Thoughts on suicide ?

Mr. Equanimity · (#1 (**permalink**))

I was reading this article on suicide in japan. they're saying that a PERSON COMMITS SUICIDE EVERY 15 MINUTES IN JAPAN. Its one of the things I noticed when I was reading an anthology of japanese short stories a few months back. There were so many references to suicide in there.

One Japanese suicide every 15 minutes | World news | The Observer

I was "talking" to a sister the other day and she was telling me that she felt suicidal sometimes. I've never felt like that, even at the worst times.

What do you guys think?

Madam Butterfly · (#2 (**permalink**))

it disturbs me when something like this seems as though it is becoming a fashion trend among young people (recent cases in Brigend as well as the tragic Japanese scenario).

But in real terms suicidal feelings are difficult for people to relate to unless they have been there. Even if a person has had someone close kill themselves, they still cannot necessarily relate to what it was that led the person to such a drastic step.

And why did you as (i assume) a male poster decide to post this in the womens forum instead of the village square? This is an issue for everybody, not just women. In fact, aren;t suicide rates higher among men?

But in terms of trying to reason it out or discuss it, those who have never been there will never really understand, so its a touchy subject to broach, even though it should be discussed openly. I guess it takes open minds.

Mr. Equanimity · (#3 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madam Butterfly

And why did you as (i assume) a male poster decide to post this in the womens forum instead of the village square? This is an issue for everybody, not just women. In fact, aren;t suicide rates higher among men?.

I thought I posted this in the Male forum. I didn't check properly, my mistake. Stop being so defensive.

Madam Butterfly · (#4 (**permalink**))

I'm sorry if you presumed my comment to be defensive. it was intended as a genuine query. Perhaps YOU should not be so defensive lol!

I still feel it should be in the village square though.

Mr. Equanimity · (#5 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madam Butterfly

I'm sorry if you presumed my comment to be defensive. it was intended as a genuine query. Perhaps YOU should not be so defensive lol!

I still feel it should be in the village square though.

Maybe we have differing opinions on what is a genuine query and what is a bullshit comment.

Madam Butterfly · (#6 (**permalink**))

Perhaps you would like to end the bullshit unnecessary hostility and bring what was actually a very worthy thread back on track?

What are peoples opinions on suicide becoming a seeming trend in small enclaves? Can something so serious really be reduced to something as trivial as the latest passing trend?

In the case of the Brigend suicides, people have cited a collective hoplessness and lack of job opportunities etc, but to what extent could you argue that the same is true of Japan?

I am not that familiar with japanese culture, but the general impression i get is of a booming economy, but great pressure to do well and suceed, so i guess the trend in suicides would be the opposite to the brigend cases?

In the above two cases i am talking about a geogrpahical trend, but what about more isolated "normal" cases where it is due to soe form of depression? Anyone can fall victim to bad times and go through depression, but what is it that makes others go that final step?

Is it easier to go that "final step" when there seems to be a mob mentalitiy behind it? strength in numbers so to speak?

Mr. Equanimity · (#7 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madam Butterfly

Perhaps you would like to end the bullshit unnecessary hostility and bring what was actually a very worthy thread back on track?

What are peoples opinions on suicide becoming a seeming trend in small enclaves? Can something so serious really be reduced to something as trivial as the latest passing trend?

In the case of the Brigend suicides, people have cited a collective hoplessness and lack of job opportunities etc, but to what extent could you argue that the same is true of Japan?

I am not that familiar with japanese culture, but the general impression i get is of a booming economy, but great pressure to do well and suceed, so i guess the trend in suicides would be the opposite to the brigend cases?

In the above two cases i am talking about a geogrpahical trend, but what about more isolated "normal" cases where it is due to soe form of depression? Anyone can fall victim to bad times and go through depression, but what is it that makes others go that final step?

Is it easier to go that "final step" when there seems to be a mob mentalitiy behind it? strength in numbers so to speak?

Hostile? (lol) Alrighty then....

Seems to me that alot of Japanese culture is real melancholic/self-indulgent which seems to produce alot of introverted social misfits. Thats a harsh way of putting it but it is what it is. Plus we're in the internet age with suicide internet forums and stuff like that. On the the flip side you have women of South Asian descent in this country who have a high suicide rate. That culture seems to be the complete opposite to the Japanese self-obsession. I don't know really.

Even if I was terminally ill, I don't think I would be down with the euthanasea/assisted suicide type of situation. I couldn't do it.

I remember reading an essay by this philosopher called Lewis Gordon where he mentions suicide. To quote:

Blacks, it was believed, were incapable of commiting suicide because, supposedly, like the rest of the animal kingdom they didn't possess enough apperception or intelligence to understand the ramifications of their situation. This reasoning was based on the supposition of what a "true" human being would do if treated as blacks are treated.....

This question of continuing to live on is connected to a controversial theme of all existential thought. It goes like this: There is a sense in which none of us has ever chosen to be born into this world. Yet, in our decision to live on, we live a choice that requires our having been born - in a word, our existence. In the context of blacks, the implication is obvious. No one chooses to have been born under racial designations, but the choice to go on living, and especially choices that involve recognizing one's racial situation, has implications on the meaning of one's birth.

That second paragraph sums up how I feel.

SoulRebel · (#8 (**permalink**))

Have very limited experience of Japan or its culture, though I gather that notions of honour and 'face' as in standing or reputation are deeply ingrained, to the point where suicide might be seen as a palatable way out of an unpalatable situation. Historically, there is the old Samurai practice of 'hara-kiri' - self-disembowellment - though I don't know enough about it to be honest to speak with any authority. But there does seem to be some kind of cultural perspective on it.

Madam Butterfly · (#9 (**permalink**))

ME, from the article you posted, it seems as though the author is sayng that Black people lack the emtional intelligence to understand the concept of suicide, in the same way that an animal wouldn't kill itself as it is too ... not ure of the appropriate word but basically they don't know any better so they accept their situation.

What i got from that was that a white person, in the same position or treated in the same way as a Black person, would commit suicde rather than live like that. But Black people lack the emotional intelligence to think that way, like animals. Have to say, when it comes to issues of "race" and suicide i have never heard that perspective before. But then it is obvioulsy dated, ignorant and backward. It does however say alot for the notion that on some level white people (or at least the ones involved with the article) were aware of how badly Black folks were treatd if they themselves would commit suicide in the same predicament.

As far as Japanaese culture goes, do either of you think that suicide is seen as less taboo seeing as it is so relativley common (though, as you say soulrebel, the reason behind it could be taboo, ie a way to escape dishonour)

SoulRebel · (#10 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madam Butterfly

ME, from the article you posted, it seems as though the author is sayng that Black people lack the emtional intelligence to understand the concept of suicide, in the same way that an animal wouldn't kill itself as it is too ... not ure of the appropriate word but basically they don't know any better so they accept their situation.

What i got from that was that a white person, in the same position or treated in the same way as a Black person, would commit suicde rather than live like that. But Black people lack the emotional intelligence to think that way, like animals. Have to say, when it comes to issues of "race" and suicide i have never heard that perspective before. But then it is obvioulsy dated, ignorant and backward. It does however say alot for the notion that on some level white people (or at least the ones involved with the article) were aware of how badly Black folks were treatd if they themselves would commit suicide in the same predicament.

As far as Japanaese culture goes, do either of you think that suicide is seen as less taboo seeing as it is so relativley common (though, as you say soulrebel, the reason behind it could be taboo, ie a way to escape dishonour)

Strikes me that rather than suicide being seen as the taboo, it would be the situation to which suicide was seen as a 'solution' that would be the taboo topic. I could figure that logic.

Can't imagine that a high suicide rate could be seen as an indication of a healthy culture these days, though, so in some ways the more able they are to discuss it, the better.

Bredder Tukoma · (#11 (**permalink**))

Its in the culture of Japan to commtt suicide as a means of saving honour/face. From Samurai to the kamakazi pilots of WWII / also its not unknown for many politicians caught up in scandal over there to chose this option either.

It wasnt unknown for maroons communities in all of the Americas to choose this option when faced with capture and enslavement. Apparently over 200 men dived to their deaths from a cliff rather than be enslaved when the Portugese finally destroyed Palmeres (in Brazil).

I can see the honour in that.

meknow · (#12 (**permalink**))

I was a fire man in 1974 in Seaside, Ca. We responded to a call at around 3:45 in the afternoon. Found this guy propped up against the kitchen wall. A rifle lying across his leg, blood splattered on the wall next to the refridgerator. He was cold dead.

He had put the gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. The hole in the back of his head was humungous.

Of all I saw that day the sight that did the most to me was the sight of a policeman walking out of the back room with what looked to be a 6 or 7 year old kid.

He had his book satchel in his hand and a little ball cap on and the look was of perplexion. He was in shock. I wondered what he would be like when he realized what had happened.

The mother was out of the picture, his dad was all he had. He had not long returned from Viet Nam.

The father had a poor sense of timing. He could have choosen a different scenerio to spar the child who would have it tough enough being without both his parents. but to leave himself where the child would find him was off the chain.

Peacemaker · (#13 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Equanimity

I was reading this article on suicide in japan. they're saying that a PERSON COMMITS SUICIDE EVERY 15 MINUTES IN JAPAN. Its one of the things I noticed when I was reading an anthology of japanese short stories a few months back. There were so many references to suicide in there.

One Japanese suicide every 15 minutes | World news | The Observer

I was "talking" to a sister the other day and she was telling me that she felt suicidal sometimes. I've never felt like that, even at the worst times.

What do you guys think?

Typical of Japan looking for excuses outside of their own culture. The internet and Bullying, laughable.

No.

Packed into small spaces for most of their lives, and having to work their asses off just to live in a box, it's common knowledge that people who live there sleep less than those elsewhere in the world. It's a s