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BNV Managing Editor
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Posts: 16,059
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Belly of the beast, United Kingdom
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17-01-08, 08:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Watcher
Just to temper the consensus growing here I think we are socialised in such terms long before we get to tweenage prepubscent time looking at girlie mags.
The famous "girl like me" piece and it's later repetitions all use girls and boys of a much younger age, and they already prefer the white dolls and models. The damage is done way before you see naked women in ****o dude.
The white girlie mags thing just works out that way because 99% of **** is white. Everything else is niche **** and requires one to go out of their way.
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Watcher I think you're refering to the famous Clark & Clark doll experiment done in America in the 60's when they gave each child a preference to having either a BLACK doll or a white one.. and i think all or most picked the white doll.. Because if memory serves this was considered the norm and most desirable...
I think i'd also add to your comments Watcher that when i was growing up...Miss UK, Miss world were still BIG events that was watched as an EVENT ie the whole family watched at peaked time.. and I remember that the Press went big on it too... and it was always case that the African contestants were a bit of a Joke, and they had absolutely no chance.. even when miss Jamaica won..she was near white.. so the imprinting was clear WHITE women were THE most desirable asian second and blacks a distant last...
African heart, African mind
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Village Veteran
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Posts: 12,164
Join Date: May 2004
Location: London, , United Kingdom
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17-01-08, 08:25 PM
Urgh I remember those Miss "wherever" contests as well.
btw that doll experiment is repeated quite often and usually with the same results.
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BNV Managing Editor
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Posts: 16,059
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Belly of the beast, United Kingdom
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17-01-08, 08:33 PM
On further thinking...has anyone noticed that when the Media talks about the 'perfect' male/female..that they always white... when they have the top ten most desirable men and women...you might, and i mean might get one black person in the top ten..but never top...in my experience and i actually think things are better TODAY than they were back in the day..
African heart, African mind
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Villager
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Posts: 329
Join Date: Aug 2007
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17-01-08, 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DtotheJ
Yes you did ,sir....you said I was making the same argument that Cleaver was making in Soul On Ice...and you highlighted one section of my post to reinforce that.
It's like you comparing me to a cobra....and then saying that you're not calling me a snake
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Saying that you were making the same argument as Cleaver is not the same as saying that you're full of crap. 
As far as I am concerned - the black man's seed is GOLD and should not be abandoned wrecklessly © Femergy
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Village Veteran
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Posts: 12,164
Join Date: May 2004
Location: London, , United Kingdom
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17-01-08, 08:39 PM
Kunjufu
They actually go one further these days. They claim to use "scientific studies" and surveys to talk about the "perfect face". And yes it is always invariably white with a skinny roman nose, thin lil lips and long straight (usually blond) hair.
Fair enough for a news article to claim it as their standard of beauty but the truly offensive and disturbing thing is that they claim it's "universal". Giving this version of beauty scientific and mass public cross cultural appeal which simply isnt true. The last example of this I saw was in the newspaper on Tuesday.
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Villager Senior
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Posts: 1,767
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: , ,
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17-01-08, 09:12 PM
Blimey!!...thought i was living in a true 'multi-cultural' society baffles me though how every year the FHM sexiest list is always topped and comcprised of YT...the funniest one though is when YT girls win 'rear of the year'...that injustice should warrant a jail sentence for real!!...lol!!
one will need a bigger lie to cover the first one
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Villager Leader
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Posts: 5,962
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: , ,
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18-01-08, 04:52 PM
Other than the fact that they use sexual imagery to advertise and promote consumer goods (even to children which should be illegal) )don't people think its kind of normal for caucasians to prefer their own phenotype? Not that they have the right to dehumanize our own but at times I think we suffer from some kind of unhealthy attachment to caucasians and their culture as though we expect from them. Its their country I don't want or expect them to be showing butt naked black women on Tv any more than BET or MTV base does. Not that I don't want to see more butt naked black women on tv, don't get me wrong but would anyone expect the social norm in a caucasian country to be a dark skinned black African woman?
The first woman I saw nekked was my momma btw don't think you can beat that for conditioning, people base their relationships off of a parental influence. Ie; Any future woman of mine is going to have to fill a motherly role which would no doubt be based off of said parental influence, not to sound grossed out but its true. Problem is that our women feel as though they have to fit into a caucasian mold and not an African one so too many of us feel as though we want a caucasian momma over a black one all abieted (sp) by social conditioning. The same would apply to caucasians living in Africa although it would probably 'herd' them more as they have problems in that regard and would refuse to fit in as they do in south africa.
"Everything is Dual; everything has poles; everything has its pair of opposites; like and unlike are the same; opposites are identical in nature, but different in degree; extremes meet; all truths are but half-truths; all paradoxes may be reconciled."-- North African Wisdom
Last edited by Black Lion; 18-01-08 at 05:01 PM.
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Villager Senior
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Posts: 3,069
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: , New Jersey, USA
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18-01-08, 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melissa
So, is this true for just us living in the Uk or US or all over the world?
For some reason West Indians and Africans do like the lighter shade of things in many cases.
Is this because they had the same start in life and being in those countries it is even more of a Taboo for them?
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Interesting point.
and the word I should have used earlier was "curious" not "fascinated.
I think a person's preferences eventually come naturally.....but with the wide amount of white adult material out there....older men, of all colors who grew up in US.......or any other place where whites are in charge... that the "curiosity" is there...
My relatives who grew up in Haiti and moved here as teens..ALL dated white women. I couldn't wrap my mind around it, but hard for me to judge person who grew up in different place than me......it startles me more when dude who has similar experiences/background does it. |
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Villager
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Posts: 159
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: , ,
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18-01-08, 09:21 PM
@The Watcher
Yes, you are right, notions about beauty and nobility combined with race are established long before a young boy ever experiences an erection. However, let’s not conflate Standards of Beauty with Sexual Arousal Triggers. Yes, yes, one could argue that they are one in the same or that one controls the other. Still, when I think of my beauty standards, questions of shape, color, facial structure, etc., come to mind. When I think of Sexual Arousal Triggers, I think of images, body parts, positions, situations, clothes and at the risk of exposing my own triggers, relations of power.
On a much less personal note (I think), the power dynamics that are at play when we witness or experience sex or sexual imagery for the first time, imprint a frame of reference that can trigger our desire in our adult life. No, I do not make this point dogmatically or absolutely but generally and with an understanding that sexual desire is not the kind of thing that can really be pinned down. I know a woman who was molested as a girl who now, as an adult, can only experience climax through extremely submissive sexual scenarios. I know men who saw so many dirty movies as boys that their current lust for variety and multiple women excludes them from any chance of monogamy.
All things considered, depending upon your early childhood experiences and the predominance of a particular race of woman in those experiences, you can either develop a passion or repulsion for that race. Similarly, the manner in which the woman was portrayed, submissive, humiliated, violated, revered or honored will also influence your desire.
Lastly, in spite of everything I have said above, I must also add that my Sexual Arousal Triggers have changed over time but my lack of interest in the white women who dominated the sexual imagery from my childhood has not changed. So, the foundation of my sexual desire was shaped long ago.
Peace!
Last edited by Neferkare; 18-01-08 at 11:01 PM.
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Villager
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Posts: 159
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: , ,
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18-01-08, 09:22 PM
@Kunjufu
Yes, I know of the test you referred to above. A 17-year-old film student named Kiri Davis repeated a test from the 1950s. In Davis' test, 15 of the 21 children said that the white doll was good and pretty, and that the black doll was bad. This test revealed how White Supremacy and media have shaped and continue to shape Black values of beauty and ideas about morality/nobility.
The most disturbing element of the test for me, however, was not the results but the age of the filmmaker. At 17, she put both Blacks and whites to shame. Whites should be embarrassed that their cultural standards and media expressions continue to contribute to the decline of an entire race of people and that, in spite of arguments to the contrary the whole discussion about freedom and liberty still does not consider the lives of the oppressed. On other hand, Blacks in America should be ashamed. This young lady is a filmmaker and not a social scientist. Nonetheless, she was able to manage a sound experiment with “startling” and seemingly irrefutable results. Where are our leading Black social scientists? Why had no one from our academic community conducted the study at a formal level? Why have there been no policy implications attached to the studies of past and present? Who within our people even has the power to transform the results of the film/study into a strategy that can deliver our children from this living hell? What the f-ck have we been doing with our so-called freedom when it has not produced protection for our progeny? The obvious results of the film/study can only be categorized by what the Strategic planners call “low-hanging fruit” but we have failed to pick it from the tree in spite of more than 50 years to do it. Absurd and shameful! Where is the outrage?!
Holla!
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Villager
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Posts: 159
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: , ,
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18-01-08, 09:23 PM
@BlackLion
Yes, I think you are correct, “its kind of normal for Caucasians to prefer their own phenotype.” I would not expect the ethnically homogeneous Chinese to show any other images than those reflecting ethnic Chinese. I would feel the same way if I were in Saudi Arabia. But, in mixed culture societies such as London or the US, or even in mixed color societies such as India or Thailand, there is a very real problem with one culture/color imposing its view of the world, beauty, etc., upon the other culture. Over time, the submissive culture will most certainly develop internal conflicts, collectively and individually, as their children are assimilated by the dominant culture.
In a place such as Thailand, there is little room to make such an argument; there are no cultural principles from which to ground your discourse. However, in the US, our Constitution is filled with a host of allegedly “inalienable rights” that should not be trampled under foot by any entity. Every American is supposed to have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but can it truly be argued that every African descendant experiences these rights at the same level as whites? How is happiness achieved at the same level when your color or culture is portrayed as inferior?
Respect will never be freely given; it must be seized!
Regards!
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BNV Managing Editor
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Posts: 16,059
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Belly of the beast, United Kingdom
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18-01-08, 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melissa
Standard for me to do this in front of my children, however i questioned it when a recently arrived young ghanian expressed outrage when i told him i was oft naked in front of my boys, he even claimed that I was traumatising my children and that it was not a common thing to do where he came from.....
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Sorry Mel..but he was talking utter bolloxs...how can a child be traumatised by their own MOTHER!!? If you were pole dancing in front of them, I could understand, but being natural is not wrong.... | |
