I'm watching the latest Andrew Lloyd webbers search for a stage star on BBC 1, which is supposed to be looking for a new 'oliver' and a Nancy for said musical.........

Up on screen is a clearly Nigerian woman auditioning for the role of Nancy...WTF!!! Olviver was set in ye Olde England Nancy was WHITE!!!!

What is going on? First you get Kevin Costner in Robin Hood prince of Thieves with a BLACK Muslim sidekick..... Then you get the BBC version with Indians Blacks and god know who else as part of the merry men....To be honest it was getting so stupid that i was half expecting a person in a wheel chair to take over the role of little john....

Call me a traditionalist but Robin and his men were WHITE, Nancy in Oliver was WHITE...what the hell is going on ? Am i to be treated to Justin timberlake as Shaka Zulu next!!!?

I really don't get a Black woman playing a role that was clearly meant to be WHITE...it ruins the flippin show and makes a mockary of establish historic facts....

ok rant done!!

At least the black guy in Robin hood made sense. Remember Robin was over in the Crusades at the start of the movie and they came back together.

Well weren't the black guys in Robin Hood ,Moors???


Anyway I havnt seen the show you're talking about but basically they have no intention of casting her,tis just an exercise in humiliation and explotation.

They pulled the same shit when they had that show "Grease is the word",they had an overweight black girl audtioning for the role of Sandy,kept putting her through,when clearly they were never gonna cast her,you could argue "oh well maybe she had a really amazing voice"........the answer to that would be NO,she was just there as a figure of fun.

I think Nancy was played recently in the West End by a biracial black/white woman. I know what you are getting at but sometimes I think that people should be a bit open to other races taking on parts that have traditionally been played by white people.
The majority of plays that we know today white people have been cast in the leading roles.
In schools today some black talented children who are good at drama maybe missing out on playing some roles because of their colour.
It bothered me last year that not a single black person got through to try for Maria.
I think it is good that black people have made it to the heats this year.

I also thought that Brandy's remake of Cinderella was a great idea.

Yes,hear what you're saying,as I believe Shakepearean roles can and should be played by anyone of any hue,except maybe the role of MacBeth(Scot) or Hamlet(Dane)..we sure enough have had enough white Othellos over time,but now this role is being claimed more and more by(Africans) Blacks.

But theres a line I guess,i'm not interested in seeing an out of context Nancy,unless they are doing an all Black Oliver Twist,in the same way I dont expect to see Jessica Simpson audtioning for the role of Celie in The Colour Purple.

Yes there are areas of flexibility in casting,however there are limits.

The real Cleopatra was a white woman. She was Macedonian Greek.

Why should we care anyway? Look at the damn roles of the ancient Egyptians in many documentaries and movies. They're all played by whites and Arabs. That's what we should really be ranting about. We all know that the ancient Egyptians were blacks. Yet non-blacks are the ones making a mockery of our history. Jesus and the all of the people of the Bible were black. Yet look how many white people played them. Hell if they can do all of that then what's wrong with blacks playing roles meant for whites?

Hmmm shakespare i get....Black people playing these type of roles i get.. i don't get a BLACK woman playing Nancy..I don't get an Asian and woman in Robin hood is taking the piss.... a Black woman as Sandy is taking the piss.... Having a Black guy play Kingpin in Spider man ruins the bloody flim...

Whatever next..

brad Pitt as Malcolm X..

Angela Jolie as Nanny of the Maroons..

Bob hosklins as Martin Luther King...

come on now that stupid!!!!

Ps..cleopatra was NOT white....she was the product of a white father and BLACK mother..lets get real please!!!!

Her mother was not black Kunjufu.

Cleopatra was not mixed-race. All of the old busts and images of her on coins show her to be a white woman.

Have to agree here. it doesn't make sense there was a recent adaptation of oliver and Nancy was Black... Sophie Ok... ( sp her name)... it was weird especially as she was in a sexual relationship....

There is a limit.. I'm a bit of a stickler when it comes to historical representations...

Can you image a White Shaft?

Funny thing is a white girl I spoke to was saying how it was 'brilliant' that they were casting black people in these roles... sometimes I hate political correctness

Robin Hood is fiction...so is oliver twist,so what "historical" things are inaccurate if a Nigerian auditions for the role...?

poetic licence

Didn't a similar thing happened with the auditions for Grease?

Grease Is The Word: Sinitta Wants A Black Sandy - Unreality TV

There was a single black woman auditioning for the part of Sandy and I remember querying on another forum how would they explain a black female getting jiggy with a white dude in late 50s America - considering we were being lynched around that time. How would they explain that Sandy's parents are white - there's no escaping that.

But the reality was certain people out there dont see that - namely people like "Macho man, blonde hair, blue eyed" Sinitta who still sing the praises of white people even after taking a beat down from them.

So if you are a black actor/actress you should only play Shakespearean roles and not take the lead in the majority of theatre roles?

I don't believe i said that...I just think that this is so called positive discrimination gone too far.... If for example i go to see the 'Harder they come' at the West End...a fictional Character representing JA life..I would not expect to see Jason Donovan in the lead role... Nor would I expect to see Brad Pitt playing Malcom X in no Film about the Man... Living in a so called Multi Cultural country does not mean we should turn a Colour blind eye to everything.. as if cultural context or colour does not matter or is immaterial it is dshonest and for me makes a total mockary of identity and established facts...

To me its trying too hard to be inclusive where its NOT called for...As far as i'm concerned Robin Hood was written by a European about European fictional character it was of its time and that should be respected....not altered to fit into todays morality.. same with Oliver Twist... Its a commentary about poverty and the criminal underclass in 1838.. call me a traditionalist but it detracts from the story when you start fart arsing with the characters by including BLACK leads when none existed before..or by swapping white characters for black ones to appear right on..

Plus lets be honest how pissed would we be if it was now suggested that some of our most important fictional or historical characters could now be played by Asians, Europeans I know i for one would NOT be happy...So can only imagine what Europeans must be thinking watching a Black woman line up for the role of Nancy...sorry butt i just think its wrong!!

But that is what it would boil down to.
As been said before there is a slight difference between historical and fictional characters.

On another note i was surprised to find out that Keisha was only 23 as she looks at least 27 to me. Keisha's surname is Amponsa-Banson she has a double barrelled surname i am not so sure if that is a Nigeria surname maybe it is or maybe she is married or originates from another part of Africa.

Cleo and Keisha are both through to next week anyway.

For those who want to find out more about the people we are discussing and the show in general you can find out more about it here.
BBC - I'd Do Anything - Home

"There you go , giving a F, when it's not your turn to give a F"

Although unlikely it wouldnt be impossible that Nancy could of been a black/mixed race woman. The character is fictional anyway, so why is the historical accuracy so important. As long as the part can be made believable and the audience enjoy the performance then the issues raised in the lead post become de-bunked. As a black actor of course you should auditon for the part. Its a major role, the heights you strive for in any career and pays a good salary i'd imagine, so sod the historical accuracy. Its not a part which is disrespectful to our elders or waters down our history, so why not.

The fact that Reality TV shows generally arent "black people friendly", is another issue however, and one i thoroughly understand as good reason to not audition.

correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't this written by Charles Dicken nearly two centeries ago...the fact that the characters are fictional is immaterial, the author wrote based his thoughts on WHITE European fictional characters not Black ones... If we start rewriting things like this my question is where does it stop!!?

So In the 19th century there weren't ANY black or mixed raced women in England?

Maybe you're making something into a serious concern which isnt supposed to be. Its fictional. Just because you cant get your head around Nancy being black doesnt mean the majority of the public wont be able to, and thats all that counts really-bums on seats.

When a non white person does a remake of a known work and replaces a white character.....there just needs to be some backstory included.


Morgan Freeman was a "Moor" in Robin Hood......so even though it's fiction.....the characters are true to the time,region that the story takes place.


==========================

Kunjufu...that line I used is from the "Wire".....you've consistently showed an inordinate concern about what whites "think" when we've had debates before.....


As if ALL these same whites you're concerned about don't have paintings in their homes of a "Germanic looking figure who lived in Middle East(Palestine).....about 2000 years ago".....whether they consider it fiction or fact .



You give a (bleep) when it's not your turn to give a (bleep)

I never questioned the existence of BLACK people in the UK, i questioned whether it was right to make oliver twist plitically correct by replacing White characters with Black ones...my further question is if its ok for oliver twist is it then ok for black plays to be whitewashed in the same way?

On the issue of Morgan [driving miss daisy]Freeman.... his inclusion in the Robin hood story was well done, and he made the film... But Robin Hood historically had no BLACK characters in it..and Freeman's inclusion was typical Hollywood taking the piss in my view... The BBC version just took the piss and went too far and made the whole show seem stupid as they were clearly trying too hard to include every tom dick and harriet in the bloody show...

Now as for this other stupid charge.of caring too much what the 'white man thinks' please..can we not resort to lazy shorthand reposts to underpin weak points... I've said quite clearly that my fear is that we going to end of a beige mess where i'm told my colour and culture is not important in terms of historical context.. i reject this and argue that whilst in some case a colourblind approach can be warranted it can't for me be without limits... we already have a good example of where this will end up with the joke that is the MOBO's award that started out Black and ended up being washed out version of the Brits that celebrate everybody else but the BLACK people it was supposed to uplift...