Mbeki criticised for praising 'racist' Sarkozy


· SA president congratulates French leader on speech
· Senegal address widely condemned by Africans

Chris McGreal in Johannesburg
Monday August 27, 2007
The Guardian

South Africa's president, Thabo Mbeki, has been forced to defend his description of Nicolas Sarkozy as "a citizen of Africa", for a speech by the French president that was widely condemned elsewhere on the continent as racist.

Mr Mbeki wrote to the rightwing French leader praising an address to a university audience in Senegal last month in which Mr Sarkozy said that Africans had turned their back on progress.

"The tragedy of Africa is that the African has never really entered into history ... They have never really launched themselves into the future," Mr Sarkozy said. "The African peasant, who for thousands of years has lived according to the seasons, whose life ideal was to be in harmony with nature, only knew the eternal renewal of time ... In this imaginary world, where everything starts over and over again, there is room neither for human endeavour, nor for the idea of progress.

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"The problem of Africa ... is to be found here. Africa's challenge is to enter to a greater extent into history ... It is to realise that the golden age that Africa is forever recalling will not return, because it has never existed." Mr Sarkozy also defended France's past role in Africa by saying that while it may have made "mistakes", it "did not exploit anybody".

The speech was widely condemned, including by the head of the African Union commission, Alpha Oumar Konare. "This speech was not the kind of break we were hoping for," he told Radio France Internationale. "It reminded us of another age, especially his comments about peasants." Other critics said that while Mr Sarkozy asked younger Africans if they wanted an end to corruption and violence, he failed to acknowledge the role of France in propping up abusive regimes.

The French government defended Mr Sarkozy's speech by saying that he also criticised the laissez-faire economics of globalisation and proposed a partnership with Africa to confront it.

Parts of the South African president's letter to Mr Sarkozy were leaked to Le Monde last week.

"What you have said in Dakar, Mr President, has indicated to me that we are fortunate to count on you as a citizen of Africa, as a partner in the protracted struggle to achieve the renaissance of Africa within the context of a European renaissance and the rest of the world," Mr Mbeki wrote.

Mr Sarkozy was reported to have written back: "You have been kind enough to highlight the 'courage and truthfulness' of this speech. As you very well know, Africa needs truthful friends in order for her to meet the challenges she is facing."

Mr Mbeki's letter has led to criticism in the media and among African diplomats.

One South African political commentator, Xolela Mangcu, wrote in The Weekender newspaper: "Does Mbeki say one thing in public and a different thing in private correspondence with western leaders? Could that be the reason he is treated by suspicion by some African leaders?

"At the very least I would have expected him to have joined other African leaders and publicly condemn Sarkozy."

Mr Mbeki's spokesman, Mukoni Ratshitanga, told Johannesburg's Business Day: "We concur with some of the elements of Sarkozy's speech in so far as it relates to his commitment to partner the continent in its process of renaissance."

Mr Mbeki also publicly praised the speech in his weekly newsletter, saying it suggested that France was willing to press for a fairer trade deal for Africa.

Backstory

France maintains closer ties to its former African possessions and their leaders than other former colonial powers. It underpins the common currency used in some central and west African Francophone countries, maintains large military bases there and has proven more willing to send troops to the continent to defend its allies, including the Hutu regime in Rwanda that oversaw the 1994 genocide. Nicolas Sarkozy has indicated some changes to the relationship and admitted to mistakes by France but he told Africans to stop blaming the past for their problems. In his Dakar speech, he asked the audience if they wanted an end to arbitrary corruption and violence. "It is up to you to take the decision and if you decide so, France will be by your side."

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Well I would be slow to praise this Sarkozy as well. He's talking along the same lines that White Supremacist have been using for years: White men have created ALL of the worlds' technologies, which makes Whites superior to all non-Whites. While certainly Whites have contributed greatly to many of the things we consider "advancements" today, they have hardly did it ALONE! Science/technology is build on each other, and something simple and insignificant to some would have actually been some of the things that enabled some Whites to invent whatever they invented!

The only thing that I DO halfway agree with Sarkozy with is that Black intellectuals globally tend to spend a bit to much energy focusing on the past, particulary SLAVERY and NOT ENOUGH ENERGY PREPARING US FOR THE FUTURE. While slavery was an undeniable tragedy for our people, if we're not careful we can EASILY be RE-ENSLAVED MENTALLY (some believe we already are). And although this probably won't be a popular sentiment on this board, I do BELIEVE Black people growing ECONOMICALLY INDEPENDENT of Whites (and even Asians) is far more important for Black survival than what African country a "black disporian" came from (this is nothing but another way we bury our head in the sand by living in the past).......................

What a pleasant change it is: a few months ago such a post would have been met with howls of indignation. It's very nice to see a thoughtful reasoned response.

Sarkozy was being condescending and racist in that he implied that Whites created civilization, they did not, but when you are at the bottom, sometimes you have to take shit. What really troubles me is that all the rest of Africa seems to have had no clue as to what he was talking about. Whether you agree with his logic or not, there should be no doubt about the gist of what he said. How can they move forward when those fools can't even figure out that they are behind. What a sad pathetic bunch they are.

I found one thing that he said particularly interesting, quote: Mr Sarkozy said. "The African peasant, who for thousands of years has lived according to the seasons, whose life ideal was to be in harmony with nature, only knew the eternal renewal of time ... In this imaginary world, where everything starts over and over again, there is room neither for human endeavour, nor for the idea of progress.

In contemplating how the world evolved, this is one of the explanations for why Sub-Sahara Africa did not advance, (the other is not so complimentary). Certainly after the fall of the original Black civilizations, Sub-Saharan's had the opportunity to take up the banner of civilization, but they didn't, they seem to have rejected it.

And here is where African leadership (if they had the mental capacity) should have stepped forward and asked the question: Is the way that you took by force and added unto, really better?

Is it really better to try to control nature, or is it better to live within it's confines. How grand a house do you need in order to live comfortably in it. How much food do you need before you are full. How much wealth do you need, before you feel that you have enough. How many must you kill before you feel powerful.

These are all legitimate questions for people all over the world. As we continue to pollute and despoil the planet, these questions will take on greater urgency.

1. Has the man no strength? Why would he even acknowledged this French president? Europeans have nothing but hate for Africa. even in Sarkozy's speech to the people of Senegal. He was trying to come across as Academic, but even that sounded Imperial. lol

2. That an Oxymoron right their. the only thing Europeans are good at is falsification of native history of other continents. They don't have the Honesty of telling the truth. look at what Napoleon did when he went to Ancient Egypt. He blew off the sphinx's Nose becuase it resembled an African. this is the level of their honesty.

No, made him and the entire contienent of Africa lose face yet again. Every African should be embarrassed.

Yes, Sarkozy is one of Africas many European pimps so he has a right to say what he wants. Africans are too tribalistic. There is a culture of wanting to be the victim and utter lack of machiavellian intelligence. The same can be same with disporians be we have it to a lesser degree.

Q1. No, could have acknowledged or expanded on a point or two. You know he's selling out when he says '..it suggested that France was willing to press for a fairer trade deal for Africa...' ...so what, the unfair trade has nothing to do with Africa's economic enslavement?

Q2. Again No. especially the bit about '..because it has never existed." - he clearly has never visited the Louvre Museum in Paris housing all those Ancient African artifacts....or researched ancient West African Empires.

Quote:

In contemplating how the world evolved, this is one of the explanations for why Sub-Sahara Africa did not advance, (the other is not so complimentary). Certainly after the fall of the original Black civilizations, Sub-Saharan's had the opportunity to take up the banner of civilization, but they didn't, they seem to have rejected it.

????????

http://www.blackchat.co.uk/theblackf...m37/12819.html

What does Sarkozy imagine the French or European peasant was busy doing over the passage of millenia? When one Euro scientist was dreaming of this or another painting that, the peasant ie the other 99.9999% of euro people were still in the field. When for example, Brunel was building his great engineering works (off the back of slavery money) and sculpting the landscape very proudly... euro children were shoved up chimneys to choke and die early unenducated stink filled deaths, girls worked to the bone 18 hours a day in mills and sweatshops and gangs of peasants roamed around in the gutter like trash.

Going back to the slavery money thing I don't throw that in for a facetious point. Slavery money built and funded europe to such a massive extent the industrial revolution would not have been possible without it. From where did the money for all the big schemes come from. We are told that steam wagons were invented and then shown a map a few years later with rail networks scribbled all over a landscape. Does the unthinking fool imagine that was funded with pretend money or France was magically rich? Insurance houses gave loans to such builders and schemers with the profits from their main business, slavery. Cotton, Sugar, Tea and so on fulled Britain, France and Spain and slavery funded everything. The big country houses, the fantastic bridges, the road networks (excepting Germany who used Jewish slaves directly there)... EVERYTHING was built on the brutality of the savage average euros capacity for the most heinous of crimes. Brilliant legacy

His comment being limited to peasants is spot on because PEASANTS generally spent and spend millenia grubbing about in the dirt without change for that has globally been the role of peasants.

I'm reminded of Will Smith telling a robot why it isn't equal to a human in the movie irobot. "Can a robot take a canvas and create a masterpiece? Can a robot create great scores of music? etc"... The robot's classic answer "can you?"

Does Sarkozy himself even understand the basic science and technology that undermines much of the modern world that he takes credit with his race for? I doubt it. Scientists themselves are rarely so stupid lol. And not only can an abstract concept like "science" not be the property of any individual or race but the collective knowledge of scientists anywhere is an ongoing process interdependent of many origins and cultures. No culture in isolation fully developed any science itself. Each drew on not only it's neighbours but it's predecessors.

Sarkozy is probably imagining and group of brilliant clever euros collectively and purposefully designing and working themselves alone into the situation of today. What is amusing is that even today in so called modern world I doubt 1% of euros could understand the basic concepts that go into much of the technology around them. This in a world where everybody has books and education is mandatory. What does that frog imagine euros were like a few 100 years ago. 50 years ago?

The irony is the French is still a nation of peasant farmers. Oh highly subsidized and spoilt with ridicolous protectionism and strikes every year but aside from that hmpf! Let his magically enlightened farmers compete fairly with farmers globally, let all euro farmers DARE to attempt this without their militia and governements forcing an unfair playing field and let us see how great they truly are.

Finally I'm not sure what science and technology Sarkozy expected people fighting wars against oppressive barbaric colonisers and enslavers to be busy constructing when all around them was being pulled down and taken away back to "civilization".

Now for that art... Most of what euros define today as "civilisation" refers to arts that they themselves set limits on and decide is "classical" This then is an arbitary cultural xenophobic description with little objective or even subjective merit since it encompasses all and conveys an essence of percieved superiority without even needing to be compared to anything else. Without looking at a sculpture, painting, carving from ANYWHERE whites decide theirs is classical masterpiece (relative to them) and hence a standard bearer of "civilsation". This then has no basis in reality and worries me not.


All that said it is true that too many black intellectuals today spend far to much time navel gazing and looking backwards and not enough planning, scheming or dreaming.

Where is the role Europe played and still plays in Africa's history amongst this boy's foolishness???



"The tragedy of Africa is that the African has never really entered into history ... They have never really launched themselves into the future," Mr Sarkozy said. "The African peasant, who for thousands of years has lived according to the seasons, whose life ideal was to be in harmony with nature, only knew the eternal renewal of time ... In this imaginary world, where everything starts over and over again, there is room neither for human endeavour, nor for the idea of progress.

"The problem of Africa ... is to be found here........

But............

"..... he told Africans to stop blaming the past for their problems.


Only a white man is allowed to do that eh!!! FOOL!!



So I guess Africans should forget about this past as well then...........


The Price Haiti had to pay france for freedom, until 1947

"All of the world was shocked and horrified: It was a “dreadful” example for slaves everywhere. No country gave Haiti formal recognition until much later. USA wouldn't recognise it until 1862, under the excuse that black ambassadors would be a bad example for the local slaves, and France only recognised it in 1825, after Haiti, strangled by an economic blockade, had to accept paying for the estimation France had made of their "losses” with Haiti’s independence: the estimatie was made in a calculation of how much the French had stopped profiting, and for the “price” of all the slaves that had been freed ... civilised manners demand payment for the loss of “property”. The debt Haiti had to pay was originally 150 millions of francs, 44 times the national budget of Haiti at the time. They got into a debt that will last for 100 years with French bankers, and no matter that the debt was further adjusted to 90 million, by the end of the XIX century, this debt absorbed 80% of the national income. It is in this that we find the main reason of Haiti’s apalling poverty. The debt was only cancelled in 1947."

Stop the military occupation of Haiti! - Central America / Caribbean Imperialism / War - Anarkismo


That initial sum, when calculated into modern currency equates to around US$22 Billions.

So when is history important then Mr french revolution? Should Haiti blame its current state on being from a continent and people that has "no history"?


Is it any wonder that soo many Africans educated in European schools of "learning" have serious problems around mental health, liking themselves, their people and homeland??



Is mbeki right to praise Sarkozy?

Breadfruit - thank you for the piece on Haiti, I didn't know about that. But having read it, don't you think that the Haitians are just as responsible, perhaps more so, for their condition, as the White man.

It seems to me, that for every situation where they were screwed, there was an alternative that they chose not to take. Not to mention that it was the behavior of Haiti’s own elite, which invited foreign intervention. And it is the superstitions of its masses, which is ultimately responsible for it’s condition today.

It is the nature of the world that any people will become a target, once they show themselves to be vulnerable. Haiti’s condition begged for exploitation, and of course Whites will always be there to ac