@Camile, just an afterthought. There is always positive in adversity, if we think clearly enough. While the situation you are facing is far from certain in terms of the outcome.

We had a very interesting debate not long ago on the issue of leadership, which had me chuckling and shaking my head at some points, because our failure to understand basic fundamentals. Without leadership at every and all levels, it is my view that the average person does not have the information, or resources or inclination to be able to make complex social judgements on things which can have major positive or devastating impact on our people and themselves.

The issue is question is a perfect example. Left to their own individual decisons, uniformed by others in the postion to know, our people end up often regretting decisions made, or not exploring alternatives which were never put to them.

So I think you can and I hope take this opportuntiy to educate and influence those you know in whatever way you can, and dare I use the word excercise some social leadership on this matter when and where it rears its head. We need more and more people whether they have children already, or are thinking about it to be exposed to what we have discussed and those type of issues before they make critical decisions.

Because my vision of the future is one where we will have a mass of black people confused and doing contradictory and damaging things, systematically depletingn their numbers and who do not recognise any concept of leadership, and are fragmented and weak.

While on the other you will have those that do, such as myself and hence my decisions, who will organise or band together with their own, or through good personal leadership within the family make important decisions which will force them to work closer and in complementary ways to those who do and develop or accept leadership, from wherever it comes from.

Fredniceone.gif

@ Fredblack

'While on the other you will have those that do, such as myself and hence my decisions, who will organise or band together with their own, or through good personal leadership within the family make important decisions which will force them to work closer and in complementary ways to those who do and develop or accept leadership, from wherever it comes from'.


A very good and positive response in your last entry. I'm not quite sure what you were trying to say in the entry before that one?

you wrote: Regretably this is where the problem lays.We don't actually do much thinking until it is well too late. I heard a leading African American phsycologist give a talk on raising children and building families, say from her experience the average African American male should not have children until in their 30's and women much older than the present norm. My father told me that as a child and I stuck to it. The reason being children are not an after the event consideration, in terms of the things we need in place which are crucial before we have them.

I am 37 my partner is 34 we had our first child only two years ago - we have been together for 11 years, having a child was not something that we wanted to rush into - we enjoyed our relationship. Our daughter was not an 'after the event consideration', we ensured that we were both financially, emotionally and mentally ready for her. We provide her with a loving home but with all the good will in the world, we cannot protect her from the harsh realities of the many things that are destroying our race. The issues were present prior to having our child, of course, but we now feel more responsible as parents.

..........But anyway, I appreciate that this is not a discussion that many people want to take part in, but really, that is something that I have noticed about this forum, as an older member, please can you tell me why whenever someone sayssomething negative everyone wants to jump up and act like everything is all peachy, what is the purpose of the forum, if not to bring to the fore important issues that are affecting the black race today?I appreciate that not everyone will agree, but why do so many people feel the need to be in denial. Not just on this issue but so many others? How will we ever go foreward, if people are not prepared to see the faults that exist within us?

@Camile. Hmmm. As I said it is impossible to speak specifically on these mattes as people's circumstances is their affair, hence why people talk generally. The key point I make and consistantly make is that we have to make very very informed decisions about a whole range of issue, including where we live, what is available in terms of human and institutional support or failing that can we help to create those things, and range of other issues prior to having children.

Hence why the issue of leadership and direction is so critical. I would talk about leadership issues all day, because I think it is the one fundamental issue which determines everything else. But as you will see people will talk about what they want to talk about.

It is very difficult to try to bolt the gate once the horse has bolted. Sister let me tell you from long experience a significant number of people don't give a damn, until they have direct experience of the problem and then they rush to educational meetings for example and want to keep up a stink. Often making noise at people sitting at the platform who have already got things in place for their children. When things touch people they want to know and that is almost a golden rule with too many of our people.

And unless anyone can show different, I am not sure how that is going to change. As I said those who know and do are in a far better and stronger situation than those who do not. Simple. Hence my prediction you will get a more fractured community, seperating around networks and cleavages, while the rest just float....

Sis regarding what people want to talk about. I don't think its a case of denial at all even though I cannot speak for the majority who I do not know. People here talk problems and issues rarely solutions. They will talk black man and woman issues, mix relations until they are tired, but solutions it would appear is beyond too many. So they bore very easy and the quality of debate often needed is simply not there.

You could put post the most fundamental issues concerning their future, and some sexual issues such as Oral sex comes up which draw the most attention. Sorrry sis that is where people are at. Denial to my understanding suggest to hide and refuse to face. While I suggest the issue is not even being able to recognise what priorities are, given where they are. No denial there...

But despite your frustration, there are always a few who will engage with you who have a different set of priorities and understanding. So don't get to frustrated and just take it as an insight into how people are thinking and try to steer a path around it. That is what I have to do. For example I thought we were having a decent conversation with our man, but after a while it was clear his interests are not serious. So simply move on and you will find someone who is more serious..


As everything in life you can only work and deal effectively with people who share your framework and fundamentals and priorities.

Fredniceone.gif

Kunjufu - In the main I would agree with you butI have seen some really unintelligent/disrespectful threads on this forum that have gone on for paaaaaages!

It appears to be the unintelligent threads that seem to attract the most attention.

I have notdisrespected anyone on this forum, I already stated that I did not intend for this thread turn into a male bashing thing. I simply wrote my views, I return to BN because I enjoy the discussion. Howdoes one gage what is intelligent? If you thinkI am wrong, fair enough. But unintelligent??

Kunjufu, no disrespect, I know you are a moderator, but you shouldn't try to put yourself in the position of God!

PS Please don't set your wrath upon me, I was merely, once again speaking my mind!

@FredBlackniceone.gif

@Camile thanks sis. Trust me Kunjufu like many of us would love to have the same serious debates you would like to have. But to defend my brother on principle. He is in a no win situation, because if he said otherwise people like me and others would be criticising him.

But issues always come up in another form. So hold your fire and no doubt it will come up in a form that you will have more people with you.

Fredniceone.gif

I know so manyÂ*beautiful,Â*hardworking, educated, conscious black female who are single. Why? it would seem that these women are being overlooked for the white females.

Why? Could it be that these beautiful black woman are rude, aggressive. materialistic and difficult. This is a growing trend in these type of threads. You could so easily have said you know many warm, gentle, friendly, hardworking, bubbly black females who cant find a man but you choose to highlight looks and education. A woman with a master's degree does not dserve a ''good'' black man anymore than a woman with 2 GCSE's. Yoou ought to remember that

lexi wrote


Young professional black sisters are growing up with a lack of positive black male roll models.Young black brothers lack eligibility to-wards our sister high expectations.YES ITS GOOD 4 SISTERS TO HAVE HIGH EXPECTATIONS BECAUSE THEY HAVE AMBITION-BLACK BROTHERS NEED TO RISE UP AND MEET THE REQUIREMENTS AND STOP COMPLAINING THAT SISTERS WANT TOO MUCH.

What are these so called requirements? House, car, money, degree, nice clothes. I would bet the little money I have that that is what you were referring to. Are these requirements - in the grand scheme of things - really important.

In the New Nation 2 weeeks ago a 29 YEAROLD WOMAN ws saying that she wouldnt go out with a man who shopped in Top Shop.He has to have the prada/nike style. 29 YEARS OLD.

My friend went to a club and was getting chatted up by this girl, who then try ask if he driving. He got her number sameways but deleted it because he felt insulted that she should ask such a question. Now I bet that girl has probably one of those why cant I get a black man mentailities


For those of you females who say black race is dying you have alot more to answer to thn us men. Its these good black men going off to non blacks because all these 'nice' black woman gravitate to the drug dealers, wannabe gangsters/rappers. Of what I've seen the wotless black guys have no problem whatsoever attracting black woman. Its the easygoing cool ones that are getting scared off in worrying numbers. ( Yes I'm worried as well)I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but if we are to attribute blame to somebody, look no further than yourselves'

@ Kunjufu

Thank you for your frank response, but I do feel you are talking to me as if I have commited the most henious of crimes. As I said before I didn't insult anyone!

If this is not the direction in which you want the BN to go, fair enough. But please tell me why threads such as 'oral sex' and 'phone sex' is acceptable (no disrespect to the person/s who started these threads, just used as examples)

It would seem that it is one rule for one and one rule for another,.

Anyway, I don't want to bang on about the subject, I accept your view as moderator. But I have to tell you that I do feel offended!

@ Camille

Not wishing to speak for Kunjufu (he is quite capable of doing that himself) but I was a little curious as to why you feel 'offended'.
Since Kunjufu was giving HIS view as to what he thinks about threads like these, something he is quite free to do as is any poster, why should you feel offended simply because those views do not concur with yours? Furthermore, since it was Soulsista who originated the thread, it would seem if anyone is to be offended it would be her.

The boring repetition of this particular subject is something that gets me more than anything and my attempts to elicit some understand as to the 'basis of soulsista's conclusions (to see if there could be some interesting angle to this) proved fruitless. Therefore, I can quite understand why some people may comment in a negative way to this topic.

However, the whole thing about discussion boards is that people will offer their comments, sometimes supporting a position sometimes opposing it. In other instances people may just ignore the thing altogether (as Soulsista did with my comments to her). This is all in the game of MB discussions and there should be no reason to get offended because people don't take the same line as you. Furthermore, you can’t deny them their right to say the subject is 'boring' or been done to 'overkill' if that is their opinion. In the same way people can’t deny your right to raise the subject.

I feel this subject has gone way past overkill and wish it could be raised and dealt with in a constructive way (if it has to be raised at all), but invariably it just turns out to be the same old regurgitations, whether its ‘white women/black men’ or ‘white men/black women’. Sure, it bores me but it doesn’t offend me because I am free to leave well alone.

Respect

@ Cashmoney

Thanks for you response, but it is as useful as the tissue which I have used to wipe my behind!

It would seem you want to turn this tread into the very thing that everyone wants to avoid ie male/female bashing!