@ native_son

I am all for giving credit where credit is due, so I have to say to your last 2 posts clp)clp) You said it well and much props to you.

Mind you I don't think this of all your contributions so be prepared for me to dis you (constructively of course ) when I think its warranted. niceone.gif

Respect

@backatya

bighairlolblkdevillol

Hey but I did it for charity! LOL!

@ FredBlack

You may feel Cashmoney comments were true, but I still think they were unecessary,

He also says in his comment.

For those of you females who say black race is dying you have alot more to answer to thn us men. Its these good black men going off to non blacks because all these 'nice' black woman gravitate to the drug dealers, wannabe gangsters/rappers. Of what I've seen the wotless black guys have no problem whatsoever attracting black woman. Its the easygoing cool ones that are getting scared off in worrying numbers. ( Yes I'm worried as well)I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but if we are to attribute blame to somebody, look no further than yourselves'

confused3

I truly wanted a constructive discussion, dissing removed. I am more than happy to see the argument from both sides.If Iam wrong, I appreciate being told, when someonechooses to disrespect me then I am less likely to listen.I have said thatblack women may have negative attributes, this cliqued responseis really annoying, I don't feel myself or my friends fit into this stereotypical box that we seem to be constantly forced into. It is really annoying!

@ Native_son

Welcome. I truly didn't predict this move!!!

You have written well, as usual, Yousaid:

'Sadly your diss_missal of this (Kwese) Brother and his concerns indicate that youmay notbe that type of sister.'

NOt sure whether or not this was directed as me, but I did not dismiss the points made by Kwese. I found his points to be extremely valid, however, in response I felt it was necessary to say:

'but what if you have little or no support, what if the effort is not enough to counteract the workings of the negative system in which we live.'

Also clp)atyour last entry - You know in some strange and perverse way, I'm actually getting to like you!

I wasn't even going to comment on this thread as it just seemed to be slightly repetitive and destructive to me. As someone pointed out this is a debating forum and the objective is to debate, but when that debate begins to resemble an attempt by certain individuals to simply cause conflict (I'm not referring to the person who started the thread or Camille), then thats where it starts to get boring and loses purpose.

Now we all had our amusement ostracising and ridiculing 'unattractive white gal' in the 'black men white woman' forum (including me), but that was a slightly less constructively worded and perceived post as opposed to this one, I dont think Soul sista's intention was to create another self-destructive, needless thread, but to gain valuable feedback and insight into the whys? whens? hows? ifs? and wheres? of the subject matter.

I am a black woman, I love and interact (sexually and romantically) exclusively with black men, I do not see that as unusual, wrong or untoward, as to be attracted to one's ownrace to me, is a natural notion. When I see white women and black men (especially unattractive wm) yeah I do feel negativity towards them I'm not gonna lie (its not to the extent where it would stop me sleeping at night, or that Id want to physically attack or dish out dirty looks etc, but I do feel it). The reasoning behind this negativity may be that Im asking myself 'couldn't this guy find a decent, caring, etc.... black woman to love and cherish? Whats so unappealing about bw that causes a man to disregard them as partners and prefer a wm? Also knowing the scorn and ultimate dislike that wm hold in regards to black women, I feel almost like me and my sisters have beenbetrayed (not gonna lie), and bm are giving them (wm) the means to metaphorically stick 2 fingers up at us. With black women I think there is also a slight feeling of rejection, just a few overall theories, nothing concrete, I may be right I may be wrong but its my perception of the situation.

@ Spice - ur condoning mixed relationships because you are participating in one but that doesn't mean you have to hark on about it at every instance you get. You have chosen to date outside ur race, whether wrong or right thats ur perogative, other bw (including myself) choose to date solely black men that is also a choice. This isa choice I can justify by retaining the knowledge that I love and admire my father, grandfather (not incestuously b4 u mention it)etc and feel only another black man is worthy ofthe receipt of that level of emotion from me......... I love my people as a whole and need to interact on a social, mental, spiritual, and sexual level with someone who I feel has similar descent and someone I can relate to. I do not think I could relate to a white man, I dont think we'd have all that in common, I do not believe I could or would open up to him and I do not think deep down I would trust him.

BUT THOSE ARE SIMPLY MY PERSONAL VIEWS AND OPINIONS AND NOTHING THAT I AM ATTEMPTING TO FORCE ON TO ANYONE, AND NOT AN ATTEMPTTO INFLUENCE ANYONE ELSE

@ Spice - not being disrespectful but I feel that you look down on or even scorn bw who solely deal with bm and I think you trivialise their reasons for doing so (Im not drawing this conclusion from this thread only, but from various ones that u've contributed to. Even if the thread has nothing whatsoever to do with sex, relationships etc you will find some way to mention that you date/f*** white (amongst other) men. Having said this I have had reason to agree totally with some of ur posts so Im not singling you out negatively or trying to be disrespectful towards you, just making some personal observations.

People, bottom line is this. I am happy with my BLACK man and Im sure many others are happy with their own black partners also. There are black men and women who are with non black partners of their choice. Really, negative views towards it or not, whether I agree or not, that is their choice. So me,although I do retain feelings regarding the matter, and do participate in discussions such as this, I concentrate on ME and MY man, and let others dictate their own destinys

One Love

@Camile. Fair point but it is how we handle issues, particularly delicate ones. Some generalisations apply and others do not. We take what is useful and dash the rest. Black man and woman issue is not one issue but multiple which affects different people in different ways. From the young boy in the play ground who sees black girls as to aggressive loud etc and no matter how he fancies them he choose to go where there is less drama and that is a real issue and a very very old one.

There are issues to do with race and class which we see most clearly amongt too many professional or educated women. They have foolishness in their heads and class based foolishness and idealism too. They have lists as long as the road about what they want and must have. But sis they don't have anything to really offer. There are issues to do with children, how they are used, come into this world. Men who abandon their children etc. Women often married or in long time relationships ,who suddenly get promoted, or go to school etc and start acting in ways which undermine their relationship. Because their man is suddenly an embarrasment and what job the woman has to make her feel that way.

Sister do you know how many of my peers highly experienced and regarded professional men who have been stitched up and dismissed for acting with integrity and doing what all self respecting black people would expect of men in that position. When they belief they have a right to depend on their women many of whom they are married to or been with long days, suddenly realise not only they can't but notice how they are being treated in disrespectful ways. I spoke at a meeting years ago about the experiences of professional black men and we had 7 brothers all my close friends who were dismissed literally at the same time.

We can go on. What knock on effect has that, for young men in terms of their motivation. So if they act like batty boy or whimps they can be tolerated, but when they flex like men and consistent with their professional roles, white man and woman and too many black women will move on them.

I came from the Employment Tribunal two weeks ago to support one of our close brothers, in a joke of a case, only to come home to receive an e-mail, from another close and important brother in our crew who is completing his doctorate and a manager in the youth services and one of the pioneers of some of the most radical programmes ever designed to aid black boys. Him and I pioneered many of the things people today are pushing as models of good practice but inferior to our orignals. The brother just got dismissed after a dispute at work. I will go before god and say I am not a nice person on particular things, but this is one of the nicest brothers you will ever meet in terms of upbrining conduct, values etc. One of the best fathers of my age group I have ever met. What private faults he has I am not in the posiiton to say.

Things could not get worse, the brother and his wife seperated due to her insistance. To this day nobody man or woman who know her can work out what is going through the woman's head. When he accepted things were finished and easily got another nice sister, things just get even worse with the his wife.

The source of the problem originally as we have been told. The brother found out, that his wife who was working part time, was lying to him about money and was stashing money away while he was doing two jobs to pay for a massive mortgage. He found out by accident one day.

He lives around the corner from me and we helped him do up the yard. But the price of his home is no joke and if I did not live here long time, would never take that kind of weight. So imagine how a decent man would feel, as like me he did not demand to know how much his wife earns, that is not his upbringing. He comes from good Jamaican stock where men look after their business. But that does not mean your wife has to hide things from you where money is concerned. All his brothers are married men to black women.

The woman is complaining the man is always working. Well surprise suprise. Money is a serious issue in all relationships, particularly black people who have less and have to fight hard for what we have. The woman clap the man with something in his head, drama, police.

Next thing he left the home, she will not allow him to see his children[all boys] and even sending message to the nursery that the man cannot pick up his kids. The white people said what kind of immature shit is that, as they know the man far more than her. He is a very active parent raising money for them and all kinds of things.

Can you find one memeber of her family to come and talk peace for children sake no, at least. They are more ignorant than she is, because they like too many fools believe good family means backing your own regardless. My sisters could not do that shit to their husbands because they would contact me, as eldest brother of my parents backhome and something would happen. Too many families are responisble for mess, because they have no moral leadership within their own ranks[male or female].


This is part of the reality. Sis imagine how we feel, if say we have a team of 12 of our best brothers, most committed, most eduated and skillful and at anyone time half of your core are in the type of positions mentioned above. We are dependent on their money and positive state of mind, so we can collectively carry out the work we have agreed on, to move our families and people in microcosim forward.

When I say core leaders, that means a brother who is skillfull enough to go anywhere in the world and set up a complete programme or organisational structure and involve plenty people by themselves. A proven leader. People who can teach/train/motivate and show people how to achieve things

Imagine how I feel and how many sleepness nights I have as principal leader of the whole team, thinking how to get the money to help those brothers out, give what support we can emotionally etc and still keep the work programme moving and within timescales. We give our word and make commitments both here and abroad that have to be honoured.

If it not for the fact that we have brothers who are big boys in the sense of the word,[financially independent, or who invest and save succesfully] who I can approach and given proven integrity, look for ways to ease the pressure on our troops, whether in terms of money,or other things we would be finished.


So there are so many issues compressed under black man/woman etc and when we all talk the same time we talk pass each other. People talk to what is a priority for them, what is burning them at that time in that place and context. We either agree to deal with one at the time and move on, or just anarchy and foolishness reigns.

But I think if there is honesty and real sincerity people can move this or any discussion to a higher level. That is what we all want and I think need.

When women talk about certain kind of men, I know it has nothing to do with me. I can engage, or choose not to. I can choose to help the person with their priorities, so in turn they can help me with mine.

@Native son. Good posts like Backatya said. Constructive.

Fredniceone.gif

*CUTIE* wrote:

@spice

Reading between the lines of what you say and your exchanges with those you believe to be women youread more like a lunatic white feminist.

A word of advice to Black women, if may take the liberty. Black Women and white women are not fighting the same fight. White women are fighting for equal partnership in the white family business that is - Kicking my and your Butt. When they get their equality they will be no different to white men.
__________________________________________________ ______________

If you are a black woman you sound very angry and I think I understand why.
Ialso think you missed my point. What I was trying to say is that until there is some reason for Black Folk living in countries like Britain and the US not to date outside the race, whether it is with white women or anyone else, noneof us has the right to label the other.

If we begin to work together in our own interests, Black Women and Black Men, I believe that would deter those who might be attracted to the idea of entering mixed relationships because they'll feel ashamed. Moreover when they see Black men/women working together harmoniously I believe it will raise the self esteem of all Blacks.

We will be proud to beBlack in a profound way, and more will want to contribute to our efforts towards advancement.

Until more Blacks are thinking this way instead of pointing the finger judgementally, I being as I am, a Black Man, but more simply human male, will get love love from wherever I can find it. Whether it is with a Black Woman or non-Black woman.

I don't think it's hypocritical to get angry at what happened to my female ancestors or to resent an image that reminds of their horrible experience, it's just human.

Neither did I say that I openly showed my disapproval of Black women dating outside the race, if I saw you with your white man it would betotally meaningless to me once I got past my initial revulsion.

You are absolutely right when you say that Black Men suffered becasue of the psychotic claims of some white women but what can any of us do as single individuals that will help us come to terms with our ancestors trauma.

We Diaspora Blacks have a lot of pain. There is so much rage and frustration borne out of thelimitations others have placed on our lives.

I think we must first acknowledge the crippling effect that slavery and colonization has had on all our lives and deal with the anger we all have to greater or lesser degrees.

We must be patient with each other and keep educating, teaching and comforting ourselves. Nobody else will do this for us. We must acknowlegde our Holokaust and celebrate our continuing surival of this ongoing tragedy.

But we must come out on the other side and start to build the world in our image and interests.

I am willing to do this are you?