Do you blame yourself for choosing wrong?

Or do you feel that things just didn't work out and that's that?

Relationships in general, not necessarily divorced men. Self blame is the quickest way to remedy - most people will blame themselves, whether they do so in public or not (saving face) is another thing.

If I was to attribute blame its people hanging about when they know how you stay. I found out about the people around me, most if not all of the stuff they would throw my way they always knew...for the most part it was me who told them.

For all my virtues the most lacking is patience but if I blame myself for one thing more than any it's taking the love for Africa amongst our people for granted...probably the biggest miscalculation of my life...could never have imagined I was so far off the mark...where I thought it was simply a matter of spreading the word missionary style, the reality is the hatred is ingrained, it doesn't even run in the blood, it IS the blood.

Ok it cost me the boys and the family but if I've lost them for anything then my heart is warm knowing it was the price paid for the love and pride I feel for that land. Jah Jah guide!

Listen to Fancy Make up by John Holt - and listen keeenly!!

Also I think it is extremely important to distinguish between the men (and women) who see marriage as a culturally virtuous rite of passage as opposed to those men (and women) who see it as some kind of promotion from a babyfather/mother (a culture in its own right) - again blame myself for trying to put the former into the circle of the latter - in this sense this is probably the wrong site (dare I say people) to ask such a question as many are probably still going through that promotion phase which has natural ramifications on how things are interpreted.

Indeed the more appropriate question would be separated babyfathers/mothers, do you blame yourself. I know many come here as some kind of safe haven, just like going to a blues dance....a kind of escapism...which is why many subjects are taboo...sorry for spoiling your fun. Got babylon daughters trying to test the nyabinghi, I mean how can you try dis the ras who fears no mass much less masse, crash you mus crash. Oops, sorry, village forgive me...a slight relapse there...please, I'm nearly over the finish line

In money monkey situations like this, other than naivety, what blame lies at the mans door?

Wives of highly-paid men are rushing into divorce in case the recession leads to a reduced settlement, according to lawyers.

Wives Of City Workers Rush To Divorce To Beat Credit Crunch |Sky News|Business

it would be nice to read what others have to say on this
good question by the way

I blame myself....was not prepared and no patience....

she wanted to continue I didn't...when i realized and tried to reconcile she was done....

children suffered much....

meknow - patience isn't my strongest asset but what did you find you were having to be patient for.....I kind of took certain expectations of a black woman for granted, things you can't be waiting on so called big people to learn, like having no roots and how that manifests itself in how the children are raised. Worse if these women recognise themself as independent, this straight away should ring alarm bells as this is basically a self declaration that they do not need to abide by you or anyone elses philosophy, not even the almighty. In my case in her competitive babymomma stupor she could not be seen to be 'begging' the man she begged to marry her and choos to seek solace amongst my enemies, men she would otherwise consider to be wotliss.

Many of the differences I encountered I would have expected from a non-black which is why some inter-racials work out because that same expectation just isn't there.....or is there for example bland dinners

Still, my friend just broke up with a sista, after the honeymoon period her true money monkey colours were exposed for what they are but then he was once married to a white woman and is totally convinced it isn't a colour thing, it's a woman thing....and for those who the cap fit don't even have no shame about running down the buck. I say cap fits as I know of at least one woman who divorced and left the money monkey argument to the man i.e. it was never about money for her but then he was an accountant.

The survival mentality is something quite serious as well, many have grown up in some battter batter situations so all they know is how to survive, values don't come into it just give them the money even at the expense of the virtue of the kids.

I was impatient in our growing together. My expectations were too demanding and without compromise and visa versa.

It does not happen over night. Love is shown by acts of selflessness. Being willing to sacrafice yourself for the other.

This is lost in today's society...

Well most if not all my sacrifices were under the illusion they were for the benefit of the wider society which contradicts everyone who is looking out for themself. I admit I was very independent growing up but soon appreciated there is no room for independence when it comes to family and the broader community.....but as you say, what is lost is lost and lost soon becomes the new found i.e. normal.

The need to survive breeds hustlers, it's what this society is all about now, survival - damn my ex even went as far as trying to secure her independence by way of marriage, had to divorce her just to find out what she asked me to marry her for as it soon became apparent it wasn't for my values. It was like living with a plank of wood, no conversation, no shared culture real deadstock business, yet still expected to get romance lol.

What I find ironic is the amount of women who have declared they love me but don't love the African values that as far as I'm concerned make me what I am....what is it then they love about me? - so here again, I blame my self for misplaced beliefs that a woman is looking at what I represent as opposed to the superficial materialisation of how that representation is manifested - i.e. the career, house, car, ambition and how I carry myself is nothing without the values behind them, those on the outside and my enemies are the ones I expect to see me for the car I drive.

Must say one thing though, now with a babymomma and children out a road there just seems to be so many women up for grabs. i was totally blinkered to all of this before, it was one wife one family but now I can see where most brothas only see pu$$y.

For the record yes I have heard all the stuff from people who say surely after so many years I should have known but let me take these forums as an example; you know when you ask certain questions which makes a thread go dead quiet, well my bias towards unity made me give the benefit of the doubt that this was peoples way of saying 'the answer is a no brainer' and it was me insulting their intelligence by actually asking such a 'ridiculously obvious' question. Now I know the reality is this is the sign of denial and the questions are not answered because of what people are running away from. That lesson cost me two boys.

What do you mean when you say culturally virtuous rite of passage?

I am not a know it all but I do pick up on two things immediately.

What was your marriage based on? Why did you decide to marry her and you she; sex, money, love, advantage of some sort, freedom...etc

none of those things will sustain a marriage not one.

Love is a decision and not a feeling. To love is to decide to do it. You can fall asleep tonight feeling one way and awake over in the night after some meditation and decide that i don't feel the same way. I am sure that the conditions you mentioned above were not the initial conditions that led to your accepting the fact that you wanted to spend your life with her.

And declaring love does not mean much. Love have to be applied each and every moment. The bible mentions that love covers the multitude of sin. Love makes you patient, thoughtful, romantic, caring, giving, willing to sacrifice....

when things change like the body shape, complexion, the face and other things that attracted you, love makes you remember what was done when things were different.

My present wife is very out spoken. She has a complex that she wants to be independent and do things on her own. At first I tried to reason with her and she only balked and growled. rather than go through a disaster and divorce. I began to calm her down when ever we had differences of opinions. I would simply tell her what I felt about that action. She would go right on ahead and slam into the wall. At first she would not say anything and would go to others for help recovering. But after so much she came to me and asked if we could talk. We did and she admitted that she was rebellious and should have listened to me in most cases.

I explained to her that I wanted to remain married to her and as long as the things she was doing did not directly affect me that I would allow her to butt her head against the wall and let her make independent decisions. Gradually she began to ask me about how I would do this or that.

Now we discuss it and look at it from my perspective as well as hers. We come to a conclusion and go for it and if it fails we come together and see it through.

Is our marriage perfect, heck no, but we work at it. We do not allow outside interferences to come between us ever. We have worked hard on staying married and it is beginning to pay off. We married in '91.