BP - my parents were windrush generation and my mum used to constantly tell us about nasty women of her generation. Where mum would be more on the dusting and hoovering, dad had us wiping down skirting boards, window seals and paintwork. You didn't know it at the time but these were values you grew up with and learned to respect even if it's just from a work ethic point of view.

Now like many things from ambition to militancy, I wouldn't say my brothers and sister all came out like me, far from it, I tend to be extreme in more or less every thing I apply myself to so really don't expect the average person to keep pace...if anything I'm the abnormal one and would be the first to admit if I was of average mind I probably couldn't live with my normal mind.

But if there is one area a woman must excel in then I definitely expect my woman to be more hygienic than myself...she should be showing me standards and class in that department...aint into no dibby dibby gal or dutty bungle business on some equality flex talking about finance - much more so when children are involved.....and even worse when these people are telling you about being in control and who runs things.

If the hygiene isn't up to scratch it's highly unlikely that I'd want anything to do with you much less your money....as far as I'm concerned everything is dutty...but again, this possibly is just another side effect of my extremism....don't really dabble in the middle ground.

BT - If my observations are right, Muslim men don't do any housework....there are cultures where women (mothers and daughters) are expected to take this on as theirs. African men I know and speak to say their women feel extremely insulted to see their men in the kitchen, it's seen as disrespectful and demeaning yet these women also have careers, one in particular a lawyer earning three times the money as the man.

Cleaning and cooking is culture not a chore though I have come across some people where I get the impression hygiene is something you take up when you move into a house with your partner...something you learn at that stage in your life.....like there's some kind of difference in standards depending on whether you're free and single or with a husband or wife.

I do find myself slowing down though and beginning to appreciate this is where children should be taking up the slack. Also when my IBS was terrorising me I would feel very lethargic and lacklustre where the slightest physical exertion felt like a huge unattainable effort. Surprisingly that was all stress related and disappeared as soon as I was in control of my own environment again and began to eat properly learning to cook my own dinners....can even eat dairy now again which means guiness and pineapple punch and my beloved cornflakes are back on the menu...with no side effects

Bro I think its a product of our generation ( first generation) that a woman has certain duties in the home that must be fulfilled. Its like when I go to a friends house and as bredrens we remark that his woman wont even offer you a cup of water. Its not that my bredren wont do it..but as a bredren its less expected and as a woman of the house it is expected that she provide hospitality/ whether food/ drink. To us I would suggest if you go to a home and the place is nasty it reflects far worse on the woman than the man. In fact Ill be thinking what kind of women you have here bro. You might live like a cruff but I dont expect any women in the house to. I have anpother friend who's toilet seat leaves alot to be desired. What I cant understand is that he has a female lodger. Which women can live around a nasty toilet? It upsets the cosmic order.

it just seem rather harsh and uncalled for.

BT - the generation thing is right up there. Don't know if you've seen the advert for Tilda rice where the Asian mother is upset that years of tradition has gone down the drain because the rice can now be prepared in a microwave oven in less than 5 minutes....yet there's another Asian mother of the same generation buying it up like she's glad.

Many men grew up saying they never want their woman going through what his mother went through...many women said the same thing and with so many men only having countless offspring for so many other women in their defence, the man and woman were right to think the way they did...yet there are many who saw their upbringing as normal. I remember going around to friends houses as a youth and they were pigsties.

I'm not one to compromise though on militancy I still appreciate if my wife was like me our children would be bopping to school in their army greens with a tribal scar in their face so I more than anyone know I need a woman to offer the right balance. Likewise on being an overprotective parent, if it was down to me one I don't think my children would ever be out playing without me being there, I'd be like they could be inside learning how to play chess with me where the mum on the otherhand would let them out on their bikes on their own...again an appreciated balance. But you see when it comes to hygiene, there's no such thing as one person is the clean one and the other the dirty...somebody better be finding somewhere else to live or shape up fast.

Dirt to me is like a phobia...you know the saying new broom sweeps clean but the old broom knows every corner, well I'm a nooks and cranny man, todays generation only wipe what can be seen....if that.

Although most mothers love their children staying home day in day out for some seeing no real other adult contact can get them down. I think it can be important for some mothers to get some other stimuli outside the home and do something for themselves. If they cannot get out i think that it is still important to take some time that is what i suggest to friends and family who have children anyway. One of my friends goes and takes Yoga classes and this helps her.

I try and do what i can to help my sister have some time out for herself and i often suggest that my sister and her husband should go out together to see a film or go to a restaurant etc.

A woman doing housework, cooking and cleaning is a MUST! This is the problem with young generation of women today, some white feminists have convinced them to look down on being a woman and try to be a man as much as possible. That's not gonna work, hence the reason why a lot of failed marriages and abundance of single mothers in AA communities and black communities in general. The men don't know their role in a family system and the women don't.

A woman is judged by how clean her house and how satisfied her husband is, if women cannot succeed in those two criteria, the relationship will fail.

Its sad that you meet with such a woman, but all i was really saying is that you work as a team in a relationship. Crap happens man, just get on with it and do the best that you can for the kids.

masterknowledge - no worries friend, but there's not much I can do for my children as a half dad, a friend at best but can't raise them. The wife is in control now and her backative is the system....she controls the relationship her children have with me, she doesn't control me...what with her white money mentality and her white mans marriage. Indeed when she's selling out to them she's doing it in a way so they believe I'm an unfit parent and this is for no other reason than she knowing what I want for them.

As Kunjufu said in another thread, anything can happen. He's married for a second time but it could still be a third...and to the ex wife so believe me I aint really worried about anything again...life is life.

I got a friend who got run out of his babymommas flat and when he gets a phone call it's to go and collect his son and even worse his daughter from the police station because one of them has just been nicked. I tell him in that position I'd tell the mother straight, I'll go and get them but when they come out they are coming home with me. That's the best I can do for them, seeing them is one thing yes but other than that I can do everything else over the phone...or even a webcam...if she'll let them of course

The ex wife is a sellout big time, I aint going anywhere she is. I've been through a lot of drama which is what most people will see, money, sex and all that sh!t. Yeah I was with a woman who in ten years never initiated a single conversation much less sex, who would have swapped all my values for a min cab driving pu$$ysucker...who even now is trying to steal the childrens inheritance...maybe I should have taken her around to some of my so called friends squats for her to see where and how they live then she would have been more appreciative

I cannot relate to her on any level, revenge to her is getting me to stopp down to her half daddy nastiness. I gave her the benefit of the doubt that her quietness was consciousness and she turned out to be the living bounty. I'm free now, no more jumping in a fast car as a means to replacing sex...which by the way seem to come a lot easier when she wanted to breed...no more worrying and practising celibacy as a means to making sure my children don't have any half brothers or sisters....man if I followed her my life would be spent masturbating...it was only a matter of time before a new woman came along...just a pity my kids can't come to.

Would you believe she even told me if our children had one white parent and one black then each parent should teach the children their side of culture. Now this is on the back of me saying she's raising my youths like greys. I'm like what, I din't marry no white woman, they'll learn all they have to learn about greys from the televison and school and society in general, when they come home they're coming hom to Africa which grey lol.

But It's life man, a big deal but no big deal, ok I've been hustled out of a couple children but my faith is strong. went to see my first boy at his school the other day, gave him a kiss through the gates and told him to be strong and daddy loves him bad. Told him to hug his younger brother for me and asked him what he wants for his birthday. Also asked him if he was happy and he said yes so that's good enough for me.

We need to stop thinking about our children in terms of failure. My half brother is a doctor and he grew without his dad, his dad raised me and my brothers and sisters. I'll give one more woman the sacrifice, already planning the wedding, if that fails then it's pu$$y galore.

BP - lol, put it this way, most men used to say a charcoal black chauvenist like me, how did I end up with someone like her, yeah proper in that department but as the song goes, pretty looks aint all. If you're a man on a mission you need to watch out for these types, nothing but nothing comes before them and their sleep

But believe this, qualities had to be there for her to get anywhere near where she did, but it's amazing how things make sense in the aftermath...the way she would use money alm,ost as a means to compensate for everything else that's lacking...would never ask for none but relatively quick to give...even now I wonder if she would have spent certain money if she didn't have the security of her white mans marriage license.

But get this straight, when I applied for my divorce I wrote a personal statement just for her and the system to know where i was coming from and the opening line said 'my values are wasted on her...so drama aside, that's what it was all about...she had no respect for the graft and no respect for the effort it took to get us where we were. A real sad case because barring a little culture and the way that manifested itself in how the kids were raised, that relationship was on it's way to being one of the greatest success stories of the decade...believe we made nuff people check themselves...but I couldn't even fake it for them....and believe they are so glad it failed. Hypocrites.

Hot yeah, wouldn't have any trouble picking up a punk, even with two kids...but then she was never like that...I wouldn't be surprised if she never dated again.

BP - one more thing, she was just green. As I mentioned before, I could just as easily tell the other 'innocent' side to the story, she just chose the wrong time to run up her mouth. Even me, I was never running anybody out of the yard but you get to relise it's she trying to get me out. I would have happily divorced, raised the kids an married her again when she comes correct - I don't think people realise how much it's me getting robbed in all of this...it's a good thing the father sent the new wife along..with her there I could simply play my divorce out just to see how it ended and enjoy the quality time with the boys for as long as I could.

She was just too intimidated by me, scared to her wits end but some people she sold out to gave her the courage to put up a fight....I was a sperm donor with a bank account, my children are worth more than money and bread. I leave her in peace singing i'm a survivor I'm going to make it and all that bull. These are the women who grow up telling everybody they are strong black women...it's a direct finger point at black men which is an indirect finger point at their own shortcomings.