should we inform on the Gun idiots

Dillinger · (#1 (**permalink**))

Seems like no wants to respond to your question maybe you should ask it in a different way. something like if you someone you know has a gun would you tell on them? if so why? If not why not?

Kunjufu · (#2 (**permalink**))

Mantings: I'm surprised no one apart from Dillinger has responded to this important question yet.. For me personally i'm very i don't associate or mix with ruff necks.. further if i knew someone was dealing in gun play even if it were a family member.. I would not hesitate to shop them to the babylon before he/she could say their name twice..

The only thing worse that a ******* prepared to poison his/her community with the devil invention of narcotics is a ******* who think nothing of shoting an African, be it in the Disaporra or in the continent of Africa..to me only the highest form of punishment is appropriate for scum like these..

what gets me is that some so-called dj's talk about chi chi man and how dem fi burn..but forget to chat 'bout di gunman who is killing off Africans and diasporran African's fi joke...its dem man who fi burn...

Kunjufu · (#3 (**permalink**))

Mantings: That should not even be a hard question..the fact is you have a choice either you believe it is right to carry gun or not..if you feel it is not right, then my question is how can these people still be considered your friends, you should have moved away from them a long time ago..

In my view someone carries a gun for one reason and for one reason only..that is to take life, one does carry gun for no other purpose. The people who you know may have 'honorable' intentions however the bottom line still remains that they cannot control a situation where guns are used, and in thatreality they could either kill someone not connected (as in Birmingham) wid their foolishness or attract those who could do the same..the only defence that i can see is that one should not be in a position where carrying a gun is necassary to 'protect' oneself fullstop..

Sorry but I would be tempted to shop them or to walk away from people with such a disregard for life... bottom line this blackman code bizniz is horseshit..blackpeople who deal in guns are NOT black and do not have our best interest as black people at heart....the rate by which young black men are dying(guilty & innocent)tells me that..thse people do not derserve our collective loyalty...they are to be treated like any other racist white person with a gunas an enemy of the people fullstop

RymJack5 · (#4 (**permalink**))

Mantings wrote:

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It's sad realy as much of our community can't face the reality of the situation and would prefer to bury their head in the sand and pretend it does not exist. To give an exampleI am in a situation where I know a few people who carry guns for 'protection'because of the things they do (and no I don't mean selling drugs), these people are club owners, bouncers and bonifida business men, who believe they can only conduct their businesssafely if they keep these weapons closeto hand because if they didn't other gun carriers would take the piss if theythought they were unarmed.

Ihave known these people for years and they have always had guns and as far as I am aware theyhave never killed anybody and I don't believe they ever will execept maybein self deffence. The question is should I inform on them? Remembering I come from the school of thought that one Blackman should never inform on another, and the fact they only keep weapons for their personalprotection.

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I don't think you should inform on them.I too come from the school you mentioned. However, I also know first hand whatit looks like when the guns get out of hand. It all starts with a group of people getting guns to protect themselves from others who have guns.A few years later...everyone has them. Then people start getting quicker and quicker to use them. After thatthe old school "tough guy" who fights with his fists goes out of style. He gets replaced by 100 skinny adolescents who couldn't frighten a mouse unarmed. But they have found that they can terrorize half a city with guns. Next thing you know you're losing 5-10 young Black men to gun violence every weekend in one city because every argument automatically ends in gunfire. If that's not the way it is where you live now...I hope you will be able to find someway to prevent that scenario from occuring in the future. Because believe me, it is a very real and very ugly scenario. And once it starts it is almost impossible to end. On the this side of the water the people in charge like to see that occur. Hopefully the ones who govern you are a little more altruistic and little less sadistic.

[quote]I do think it would be best if your community can handle the problem on your own. But don't ask me how that can be done. Look at the location...obviously I don't know.Everyone I know has one...even my Grandmother. I wish I was joking but I'm not.Between the early 80's and now thousands of young Black men have lost their lives to gun violence and we continue to die of gun violence at a high rate.But that's on this side of the water.Maybe you all are a little more refined over there.

Kunjufu · (#5 (**permalink**))

RymJack5 wrote:.

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I don't think you should inform on them.I too come from the school you mentioned. However, I also know first hand whatit looks like when the guns get out of hand. It all starts with a group of people getting guns to protect themselves from others who have guns.A few years later...everyone has them. Then people start getting quicker and quicker to use them. After thatthe old school "tough guy" who fights with his fists goes out of style. He gets replaced by 100 skinny adolescents who couldn't frighten a mouse unarmed. But they have found that they can terrorize half a city with guns. Next thing you know you're losing 5-10 young Black men to gun violence every weekend in one city because every argument automatically ends in gunfire. .

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Rymjack: Sorry but i really don't follow you logic, at what point do people stay loyal to those firing off guns.. When they shoot a 6 year old in the back as they did recently in this country, or when another 6/7 year old is shot in the arm having been caught in the cross fire of these warring fools.. Or maybe we stay loyal when they tie up a mother of four to a chair and shoot her in the head in front of her children (as in Tipper ire sister's case,) Or maybe we shut our mouths to knowing the brother that maliciously got out of his car and shoots a pregnant lady in both knees for having the audacity to get into a car shunt with him...but even better we should protect the brother who in having a confrontation with a 13 year old a few days ago decides to end the arguement by shooting him..

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Sorry i don't get the arguement that say we owe a debt of silence to people like these..nor do i get it when people prefer to 'protect' arseholes like this over decent people.. Look its not a black vs white issue here..these people will destroy quicker than any form of racism and they don't appear to care who gets in their way.

[quote][quote]its not a matter of the police Vs black people its a matter of them (gunman)Vs us... if they win we lose and i mean lose everything...simple maths..

Kunjufu · (#6 (**permalink**))

Mantings wrote: .

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Basicaly I supose what I amtrying to say isthat people who inform on gumenmight actualy be promoting the'bad boy gunidiots' by removing those who keep them at bay.

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Mantings: forgive me because i am trying very hard to understand your logic..but i'm struggling here..i really can't see how it follows that byshopping these fools to the police, how it could seen as promoting 'bad bwoyism'..Ruff necks can't be contasined or restrained..by their very nature they don't give a f*ck about themselve or anyone else...In my view if we hide these fools we in effect surrender our liberties and our lives to these fools...

[quote]therefore what is it that i'm missing can you expand on what you mean exactly..

RymJack5 · (#7 (**permalink**))

Kunjufu wrote:Sorry but i really don't follow you logic, at what point do people stay loyal to those firing off guns.. When they shoot a 6 year old in the back as they did recently in this country, or when another 6/7 year old is shot in the arm having been caught in the cross fire of these warring fools.. Or maybe we stay loyal when they tie up a mother of four to a chair and shoot her in the head in front of her children (as in Tipper ire sister's case,) Or maybe we shut our mouths to knowing the brother that maliciously got out of his car and shoots a pregnant lady in both knees for having the audacity to get into a car shunt with him...but even better we should protect the brother who in having a confrontation with a 13 year old a few days ago decides to end the arguement by shooting him..

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Sorry i don't get the arguement that say we owe a debt of silence to people like these..nor do i get it when people prefer to 'protect' arseholes like this over decent people.. Look its not a black vs white issue here..these people will destroy quicker than any form of racism and they don't appear to care who gets in their way.

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its not a matter of the police Vs black people its a matter of them (gunman)Vs us... if they win we lose and i mean lose everything...simple maths..

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Kunjufu: Okay...I do see where you are coming from. First of all I believe that there are huge differencesbetween thegun laws where you live and where I live. I live in a gun-loving country where a person with a gun is no big deal. As a result, there are many horrible incidents like the ones you described above. There is no logic to the gun laws in this country or the amount of guns in the hands of its citizens. There also is no logic in the fact that many Black communities here have a disproportionate amount of gun dealers in the neighborhood. And there is no logic to the fact that those gun dealers are willing to sell their wares off the books to anyone with enough cash. An example is the "beltway sniper." I don't know if you are familiar with that case but he got that weapon from a certified dealer who was selling guns off the books. He then went and killed a bunch of people with it. There also is no logic in the fact that soldiers from the country I live in are committing MANY gun crimes in Iraq RIGHT NOW. Do you think little Iraqi children aren't getting caught in the crossfire over there? I live in a community full of guns and nobody in authoritygives a "S" about it. I see the damage that gets done. I do not like it and I know that there is so much gun violence here because the people in power here condone everyone having guns and thereby endorse the subsequent gun violence. There is no logic to that.

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Nowback to"informing". I was taught growing up that I shouldn't tell on anyone for anything. But that lesson had more to do with a distrust for police and the establishment than morality. I don't know how it is where you live(that's why I'm here in this forum) but where I live there is a LONG-RUNNING and DEEP-ROOOTED tension between the Black Community and law enforcement. My upbringing might have stressed that tension and distrust more than average. I was taught not to "inform" as a matter of principle and I have stood by that principle in the face the of consequences and rewards. Now a principle such as that is going to contain good and bad. A principle isn't flexible. It acts one way regardless of the circumstances. So in a sense...there is a certain degree of

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"ill logic" in any dogmatic principle. Let's say there is an innocent man who is being wrongfully hunted by the police and there is good chance that he won't get any justice in the courts. I see that man go running by and then the police come up and ask me which way he went. I say, "I don't know." And maybe the innocent man gets away. That is the good side of the coin. The bad side is that if it is a guilty man who goes running by my answer will be the same. You may say that is illogical. I say so are the conditions that produced that mentality. If the police treat you fair regardless of color where you live...then you are fortunate. That isn't how it is here. There is injustice and racism in the legal system. There are police forces that resemble, and act as,a white supremacist group. And it has been that way from the beginning. There is no logic to that condition either.

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I responded to this thread because I hope that your country doesn't end up with the ridiculous amount of gun violence as this one. I responded to this thread because I hope that the Black Communities there can get rid of the guns that will only be used to kill Africans. Because in this country we are seeing the destruction of ANOTHER generation of young African men and OUR PEOPLE AS WHOLE CANNOT AFFORD TO LOSE ANY MORE THOUSANDS OF LIVES TO VIOLENCE. Not here, not in the UK, not in Brazil and not on the Continent.

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I know that in the u.s."informing" doesn't help the problem of crime and violence in the Black Communities.It makes things worse becauseit causes more distrust and division. The police want to make their"quota" in arrests. They don't give a flying "F" about the Black Community.If they did, they would arrest the WHITE PEOPLE who are distributing the drugs and guns to the Community in bulk. The only people who care about the state of the Black Community are the Black People who live in that Community. And while there are differences between the cultures we live in, I seriously doubt there is any variance on that last point. There is no variance on that last point worldwide. The only people who care about the African, no matter where he is, are other Africans. There is no running to the white authority figure to solve our problems for us. That's been the pattern thus far and there has been little improvement. The only time there is improvement is when weTAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR OURSELVES and take matters into our own hands. That translates to any situationANYWHERE where thereare Africans living under a white establishment.The only time liberation came to Africa was when the Africans stopped looking for it the whites and took matters in their own hands.

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So again...I do think that something needs to be done about the guns. I don't think that complaining to the same party that supplies the guns will do any good. They don't need to arrest the African man who has one gun. They need to arrest the white man who supplies truckloads of guns to the community. Now I don't know if that happens where you live. But if there is disproportianate of gun violence in the Black Community then I would expect that is what happens. If it is hard to get guns in your country but they keep showing up on the streets in the hands of young African men...I would have to guess that is exactly what happens.

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~Gemini~ · (#8 (**permalink**))

Of course you should inform on them if you have knowledge about a gunman. By not doing so you are protecting them

Also I didn't know gun crime affected the African communtity

Kunjufu · (#9 (**permalink**))

Mantings: ok now your making perfect sense to me now...I overstand. Tough very tough indeed having once been in a situation where I had my life threaten because some ruff necks wanted into a party held by a friend.. I can related to the club owner situation ..I can also see why the Bouncer woould be very vulnerable.. especialy as it is not uncommon for bouncers to get shot during the course of their work..

I think on these points..the problem lies as you have commented on with the Police,this is where i believe as a community we ought to be pressing Local goverment, the police and our politicials for a proper return for our tax dollars.. The issue your talking about Mantings is political and i thing this where we are weak because there is not enough pressure to ensure we get a proper service from the police..I'm amazed that the police are often cited as NOT interested in these type of scenarios..this one of the reason why gun crime is on the rise..because ruff necks know they can kill with total immunity from prosecution..

Kunjufu · (#10 (**permalink**))

Ijexa wrote:

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@KunJuFu

My take on this is simple... responsible adults should be able to own firearms... irresponsible children should not...

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Hmmmm...Ijexa define 'responsible' and then qualify what is 'reasonable'..I hear what you're saying but that is a recipe for mayhem... A white man for instance could argue 'reasonable' force in shooting a black yout a fiive paces on the balance of probabilities that he could be a mugger... Or in the Tony Martin's case, shoot someone clearly fleeing in the back..how about roard rage..I shoot another driver based on the fear i could be attacked.. I just don't see it within the present context..

[quote]however if we are talking revolutionary tactics then yes i could see your point, but otherwise no..