I agree, which is why I do not agree that forcing our youth into the national service will help.

I believe such action is indicative of simply shipping our problems off to another community where we, if we were willing to do the work, could do the same job and better.

The national service would not IMO give the aforementioned youth the cultural framework or necessary level of self esteem that is necessary for them to not want to be 50 pence and not have their highest aspiration be a video on Channel U.

I see sending our youth to work for a nation that is not our own by instilling values in them that are not our own, as serving the interests of a people that are not our own.

Sending our children to be educated in the "proper" behaviours and inclinations in a non African institution I believe will not teach them how best to represent and benefit their own cultures and people, but will insure that rather than benefitting the 2% African populous, will inevitably teach them how best to benefit the 98% populous by switching their allegiance to the 98% non African populous of Britain that "saved" them from their negative behaviour.

It would help them compete in this environment but would they be Africans? If they are trained in the natural behaviours of a cultural group not their own, won't we have more BB Brian's than we know what to do with?

Is a dog that will not bark, will not howl and will not chase a cat, still a dog?


How much are we willing to give up for success defined by a community that is not our own?

Just my thoughts on the issue.

@Ras Ruben
you always have some good opinions wish i had enough time to dwell on this the national service stuff to work in a developing country was just an example and you right it should be engineered in a way that would benefit the community and make them resourceful to the country in general...
But you know something really got me this afternoon and its a follow up on what transgressed in the thread billionaire donates $50 million...saw on Oprah some black gentleman wish i had taken down his name built up this multi million complex not only to take care of the education but the health of black kids from a section of Harlem .....What came to mind was how hard must it be to cater for the well being of your child simple things that is part and parcel of human socialization...must we wait for this messiah to tell us make sure your kids go to school get medical insurance ...what if this dude hadn't come along ay!!
If the school is not up to standard why can't we petition the proper authorities why not carry out campaigns why just give up and let them get away with it...why can't the community say you know what lets gather our pennies and build and finance our own schools...so many things on so many levels can be done but some prefer the status quo blame the system for everything...
Yes we admit the YT system had engineered a system that exploits the tribal differences between us and coupled with defining us as culturally bankrupt but its a new dawn we need to start taking care of our business for real !!

Greetings,

Yes I agree we need to start taking care of our business, that is a must, but that would mean we step away from flapping our collective gums and pontificating over issues that could be spoken of a lot less; starting to work towards our futures is a better way towards our progress IMO.

I start with myself. I do not intend to have children and not be able to look after them. I would prefer to have children when I leave for good but I'm not sure I'll be one to wait as I don't want to be one of those people who continue to defer that process until it's too late. In order to prepare for those children, I read like I'm about to go blind. If I'm on the bus I have a book, on the tube i have a book, if I have five minutes to sit down I have a book. Even at my most busy I'm reading to ensure I have the resources to either suppliment my children's education at a public school or to be able to teach them fully (home schooling which is more my want) until such a time as I see our community has their own institutions devoted to a fair and unbiased view of education. I know however that it starts with me and if I can't help my child with their homework, if I can't help them with their knowledge of their culture, that is a failing on my part and one I will not endure.

I also know that there are a number of saturday schools running for our people that are not being funded well enough by the community and are not being utilised in the way that they should be. Unfortunately whilst I'm still a student I cannot do as much as I would like to do to help but I don't see why our working community hasn't done more.

When I speak to Toyin, one of the main things he stresses and which I agree with is our need to get back to institutionalising rites of passage programmes into our communities. For many of my generation (who are refered to as the youth) who are behaving in a less than satisfactory manor, they would benefit from a simple African tradition that instills cultural viewpoints of manhood (as this is about men) rather than them having to pick it up from MTV Base. However for every ten people I see online or at community meetings saying they are going to work to impliment these things, I see one African behind the scenes actually doing what is necessary and those who are actually doing something, are becoming heavy hearted due to the strain of having a community which endulges more in verbal diarrhoea than actual action.

Although it is important for us to understand the role of white supremacy in our lives, I see that as having little relevance to our ability to work towards our people's elevation collectively. I believe we need to cut down on the information forums and start getting more people working on projects for our elevation, rather than carting off our children to be raised by the media and non African institutions.

One book I think is a necessity is Oba T'Shaka's book, 'return to the African mother principle of male and female equality' then we need to look at some Amos N Wilson books like 'Understanding Black Adolescent Male Violence: Its Remediation and Prevention' and 'Black-On-Black Violence: The Psychodynamics of Black Self-Annihilation in Service of White Domination' all which are very solution based books, and rather than just talk about it further, trying to reinvent things that have already been invented, we need to impliment the solutions that have been set out for us.

We also have UK based workers who are very solution based like Paul Ifayomi Grant so everyone here should check him out. He even has his contact details on his webpage and wants to work with the community so nobody should be afraid to contact him. His book 'Saving Our Sons' is about this very topic matter and has nothing but rave reviews.

We can talk all we want but when we're ready to do the work, we'll have little need to talk.

Hotep Bro

OK, I think you're reading a great many things that aren't there and you seem to have a highly underdeveloped view of the place Africans have in Britain.

Lets start with the trouble our people (which is funny as you recognise them as our people but not as having nationhood as a part of that collectve OUR) are in your mind causing in this place. Are you aware that over 90% of all crime committed in Britain is committed by young caucasian males? Are you also aware that the gun and knife capital of Britain is in Glasgow? (I wonder how many Africans live there?) Are you aware that you are much more likely to be stabbed or shot by a caucasian wherever you go in Britain? But you believe the media hype that our people are a severe cause of disharmony. Well that's OK for you but don't pretend that you know better than me and that you are an athority on what reality is because it is simply your belief, your reality that stipulates that our youth have any debt to pay to our host nation.

I never once stated that they had to leave this place to do anything. I am a Pan Africanist but I don't think everyone should go back to Africa, that is unrealistic and more importantly idealistic. So you should try speaking on what I actually say rather than talking on points I haven't actually made and assuming you know my position. It is clear that you do not.

For the most part the youth you speak of have done a disservice to the African community so digging holes for the benefit of the host nation, building roads that Africans for the most part will not drive on and dying for a nation of people who don't care about them is rediculous and could only be a suggestion of a person who through fear and a close to sexual adoration of the host nation would suggest for his people. It is the African community who has suffered this disservice and so it is to the African community who any percieved debt should be payed. If you want to go and spend your life brown nosing caucasians be my guest but nobody in my age group is going to follow your suggestion.

If the problem is of our own community, what makes you think our people are in any condition to work with another community if they haven't sorted their own state out? Haven't you ever heard that one should not invite themselves to other people's BBQ if they haven't got their own backyard in order first.

I shared my opinion and as you can see my opinion is not based upon what i see in BBC news but of careful honing of my opinion, through understanding of my people's greatest scholars and the greatest minds of the world in general, also my personal experience of the world. I will require you show me a little more than an uninformed opinion if I am going to take your opinion on reality seriously. Take some notes from Fred B, he'll tell you what is necessary to come at me in the way you have, because you won't be able to hold your own approaching me in the authoritative manor you have unless you are equally as intelligent as he is (and he'll tell you that's not possible). For someone who has tried to tell others that they should hold your opinion up as equal to theirs, you should try and take your own advice and not try to vilify another for an opinion which is at it's least equal to yours.

PS, saying our youth as you have, suggests that we are a people, and that we in an essence have a nation. I didn't say African people here aren't a nation within a nation but pretending that we are all one big nation who gets along because you and becky have had a few runs in the sack isn't realistic and doesn't represent an accurate picture of what Britain is. Remember Britain is not London alone.

Is that the best you can do, a quip at my spelling. For your information I was able to spell at the level of a 26 year old when i was 16. That's ten years ahead of my expected ability level. I also have a myriad of other achievements which I could reel off for you but that would be ego boosting and I'm not interested in that.

What you should be focussing on is the fact that it took me less than ten minutes to reel off that answer to your post and a single spelling along the way is the only objection you could muster.

Or you could start posting a more productive post than, "we should work to death for caucasians to make them happy". And you might also want to base your opinion of what our people should do to work towards a more productive future on more than popular media and your individual experience. Others would be more inclined to take your opinion to be more than pontification of a pre-pubescent child if you did.

(See how it feels when someone tries to vilify you, when you choose to work on other terms, I will also, until then, enjoy)

1 If they are responsible for such an immeasurable amount of crime, and if you have some knowledge of sociology, are responsible for a great deal more unreported crime, what makes you think our youth should owe them anything at all, especially when the crimes are almost exclusively perpetrated against our own community? And since when did our elders deny that reality? Think about your answer to this.

2. You seem to shock easily. I should hope you are sitting down, you don't want to get a stroke now. Why should our youth care that they are enjoying the so called fruits of this nation, which are financed by criminal activity all over this planet and forced impoverishment of non caucasian people's. I definitely don't care about having a healthcare system that hasn't been necessary since I stopped eating their nasty food, an education system that is full of lies and eurocentrism, access to entertainment that has yet to project my community in a proper light and social services that are the epitome of what is wrong with faceless bureaucracy. I really don't see what there is to be thankful for seeing as plenty of what Africans consume here, is directly linked to the robbing of another African somewhere else on the globe. When the day comes that i can say nothing here is created on the backs of another African somewhere else, I'll be glad not to use anything they make. Until then I'm taking what's owed.

3. I provided myself my opportunities in education because i made sure that I was as good as i could be. My mother worked for everything I had and is responsible for everything I have. I didn't get anything I didn't earn nor did anyone else with African heritage here. If you begged for what you got and they out of generosity gave you what you have then you have every right to be thankful to them but I work for what i get, I don't owe caucasians piss all.

4. If you try to live by that mantra, then I can hold you to it. Why waste the bandwidth with that contradiction.

5.Only you one think there is a debt to pay as if our people don't work for what we get so I don't know why you're asking me what debt I think needs to be payed and in what way when there is no debt owed.

Yes you also took the time to edit out your mistake which went a little something like this:

"now for a seriously reply"

Yep, I noticed. That's karma for you.

Look, you have plenty of time to be online but I don't so i'll be off for the night, I have better things to do with my evenings. You are welcome to sit here trying to convince people with the ability to think that any of our people owe caucasians anything but I'll have to reply to your waste man talk another time.

Good luck with begging for acceptance in a nation that doesn't want you.

@RasRuben
2 excellent points people of African ancestry should have at the back of their mind I was thinking of this when i read @Chickenleg said we should be grateful..grateful!!

I really don't see what there is to be thankful for seeing as plenty of what Africans consume here, is directly linked to the robbing of another African somewhere else on the globe.

I provided myself my opportunities in education because i made sure that I was as good as i could be

@Chickenleg...said
The resources you happily take, without a thought of giving back to the state that provides so much for you, are not "owed" to you, the point is these opportunities wouldnt exist if you lived in Africa, unless you were in the top 1%. Be greatful that you have access to such opportunities, and always think of the alternative.

Yes we should take full advantage of the education system and opportunities at our behest but be grateful !!.......however @RasRuben more than gave the perfect counter punch to your overall notion....as you can tell there are some high achievers on this forum

I really don't see what there is to be thankful for seeing as plenty of what Africans consume here, is directly linked to the robbing of another African somewhere else on the globe
and
I provided myself my opportunities in education because i made sure that I was as good as i could be[/i]

^
Yes massa!!...you know I thought you were on to something tangible but you just coming with jokes so all i can do is humour you ...
And who's to say my parents didn't pay for my education....assumptions assumptions...
Two parent family grounded assimilated into society but i'm not naive or blind to the injustice to our people here and around the world
I don't know you but your inferences always have a Eurocentric tone to it...you sound like one of those people who got some education to get paid fair enough but when it comes to properly applying that education to every scenario its obviously way too much hard work...