Melissa - a lot of this independence thing has come from the experience of the upbringing and seeing the life they and their single mothers led at the hands of wotliss men with dozens and dozens of children all over the place for dozens of mothers where just like the slavemaster children are left to the mercy of the oppressor.

I suppose over time this was ingrained enough to be perceived as the norm so women who inherit this independent mindset do so as an inherited class as opposed to an inherited precaution. Therein lies the birth of the babymother and just like all the other things ingrained they still see it fit to blame men, it's a culture all unto itself where at its most wotliss is perceived as intelligence by airheads, men and women alike.

We live in times where a woman would see fit to have implants and all kinds of artificial wotlissness as a means of enhancing a fake femininity whilst frowning upon the idea of doing something natural like childbirth. Don't even mention those going for cesarean for no other reason than maintaining their tightness.

On second thoughts that's being a bit unfair on the men in that the promiscuity levels today are no less only back then from the pill to condoms to abortions birth control was less common. Back then 'every' bare back ride produced a child. Indeed promiscuity levels are probably a lot higher today, even worse now that women are spreading themselves thinner under the disguise of equality.

This western money thing with no cultural safety net is seriously corrupting. Many cultures deem childless women or women who can't have children as the ultimate curse much more a woman actually choosing not to have children. Be interesting to know whether the women in these cultures actually identify with a completely different value set or do they see it as a form of oppression. Guess if allowed to think for themselves, which they do, opinions would be just as varied but there would still be a common consensus with exceptions to that rule.

They should hang their heads in shame and pray for forgiveness.[/quote]

Don't you think thats a tad dramatic?

Was that too much? LOL![/quote]



YES! Even a bucket load of holly water wouldn't be enough...lol

Man i should have stayed on holiday....

Standing ovations for Mellissa, you brought some serious truthiness to the topic!

Some of these comments are just.... wow.....

And I won't even waste my energy responding to whoever said that all I was doing was thinking of myself. Whatever.

Nothing wrong with thinking for yourself even if you are.

If your life is just going to be a series of reactions to everything around you then you may as well be dead.

This is a very valid point. I have many female friends in the same position; unlike me, they want children and want to be married when they have their children, but the men that they come across are not marriage material. They don't want to do it alone. Many of them wonder if they'll even get married or have children and it bothers them. I wonder what the pro-child folks who feel the need to judge others and shove their beliefs down others' throats would say about this phenomenon because contrary to popular belief, not everyone who doesn't have children does so purposely like me. And even if they did just like me, there's nothing wrong with it.

By the way, a little off-topic: the other day I had the honor of watching my new godson being born. And yet, according to some on here and in real life, I'm selfish.

With the worlds resources running out the world needs less children not more. some people should never have kids - i see the results of feckless 'parents' every day and many women who choose not to have children do it for good reasons like my sister who has not found the right man and will never purposely become a single mother. i also have friends whose men expect them to have kids bit won't marry them and they are not about to risk becoming statistcs for men who can't commit. i'm 31 and married and only now want kids because the conditions are right, i have a house and can afford them and am married to someone who has shown 100% loyalty. We are humans, not animals and have evolved to be intelligent enough to not just breed because we can. I understand that if nobody had kids it would be the end of humanity, but there will always be more than enough kids who'll have them, similalry if everyone had as many kids as they could we would also bring about the destruction of our species as we engage in wars to fight over what little resources we have left - this has already started as we fight for oil, next it will be water.

Another valid point. Because of the work I do, I see the results of bad/mediocre parenting every day. The rest of this post is also on point.