Excuse me Mr Banks but that style of writting and communication, is none other than Kareem. So what's the Mr Banks business?confused2

@Mr Banks, thought something was wrong there. Know your style of communication/argument etc...

@nuvoe. Long things cut short. Sis you have obviously had not had the experience of the writing/publishing industry and the blatant politics, which actually is a reflection of sexual/racial politics elswhere. In fact I read Mr Banks as he is now known try to explain to some sister the politics involved in this process, but she took offence and my man is good to even waste his time, because women like that don't get a second of mine.

As someone who knows about publishing politics, black men have always written and probably far more prolific than women. The fact is it during the 1970's white feminists literally took the publishing world by storm and took over and created thier own companies etc. Women's Press in this country was just one which launched the careers of not only white fiction and non fiction writers eg academic scholars, but also a host of black women. The US even many more similar publishers.

Many of these who actually created the platform for many black female writers who in effect were singing from the same hymn sheet as them, which launched this discovery and structuring to the publishing world and the comical perception black boys men don't read, when that is nonsense black boys consume comics and other literature in ways young girls would be left standing.

The problem is this, prior to white women becoming a force in literature white men and Jews in particularly controlled this industry and they discriminated against black writers like nobodies business. Even some of the great classic works of black people, the majority of which written by black men, struggled to see the light of day, because of the racial politics of publishing. Publishing is a very very stragetically important industry, for the control and shaping of ideas, and society and culture. So rather than it is projected, it is black men who suffer double discrimination; because most crappy and mediocre black women writers can get published while highly skilled black men cannot.

I know black publishers, here in the the 1980's who had so many manuscripts from black male authors, on so many issues that they could publish books for 3 generations, but could not, as they did not have the infrastructure and capacity.

I can give many personal examples, as can brothers like Rammie who is a member of this Forum, on how this shit works. I have written stuff alone and in conjunction with other brothers, which went right against all the popular nonsense, and we know what they are talking about, on highly controversial, or things of interest, which white publishers tried to massacre and reduce to the standard crap produced by the majority of black women writers.

I can cite books like "Heart of the Race" by Dadzie and Bryant, which is not only mediocre to say the least, but filled with lies and inaccuracies about not only the history of political and social/communal organisation, which I will tell you with no humility I am an authority on, and not many people know more about the subject.

But worse they spoke about things I and others were centrally involved with, and can prove, but they claimed they were and worse most of the key developments were brought about by women which is slanderous in its blatant falsehood. Black men and black men primarily built the basis of all our major communal infrastructure, as those issues are the things men are intrinsically concerned about. Not women, and that is a fact which can be proven empirically.

I can go on. For example a woman recently wrote a foolish book the other day which we discussed on Guns and Violence thread, which was insulting to our intelligence and experience. But look how quick the woman was scooped up by a publisher, because her views are more likely to support their agenda at undermining black men and reinforcing the dominant view of our community.

Extremely talented brothers struggeled to get publishers. 3 of the most gifted of my friends, highly educated, extremely good scholars all PHDs have left to go to the US only this year. This country has lost black Caribbean male writers, poets, script writers, play wrights, film makers brilliant scholars/acadmics, intellectuals in serious numbers. If you count the number of intellecual/artistic/creative black and particularly Caribbean journals there are today, compared to when I was young, to what there is today it is unbelievable in the massive decline. Most of these journals were created by and run by black men.

It is not the case some black women do not work hard, or are not talented, but they are not as talented as black men, or as educated, or as inquiring or naturally as critical as men for that fact. When you have been around large numbers of talented men and women, you will see the difference. It jumps out at you. Most of the greatest and creative thinkers we have are predominantly men, because they are more fearless and prepared to go it alone and be out there by themselves.

I can guarentee you most black film makers/script writers etc who I know who are black men, find it far more difficult, even to get through the first stage, because people know generally men are interested in things which white people are not and black women are more likely to come with stuff useful to them, or they can and want to relate to. A black woman wins an award in a British film because she touche the hearts of white women or men, something most black men are not going to do, or even want to, I would suggest...If it was a black man sexing a white woman in Monsters Ball reversing the Halle Berry scenario, nobody would be calling for him to get an Oscar.

So like all things in society, it is the requirements and interests of those who run key institutions which determines what black people succeed, or don't, what gets published, seen or heard.

But then black men should take these things for granted and do something about it ,after all we ain't women who are compliant generally by design and evolution.

Fredblack wrote: [quote]I told him that he should stick with KAREEM, I mean Mr Banks....ah phew :Pbring back Kkkkkaaaarrrrreeeeeemmmm I say, don't like that Mr Banks business one bit blknowayblkbuttkick

@Nuvoue

I hardly pick up any black authors of fiction books because in my opinion the damage that most of these garbage books do to ones mental will take about 5 extremely good factual book to erase the mess.

I quite agree with Kareem (I mean Mr Banks) a few names to stay away from are

Omar Tyree

Eric Jerome Dickley

Terry McMillian

to name just a few...I don't like the messages that these books gives out are they the real initiators ofreflecting and/or promoting a way of life....but thats my view because I know even if I as one will say stay away from these there will be 50 ready and waiting to say these books are just fun. On a lighter note I did enjoy John Grishams earlier stuff. Also stay away from the X-press they are SH*T. I have read a fiction book for so long but I do remember reading one called Brothers and Sisters by Bebe Campbell Moore....now that had an interesting ending to it for the Black man and women in the story.

Yes..black men do read fiction occasionallly but most of us like dealing in concrete reality because we have too many problems to waste time reading fantasy.


Well said MR BANKS blkclapblkclapthat goes for this sister as well.

The problem is is that a lot of people read these novels and somehow can't seperate fiction from reality. I see to many sistas (and some brothas) with too high an expectation from what they want in an individual because of these subliminal messages written by bitterpeople who just got out of a relationship or white feminists who base all their 'knowledge' on what their black girlfriends tell them. Terry McMillan ring a bell?

This is something I'll get through to my daughter when she grows up, because she'll have to know that ain't no 6'8 tall, millionaire, Denzel look-a-like, bodybuilder brotha with a cape down his back and an S on his chest is gonna whisk heraway on a white horse and carry her off into the sunset. We ain't living La La Land. The decent brotha that so many claim they can't find is probably staring them in the face 24/7.

Mafdet. Don't talk about X Press.What a joke. They published some good books. For example Yardie is an excellent book, but how it is marketed is completely misleading, because it does not actually promote the life, but exposes it as ugly, sad and destructive to all it touches. It also says and shows very positive things about black men and women.

Me and some brothers pay big money to attend one of their writers/publishing workshops and sorry to say another case where you give people respect in so far as encouragement in what we thought they were trying to achieve. After meeting Dotun Adebayo and see what they were saying and what they thought the market was, we felt sick absolutely sick. Because them bros just fake. Many of knew him from The Voice in its better days, as one of the more progressive journalists there, before he became their music and popular culture man. Along with another Nigerian bro,who is my close posse probably the best writers on the whole paper.

When you read the subsequent books he wrote personally. They are probably the worse shit I have seen produced ever. To say it is anti black women and women generally is an understatement. "Can I Have My Balls Back Please" and the follow up are the worse things I have seen. EVER and again designed to plug into the white angry male market and in the process feel no way to make black women look like shit. Claiming they will go as far as stealing men's sperm, going into dusbins and taking out used condomns and producing children with them. The guy is sick, but is making more money than me and others through their written work.

He has taken all the worse extremes of black and white male experiences and created a picture of women and black women which I am offended by, because they are less than animal, lack anything name morals or upbrining. Absoultely hideous, while advocating group sex and all kinds of madness which no doubt why he is a failure with women, or has become so. Really sad fall of very young and talented brothers. But lack heart and faith in the face of the enemy, and allowed his own defeats and bitterness to cripple him.

All he has done is bought into and sold out, the same way most of these black women writers, who I could give you blow by blow account of, because it is not now I know of these people. So there is a market in dissing women, and saying that black and white men quite rightly gave them the platform, because if men did not open doors nothing would of happened. It was not women who pass these laws or policies but men. Black men died and loss their liberites fighting police to force things on the agenda, which women beneifited from, at their expense in the racial divisive poltics of this society. I put the first women in senior postions in several key organisations including the Police Service.

Decent men passed the same housing, and welfare and family legislations which today is used against men at the drop of the hat and black men even worse. Taking their children at a drop of a hat and making them penniless. So it that hate and anger, that these men are not playing to and what is worse Daton is on every white radio show, late night debating forums etc spreading his poison.....

He was on a debate attacking indigenous African and Caribbean culture, saying his father like many black fathers believed beating their children was the answer for everything, and on that basis he rejects his culture as a Nigerian to embrace white gutter morality. Some trendy white boy turned around and told him from his knowledge of Nigerian, African and Caribbean cultures they had more positive aspects than he was suggesting, such as a more collective ethos, attitudes to age and mutual obligations and a whole heap of other things, giving him a slap like a stupid child talking shit. No his warped emotions or internal lack of balance, allows him to use the platform given to him to espouse self hate on every level.

Nothing is more political than publishing. Check my top man Haki R Madhubuti[award wining writer,essayist and poet] who is the expert in the movement on this subject and founder of the radical Third World Press without whom most of the great classics of serious implications eg the entire works of Chiek Anta Diop would not see the light of day....In fact Haki's work would not see the light of day, if he did not try a thing, and he is one of the best if not the best African American essaysist in the business.

Serious isssue peopleblktype

@Mr Banks, Mafdet have to agree something not right about the feel and spirt of that name. There is only one Kareem good or bad and usually good...I can't even get worked about about the name in responding to one of his provactive posts. But Kareem is more concrete and tangible.

Why are you all soooo serious?

Yes, you all have very valid points with regards to brainwashing, as that is essentially what you are all talking about. Fiction can be, has been and continues to be used to get into the subconcious and make changes that more often than not leaves the individual totally unaware. But I ask you, what about the rest of us who, because we know this and have some kind of grip on reality, choose to read fiction as some sort of escape from reality? To pander to our egos? To feed the under-romanced side of our personalities?

Well, I am just a hopeless romantic who remains as real as possible. I, like I suspect you all do too, defend the right of the individual to express themselves. It simply is down to the individual seeking literature to choose something that they are able to handle appropriately. I think that it would be very sad to write-off the likes of Tyree and Jerome-Dickey etcsimply because it is deemed that they have some kind of agenda. The only way forward is not to rely on others to publish and produce but to do it for ourselves. There is obviously a gap in the market which needs to be capitalised upon.

I totally agree with those expressed opinions of D. Adebayo, MacMillan, Xpress, etc. With the exception of MacMillan I have purchased and read and all that has been said seems to be true. I refuse point blank to buy ANY Alice Walker - too much damage to have on my shelves! Through being open-minded and actually experiencing the pleasure that can be had through reading black male fiction I know that there has to be a better way of obtaining more of it. That way the pleasure can be spread throughout the community. I know of one particular writer who is just starting out. Mind blowing!! And there is nothing about his writing that could be seen as 'dodgy'.

Please let it be known that knowledge of what us black women owe to black men is increasing. The best possible way could very well be through the support of the imagination and its many expressions.

This may be something that totally contradicts all that has been said but a good read is: UPTOWN HEADS by R.K. BYERS - personal, non-serious pleasure gained.

nuvoue wrote:
God the title ofthis thread pisses me off.

What the **** does the race of a person have to do with what they write or read?

PersonallyI do have the intention to write a book at some pointin my life, most likely to be afictional piece, but you'd not know what race I am unless I decided to mention it for no real reason. Though if the technology is how I want it to be at that time it might turnout to be an RPG of some sort instead.

Black men this black men that, it's starting to grate alittle, honestly it's ****ing annoying.

John Grisham is John Grisham, Stephen King is Stephen King. I'm sure if they were black they'd write exactly the same way.

What the **** is books focused towards black men?, is our psyche that alien to the rest of the human genome or something?.

@ PM

I was thinking that, a very silly thread.

Men don't read fiction? LOL

The fact that there is a smaller cut off womens section within a bookshop should make you begin thinking of what is OUTSIDE the smaller cut off womens section... it's like... the rest of the shop!

You should limit your reading in such a way.

I met a woman who could tell you all about Zane and Jerome Dickey but didn't have a scooby who Gengis Kahn was.

Check out my blog @ www.myspace.com/jamaicanwriter

I am a black male fiction writer, many times published, but it has been a struggle for every inch mainly due to this perception that 'black men dont read/read fiction.'

I, like you, read Grisham, King but also Walter Mosley & Donald Goines. My style is a mixture of my influences.

Hope you enjoy the stories i've posted on the blog and dont lose hope-there are still some writers out there channeling the influences you named.

I for one love reading fiction books as well as history books. I am a big fan of Courtia Newland, and Malorie Blackman.





What I have noticed is that if you want to find a wide selection of black fiction books, you need to disregard places like WHSMITHS. What I have noticed is that places like those only shelf self hating relationship books aimed at black women. Some of these stores may shelf the odd decent book , but a majority do not.

You may find ths

African Oneline Shop
Address: 2 Surrenden, Brighton, BN1, 6PP
Telephone: 0207 681 3968
www.over2u.co.uk

Sankofa
Address: 132 Claremont Road, Moss Side, Manchester, M14 4RT
Telephone: 0161 342 0925


Centerprise Bookshop
Address:136 Kingsland High Street, Dalston, E8, 2NS
Telephone: 0207 245 9632
Specialises in Black writing, contemporary fiction and books for children; plus cards, giftwraps and book tokens. Orders accepted for any book in print; and the bookshop can supply books on invoice to schools and libraries.

Maarifa Books
Address: 6 Bradbury Street ,Dalston
Telephone: 0207 503 0300
Email: www.maarifabooks.com

Mama Afrika Kulcha Shap
Address: 282 High Road, Leyton E10, 5PW
Telephone: 0208 539 2154

Muatta Books
Address: 58 Clarence Road, Clapton, E5, 8HB
Telephone: 07956 134 370
Email: muattabooks@yahoo.co.uk


New Beacon Books
Address: 76 Stroud Green Road, London, N4, 3EN
Telephone: 0207 272 4889
www.newbeacon-books.com
Has been holding books documenting life in Black Britain since 1966.

Pepukayi Distribution Services
Address: 58 Carew Road, Tottenham, N17 9BA
Telephone:0208 801 0205



Books and Images
Address 122 – 126 Kilburn High Street, Kilburn, NW6
Telephone:07956 695 808

Liberation Corner
Address:95 Wilesden High Road
Telephone:0207 639 3036


One world books (Internet shop)
Address: 8 Ricketts Street, SW6, 1RU
Telephone: 0207 381 4996
www.one-world-books.demon.co.uk


Passionet.net (Internet store)
Address: 537 Norwood Road, Chestnut Road, West Norwood, SE27, 9DL
Telephone: 0845 330 9498
www.passionet.co.uk/


Harriet Tubman Bookshop
Address: 27 Grove Lane, Handsworth, Birmingham
Telephone:0121 554 8479


Cards of Colour
Address: 32 Model Market, 186 Lewisham High Street, SE13
Telephone:0208 297 1511

Multicultural Books LTD
Address: PO Box 107, Greenford, Middlesex, UB6 9YX
Telephone:0208 613 1978
www.multiculturalbooks.co.uk


Bajaican Blessings
Telephone: 0208 864 2579/ 07909515419



Kizala
Address: 9a George Street, Croydon, Surrey, CR0 1LA
Telephone: 0208 688 2601
Email: www.kizala.co.uk

Hylton’s Estates
Address: Unit 30, Rye Lane Market, Peckham, SE15 5ER
Telephone:07946546544
Email: www.hyltonventures.co.uk
Specialise in afro-caribbean books on history, empowerment, education videos, dvd’s etc


African Books Collective
Address:The Jam Factory, 27 Park Street, Oxford, OX1, 1HU
Telephnone:01865 726686

Airlift Book Company
Telephone: 0208 804 0400
For African American publications

Francis Lincoln Publishers
Telephone:0207 284 4009

Headstart Books and Crafts
Address: 25 West Green Road, N15, 5BX
Telephone: 0208 802 2838
Email: wboaye@yahoo.co.uk


Hansib Publications Limted
Address: 3rd Floor Tower House, 141 –149 Fonthill Road, N4,3HF
Telephone: 0207 281 1191


BIS Publications
Address: PO BOX 14918 N17 8WJ
Telephone: 0845 226 4066
www.bispublications.com
info@bispublications.com


Letterbox Library
Address: 71-73 Allen Road, Stoke Newington , N11 8R1
Telephone: 0207 503 4801

Letterbox Library,
Address:Unit 2D, Leroy House, 436 Essesx Road,N1,3QP
Telephone:0207 226 1622


Nubian Minds
Address: 156a High Street, Walthamstow, London, E17, 7JS
Telephone: 0208 509 7389
Email: www.nubianminds.co.uk


The African Centre
Address: 38 King Street, Covent Gardens, WC2C, 8JT
Telephone: 0207 740 6640
Within this Centre is the African Book Centre, which house various books from a number of countries from the continent. The building also houses the Centre for African languages, and the African Education Trust.

Yemanja-A Window to Afrika
Address: 7 Stroud Green Road, Finsbury Park, N4, 2DQ
Telephone: 0207 281 8668
Email: www.yemanjaonline.com


Yemanja-A Window to Afrika
Address: 446 Birchfield Road, Perry Bar, Birmingham, B20 3JQ
Telephone: 0121 344 3744

African Books Ltd
Address: 3 Galena Road, W6 0LT
Telephone:0207 746 3646



Soma Books
Address:38 Kennington Lane, SE11 4LS
Telephone: 0207 785 2101
Imports African, Caribbean, and Asian books.


Zawadi Enterprise
Address: 79 Brixton Village, Coldharbour Lane, Brixton, SW2, 8PS
Telephone: 0207 733 2868/0870 737 5000
Email: www.zawadi-enterprises.co.uk

West Indian Cultural Centre
Address :Carmoor Road, Manchester
Telephone : 0161 257 2092

Grounding
Address: Unit 30, 231 High Road, Tottenham, N15
Telephone: 0208 800 2727

A Darker Shade
Address: 42 Chadsworth Road, Hackney, E5, OLP
Telephone: 07949211122

www.fasuuku.co.uk
Address: 81 Falkirk Lane, Maida Vale, W1 1QX
Telephone: 0207 604 3621
Email: info@fasuuku.co.uk


Btec Somaliland
Address: 45 South Road, Southall
Telephone: 0208 813 9414
Specialises in Somalian books.

Tamarind Books Ltd
Address: PO Box 52, Northwood, Middlesex, HA6, 1UN
Trelephone: 0208 866 8808
www.tamarindbooks.com
tamarindLTD@aol.com


Bookscan
Address: Unit 9 Angela Davis Industrial Estate, Somerlyton Road, Brixton, SW9, 8TZ
Telephone: 0207 274 6499


Bantu World
www.bantu,vshore.ca
Online store selling CD/DVD focused on African/Caribbean history


Peepaltree press Publishers
Address: 17 Kings Avenue, Leeds, LS6, 1QS
Telephone: 01132451703
www.peepaltreepress.com


Nubian Books
Address: Brixton Market, on Brixton Station Road ( near the beginning of the road) ON SATURDAYS ONLY

Brown Skin Books
Address:PO Box 46504, London N1 3YA
Tel: 020 8986 1115
Email: info@brownskinbooks.co.uk
www.brownskinbooks.com

Pempamsie
Address: 102 Brixton Hill, Brixton, SW2
Telephone: 0208 6710800
www.pempamsie.co.uk
Email: unity@pempamsie.co.uk


Afrikan bookstall

New Covent Garden Market
Vauxhall

SUNDAYS ONLY


Kwazen Books
Address: Unit 20 Groveglade Shopping Hall, 9-13 The Broadway, West Ealing, W13 9DA
Telephone: 07946 835 686
Email: kwazenbooks@ginikanwa.com

Playfare Toys LTD
Address: 30 High Street, Harlesden, NW10, 4LX
Telephone:0208 965 4477
Email: store@playfare.com



Respect 4 Life
Address: 1st Floor Crossbow House, 40 Liverpool Road, Slough Berkshire, SL1 4X7
Telephone: 01753 774591


D’ JED
Address: The New Shepherds Bush Market, UNIT L32- L34
Uxbridge Road, London W2 8LF
Telephone: 0208 743 1985 /07836 355 416 / 07946 743 108



Kuumba
Address: 23 Glenworth Road, Radford, Nottingham, NG7 5QN
Telephone: 01115 847 7232 / 079522369112


Adonis and Abbey Publishers Ltd
Address: PO Box 4433418, London, SE11, 4XZ
Telephone: 0207 733 8803
www.adonisandabbey.com