Le Moor - I've started a couple of threads asking the same question and my conclusion is simply this, the question is irrelevant until you define what a family is. To many babymothers/babyfathers a child simply needs to know who you are, the distance between isn't an issue...even more so if you're a babyfather bankrolling the babymother.

Been here long enough to know now people defend predicaments not principles, indeed their principles are defined by their pridicament, a family is basically whatever situation they find themselves in now. When I hear people talking about children just need a positive male role model it makes me want to puke....low lives who don't know what a dad is speak sh1t like this.

Me personally, based on what I define as a family, I can't do nish for my children other than moral advice and buy them things. Yeah a trip to the park or cinema every now and then but nothing of any nurturing depth....just a superficial acquaintance. Probably the biggest adjustment of my life was seeing my children change from being my life to being a chapter in my life...dunno, maybe it's time to become a mini cab driver

If there is one thing that epitomises wotliss nastiness, for me it has got to be seeing little children who should be secure under their family roof being bounced between households for parental aquaintance. I'd rather the children stay one place, guess that fits my family model, a part time relationship with my children is an insult, on a par with having to go to some paedophile judge for him to tell me what kind of relationship I'm entitled to have with them.

I wonder what my babymother tells my boys about what to look for in a woman, and if she is the reference how she is moulding them to see that as normal...scary sh!t. As a part time dad, the most you will ever be to your kids is a friend, and babymothers actually get a kick out of knowing this.