Liloba wrote:
[quote][font=georgia][color=navy][size=3]
The Black British community should have becomeÂ*the driving forceÂ*behind an economic miracle in the Caribbean, as most Black British people are African- Caribbean.





this is no longer true.

the constant dynamic change within the african diaspora, has affected the demographics in the uk

so much that the numbers of africans from the caribbean and those from the continent are roughly equal

if not weighing more towards africans from the motherland.

CashMoney wrote:


@cashmoney

never said it was fruitless

just asked the question


now tell me sir, what do you like about living in the uk?

I'm ambivalent to England to be honest

Its blahhhh. I feel relatively safe, you van make good money but its crowded and I feel its on the brink of real civil unrest

I think its decent but aside from possibly the US and maybe Cannada I cant think of anywhere else in the west I'd be more comfortable in


The option is always open to go hom but I have to mkake money first cos when it s time to retire I wanna be lounging and not working likesoem peeps I know

mansamusa wrote:
[quote]50 years in the UK, has it been a fruitless excercise.

Basically yes. Because I dont see what else it has been an exercise in. We havent digested the lessons of history/ because if we had come over here in the full knowledge that our direct labour in the Caribbean to a large extentÂ*built the wealth and power of this country to such a degree that it enabled the industrial revolution /then it would of been an attitude and excercise in peaceful re-colonisation/ if there is such a thing.








@mansa

for me, what you say makes perfect sense

the understanding and then implementation of the lessons learnt from your peoples history

culture (the practice of healthy, self loving peoples)

but such, simple, clear analysis brands one a "black extremist"

one of the "blacker than thou" brigade

one of those pan african loonies



the "moderates" dont feel the need to inform and organise africans

its ok that we are sub-citizens

denied equal access but made to pay equal tax

restricted international movement

murdered by the state

mis or totally not educated

at the bottom in a system built on our genocide and race exploitation



not one african that is praised here at blacknet was a non race loving individual

this love is something qualitatively missing from our people

allowing individualism and damn right selfishness to breed like cancer

killing progress and in many, hope


hence, soo many of these so called moderates

can find very little good in a land many hundreds of times richer than the lands their people spent centuries or eons in

and become satisfied with what is often a miserable lot

replicating their white power political leadership's rhetoric

"black people are soo much better off in the west"

"look at the third world, aint white people nice - look at how they are helping our poorer heathen brothers"


our people parrot these words but they dont believe them

he who feels it, knows it

Breadfruit wrote: [quote]

with respect

this thread was started by me

not you

i said africans

and this means

from the continent or the americas

i did not specify how long each particular african groups have been resident because each group, if need be can speak about their experience , for themselves

i hope this clarifies my postion to you

Breadfruit

Yes it will be interesting to see in the next 30 years or so if those Africans directly from the continent have the same laments or if they are even identifiable as a separate cultural entity from the British. Because if you think about it within my/our peer group most of the Africans shared a caribbean culture publically/ one that is being constantly eroded and hybriding into mainstream'urban' culture. You even have black youths now ready to fight and pull gun for their white bredrin. Unthinkable even 15 years ago.

Well Id like to be upbeat and positive but Id be lying through my teeth. But withoutany foundations set how can it be otherwise.

I think there have been some positives regarding the african experience in the UK.

I think that many of the first generation blacks have been able to attain levels of prosperity that they would not have been able to had they remained in their home countries. As someone already mentioned here many of the blacks who came here first were not very wealthy and basically arrived with little more than the clothes on their backs. Through hard work though many have over the years been able to send back alot of remittances to friends and family back home. It may not seem like much to some of us on this end but I know caribbean islands specifically have really benefitted from this. Most caribbean leaders are quick to acknowledge the contributions of their peoples overseas.

First generation blacks returning home have also helped boost the construction sectors and pump even more foreign exchange into the economies.

I also think the british experience has given many of usmany educational and vocational opportunites that wouldn't havebeen available back home. Basically here you can study andpursue a career in whatever field you feel like. Many youths back homewish they had the opportunity to do this.

hmmm.. what again?? I think living in this environment has taught many of us the true nature of the enemy we face. I find that (in the caribbean anyway), because locals don't have to interact with whites on the levels that many of us here must (they only ever see smiling white tourists), they don't really appreciate just how cunning, mischievious, malice etcthat whites can be. By spenting time and studying here though many of our leaders back home are now more wary of white men bearing gifts.

I also think that living here has given us alot of expertise that can be taken back to our home countries of develop them.

That's all I can come up with and I'm really racking my brain here.

I think that it is very important that people set themselvesatime limit when they settle in someone else's country, especially when it is purely for economic reasons.

A lot of immigrants become complacent and do not have any long- term goals. They think thatliving in a rich countryhas turnedthem into successful people, because they still compare themselves to those who stayed back home.

Whensomeone settles in a foreign land in search ofa better life, it is very importantthat they always think about whythey leftthe mother country and whentheyshouldreturn. They must also instill the same sense of responsibility and duty in their children, so they do not waste those hard-wonopportunities.

Those immigrants who get lost and become useless to their own peoplearehappyto depend on someone else's society and do not have any desire to organize themselves as a true community.

Personally, whenImoved to England, I gave myselfabout ten years toachieve my goals, and because of thateveryyear is too important to be wasted. Unfortunately, the only thing that a lot of young black people seem to be able to plan nowadays is their week end. It is very sad indeed.

*Why are we scared of the future whenit is the only thing we canchange?*

Liloba wrote:
[quote]I think that it is very important that people set themselvesÂ*aÂ*time limit when they settle in someone else's country, especially when it is purely for economic reasons.




@liloba

i fully agree with you

the vast majority of africans from the caribbean, in the earlier part of our residency here

set a limit of 5 years for their time in this nation

the vast majority spent a lot longer

i believe was and still is a structual rather than more cultural problem

as soon as many people gained the economic benefit they came here for, they went home

but for the mass this benefit came late in their life, if at all.

so the plan to return was always there


structurally, england needed immigrants who could help rebuild the "motherland" after their tribal war and saw us as a means towards that end

racism does not allow an african mass to accrue capital

such things are in direct opposition

no african community has ever grown and prospered in the many centuries history we have in this country

none of them

this is history we should all be aware of

european minorities have prospered in the colonies using violent exploitation

supported by their powerful nations back in europe

a lesson not Missed by the pan africanist movement

i hear you efenjee

a lack of nationalism, i feel has led to such a view of being "lost" which many of our people may or do feel



let us remember that in the 50's the majority of africans in the caribbean were british subjects and travelled here with british passports

they could not have been stopped for they had everyl right to travel here



independence came soon after but i dont think our forebears who came here had a strong idea about the nature of this independence and what it should mean



afterall, emancipation had not freed up enough of the caribbean's resources to the african mass, not at all


what did our people understand about real freedom?


we were still being ruled by the same people who had enslaved us

the fact that we were still poor prompted our movement to europe



the lack of nationalism amongst our people stopped them from realising the need to rebuild back home, at all costs

this ideal was not passed on to many of the children born or raised here, who began to get caught up in