I'm not sure if this is relevant to the roots forum so if not mods lease feel free to move it

Anyways, I was reading about black people in England and howwe've beenhere since the 16th century, some eevn earlier. So anyways, I waswondering if anyone knows anyone who's root in this country go back centuries. Just asking out of curiosity

Any repllies will be appreciated

mmm it seems ok to me.

what i have found on the bbc history site is that black people go further back to the 12th century some holding high status in society. it may be worth looking for descendants Olaudah Equiano.. he was a slave who bought his freedom for £40 and settled in England marrying an english woman named susanna cullen and had two daughters. it may be worth trying to trace hsi people though i guess they may be all white now. cant think of anyone else. i am sure places like Bristol and Liverpool which were the top slave ports besides London must have an indiginous population with family ties from way back

i hope that helps somewhat

I am the only one that has ever wondered what happen to the slaves in England we all know slaves were taken to America and their decendents are the black people currently there now African Americans, but I 'm pretty sure England had slaves too, what happened to them? did they get sent back or what? Cos it wouldseem to me that that black people only in 60's on that boat Windrush, what happened to guys like Equaniano etc,

do you know any black person wuth family they can trace back to slavery in England the 18th century?

did they intermarry with white folk cos if that the case some people in England are not as pure as they claim.

This is not my information, it comes from another site... but it seems that some of those who were here in Elizibethan times were expelled...

info from http://www.shaksper.net/archives/2004/0163.html
I came across an interesting site on the internet entitled Shakespeare
and Race (ed. Catherine M. S. Alexander and Stanley Wells)
http://assets.cambridge.org/05217704...21770467WS.pdf that has
a discussion of Moors/Africans in Elizabethan England. It seems that
there was a Moorish ambassador to Elizabeth's court who was painted in
1600. There was also something called the Barbary Company led by Earls
of Leicester and Warwick, and some merchant adventurers named Tomson who
were in contact with the Barbary Coast from whence Leo Africanus, the
model for Othello, probably hailed. The intro also points out that Iago
is short for Santiago and St. James was known by Elizabethan audiences
as "St. James the Moor-killer." Anyway, the intro also cites Barbara
Everett's contention that Elizabeth issued a proclamation expelling
"negars and blackamoors" from England (p. 10b). And another site
(http://www.uiowa.edu/~c008g001/hando...blackamoor.pdf) has
several pictures and a mention of the Moorish ambassador, too.

I can't lay my hands on any other mention of the proclamation expelling
Africans from England or the date, but I'll keep on looking.

Ruth Ross

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ruth Ross <evieross@comcast.net>
Date: Wednesday, 21 Jan 2004 08:42:47 -0500
Subject: 15.0146 Shakespeare Blacks and Jews
Comment: RE: SHK 15.0146 Shakespeare Blacks and Jews

Further research turned up the following from a site called "Black
Presence: Asian and Black History in Britain 1500-1850" at
http://www.pro.gov.uk/pathways/black.../elizabeth.htm :

"But while Elizabeth may have enjoyed being entertained by Black people,
in the 1590s she tried to expel them from her realm. In 1596 she wrote
to the lord mayors of major cities noting that there were 'of late
divers blackmoores brought into this realm, of which kind of people
there are already here to manie...'. She ordered that 'those kinde of
people should be sente forth of the land'.

Elizabeth made an arrangement for a merchant, Casper van Senden, to
deport Black people from England. In 1596 she licensed him to deport 89
Black people to Spain and Portugal, in exchange for 89 English
prisoners, held in those countries, whom (it is said) he had brought
back to England at his own expense.

No doubt van Senden intended to sell these people. But this was not to
be, because masters of Black workers - who had not been offered
compensation - refused to let them go. In 1601, Elizabeth issued a
further proclamation expressing her 'discontentment by the numbers of
blackamores which are crept into this realm...' and again licensing van
Senden to deport Black people. It is doubtful whether this second
proclamation was any more successful than the first.

Why this sudden, urgent desire to expel members of England's Black
population? It was more than a commercial transaction pursued by the
queen. In the 16th century, the ruling classes became increasingly
concerned about poverty and vagrancy, as the feudal system - which, in
theory, had kept everyone in their place - finally broke down. They
feared disorder and social breakdown and, blaming the poor, brought in
poor laws to try to deal with the problem.

In the 1590s the harvests repeatedly failed, bringing hunger, disease
and a rapid increase in poverty and vagrancy. Elizabeth's orders against
Black people were an attempt to blame them for wider social problems.
Her proclamation of 1601 claimed that Black people were 'fostered and
relieved here to the great annoyance of [the queen's] own liege people,
that want the relief, which those people consume'. The proclamation also
stated that 'most of them are infidels, having no understanding of
Christ or his Gospel'.

It may be the case that many (although by no means all) Black people
were Muslims (of North African origin). If so, it seems that the queen
was playing on their difference from Protestant England to assert that
they were not welcome. Whether they were actually more likely to be in
poverty than Whites is much more doubtful. What is clear is that they
were being used as a convenient scapegoat at a time of crisis.

Nor is it probable that Elizabeth's efforts to deport them had much
success. The historian James Walvin concludes that 'Blacks had become
too securely lodged at various social levels of English society to be
displaced and repatriated.'"

Hope this helps.
Ruth Ross

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: Colin Cox <colin@willandcompany.com>
Date: Wednesday, 21 Jan 2004 1134 -0800
Subject: 15.0146 Shakespeare Blacks and Jews
Comment: Re: SHK 15.0146 Shakespeare Blacks and Jews

Don Bloom asks:

"Africans had been expelled from England during Shakespeare's time."
Could I have a little more detail on that?"

In the mid 70's (1570's) Elizabeth had a troupe of black musicians and
dancers in her court. She also had a black maidservant. There is a
portrait, by Marcus Gheeraerts the Elder, portraying this group
performing for the court.

In 1596, Elizabeth ordered all the lord mayors of major cities to deport
the Africans. She noted:

'of late divers blackmoores brought into this realm, of which kind of
people there are already here to manie... those kinde of people should
be sente forth of the land'.

The merchant Casper van Senden was given a contract to remove the
Africans from England. He was initially licensed to remove 89 black
people to Portugal and Spain. They were an exchange for the ransom of 89
English prisoners held in Spain. Interestingly, the 'owners' of the
black workers refused to yield them up.

In 1601, Elizabeth again passed an edict. She expressed her . .

"discontentment by the numbers of blackamores which are crept into this
realm..."

Casper van Senden was again contracted to remove the Africans. He seems
to have had little success.

Why did she want the Africans gone? Oh, how times stay the same! The
Africans were being blamed for the bad harvests of the 1590's. This
'newest group of immigrants' were to blame for the rise in vagrancy,
disease and poverty caused by the failing economy; sound familiar?

The 1601 proclamation claimed:

"fostered and relieved here to the great annoyance of her majesties own
liege people, that want the relief, which those people consume".

And here's the capper:

"most of them are infidels, having no understanding of Christ or his
Gospels".

But Africans had become incorporated into too many wealthy households as
maids and servants, musicians and performers to be let go, and so they
remained.

If you recall, James VI, when king of Scotland, had employed an African
to pull the chariot at the celebration of his eldest son's (Henry) birth
in 1594. James had been 'afeard' at the thought of a lion pulling the
chariot and thus gave birth to the rustic scenario employed by
Shakespeare in Midsummer Night's Dream.

-- Colin Cox Artistic Director Will & Company

Agape wrote:
Yes, my Great Grandmother was born to an African freed slave in late 1800's in Bristol

I think most of the remaining slaves were absorbed into the native white population and today most of their descendants today are visibly white. However some of their descendants are white, as we can tell from the post above^^^

Femergy

Interesting and quite credible about your Great Great Gm

There have been substantial number of black people and their descendants in the major UK ports since the 18th century.

Inthe city of my birth, Bristol, wealthy 19th centuryWest Indian planters flaunted theirriches and built their grand houses particularly in the Clifton Area...around the significantly named Blackboy Hillleading down to Whiteladies Road. The white West Indians were not particularly liked, they were noted to be uncultured, flamboyantarrogantshow offsandas status symbols they brought over their black slaves from the Caribbean as pages, footmen, horsemen and other servants.

Of course since slavery was not legal in England they were no longer strictly slaves...however many tended to be tied to households which would have provided food, warmth and other security in much the same way as the poorly paidwhite servants whose status was equally low.

Many had elegant and expensive uniforms would have lived and worked "below stairs" and no doubt things happened between them and the white servants.

There were also many black seamen changing ships and some who remained

Theblack population in the late 18th century in the ports was probably several thousands...has been quoted as10% for Bristol ..though I am not convinced

I dont fully understand genetic statistics, but after some6 or more generations there wouldlikely to be more than100 present day descendantsfor each black/white birth --most of whom would probablybelieve themselves to be of entirely white origin. :X

Because of theshameof having a black or coloured ancestor in the 19th century, knowing white Bristolians as I do , family historians wouldpreferto accreditswarthy features of a great grandparent to a fictitiousItalian nobleman rather than to a real African slave ! Such is human nature.



Drydog

@ All ....

This may be of some interest.......
http://www.blackpresence.co.uk/index.htm

Geoff

geoff i didnt realise you were still about

good link....that is an excellent site. i have visted there sometimes

Black have been in Britian since the time of the Roman conquest and the Emperor Hadrian. Here is an interesting tidbit from the BBC:

Black and Asian presence in the North East of England can be traced back to Septimius Severus, a North African Libyan, who ruled England as Roman Emperor between 193-211 AD.

Severus was unique amongst the Roman emperors as being the first Black citizen to hold the highest office in the empire.

The most celebrated example of an early Black presence in Britain is the case of the Roman military garrison on Hadrian's Wall in Cumbria.

No doubt during this occupaton as is the case with so many others, there was miscegentation between the black legionaires and the local Cubrians which from one point of view etablishes a black presence inthe British Isles before there was an England

LadyDay wrote:
Yes LadyDay ....as my father used to say "I am all about like muck in a farmyard"...he didn't say muck though.

Geoff