise. Different African ethnic groups passed on their history by word of mouth, they had no reason to have an awareness of civilisations that had come and gone on the continent, thousands of miles from them or centuries before. I can draw a parallel between this scenario and of my not knowing my own roots because of slavery.
White society has always been about controlling everything around them, If you to consider the flowers on this earth; there are many varieties, they all have different names, they live in different climates but they are all FLOWERS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito
I had a similar argument with a bod who insisted his son who was born in the UK was Jamiacan yet the boys mum came from Barbados
Africa is indeed diverse which is why I don't understand why people always run away from it citing the bad bits, I say again, why don't people align themselves to the good bits.
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You are asking individuals to be responsible for their own future. It's not easy. It is easier to take the route of least work. I feel that black mens' refusal to recognise their bad treatment of black women, especially our mother's generation, has probably influenced black woman today to strive for themselves. However, it is easier to blame the woman: for being to preoccupied with money, being pigheaded, wanting to control men etc.
I wish I could see more positive images of black men than I do, when I go about my business. This not to suggest that black women do not have their issues as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito
Believe me I have similar debates with continental Africa and regular tell them they have lots they can learn from others...indeed many African conflicts were based on differences in values.
There are values I wanted to instill into my children but the babymother had her other anti-african ideas and thought she could use my Afican marriage values to raise them in front of my face like grey boys and not expecting to get knocked out.
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I can only say, it is your duty to teach your values to your children. Despite the behaviour of your ex-wife do everything you can to avoid giving up on your children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito
sugashorti...sorry should say certain things should always reference the root , everything else can be explained away through idle gossip. Calling yourself an African does not invalidate your Caribbean roots, if anything it magnifies it indeed to not recognise yourself as an African first is like you're admitting you wasn't descended from slaves....the ultimate parody if there ever was one.
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I do not see that I am any less an African when I describe myself as being of African descent.
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