netbooks?

DtotheJ · (#1 (**permalink**))

anybody here own one or use one?

thinking of getting my sister's children one as a group gift and want to get one that's sturdy and will last long.

i've done the research, now I just want to hear from real life people.....

heard good stuff about the last asus netbook...

Didn't the technology for these things come about because they were building those low price notebook computers for children in developing countries?

onelaptopprechild and all that....

they are great for energy efficiency and most importantly....they don't use vista...

================================================== =======

umbrarchist · (#2 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by DtotheJ

Didn't the technology for these things come about because they were building those low price notebook computers for children in developing countries?

onelaptopprechild and all that....

Not so much the technology as the incentive to compete in that market and to see how it flew in the 1st world.

I have an OLPC. The keyboard really sucks and I don't like the color but otherwise it is a rather impressive little machine. I suspect you will have a hard time finding a netbook as rugged or with the wireless range of the OLPC. It reaches about 3 times as far as any of the laptops I have compared it against. But it has these funny looking antenna that stick up but they act as covers for the ports when the machine is folded up. A slick design trick..

I have only read about and watched videos on youtube about actual netbooks.

The thing is people don't seem to understand how much processing power is really there. They don't comprehend what the numbers mean. The manufacturers need Vista to WASTE PROCESSING POWER for people to have a need to buy more powerful machines. Screen size might be more of a reason to buy a laptop instead of a netbook than anything else.

um

TheCall · (#3 (**permalink**))

The person who had the idea was thinking about kids in the sticks.

The people dropping netbooks aren't. They're looking for a new gimmick to sell their junk.

Don't waste your money.

Agu Bu Oji.. · (#4 (**permalink**))

Amazon is good for reviews and what not.... tend to use the American one and bounce off the UK version.

Amazon.com: olpc xo laptop

DtotheJ · (#5 (**permalink**))

ok thanks to all

I thought the atom processor was developed when they were making the olpc....

I was actually trying to purchase one of those olpc but over here you had to donate one to buy one.....

those laptops are made to be completely functional .....whereas most consumer electronics are built to break down and be obsolete..

can't get my hands on one of the olpc...so the netbook is the next best alternative.....and uses xp....not vista so that's a plus..some of the netbooks have good functionality .......which is why I'm trying to get one that they won't destroy..

TheCall · (#6 (**permalink**))

You obviously have your preference and reasons, but ME...

I wouldn't take a netbook unless it was free, and even then I might think twice.

You can just as easily get a solid used lappy on the cheap, kit it out, and load it up with gear for the kids to lose themselves in. If we're talking about younger children forget a lappy and go for a HUGE desktop.

And regardless of what you buy, with the attitude most youth have towards these things they'll "break" it in a few months and it will be collecting dust in the basement because it "doesn't work" or is "old" especially if you don't load it up and they're using it purely to surf crap sites.

And if you want XP, hell you don't have to get a system with it preinstalled nor do you have to buy it. You could also try any of the like thousands of Linux or Unix distros that ape Windows and peform ten times better.

rachie · (#7 (**permalink**))

Even my 5 year old nephew I doubt that he would not be happy with an OLPC.
He would struggle to even play runescape and his cartoon network games on it.
In fact i cannot say that i know any kid that would be really happy with one of those.

I would suggest you don't get a netbook with a 1024x600 resolution because they are not just good for game playing. You can get netbooks that are about 12 inch with a decent resolution so i would suggest one like that maybe a Samsung NC20.

DtotheJ · (#8 (**permalink**))

thanks

greatest benefit to using the netbooks is that the best ones have tremendous battery life... like over 6 hours.....and they consume less energy than regular laptops when they are plugged in.

need something rugged.......good screen resolution(as rachie pointed out)...that doesn't consume a lot of power that's practical for use.

umbrarchist · (#9 (**permalink**))

YouTube - Samsung NC20 unboxing and first impressions

Samsung NC20 Full Specifications

* Screen: 12.1” LED WXGA (1280 x 800)
* CPU: VIA Nano™ ULV Processor U2250 (1.3+GHz, 800MHz)
* Chipset: VIA VX800 Unified Digital Media IGP Chipset
* Graphics: Integrated VIA Chrome9™ with DirectX 9.0 3D graphics support and hardware video acceleration
* OS: Microsoft R Windows XP Home Edition
* Memory: 1GB DDR2 (1*SODMM)
* Storage: 160GB HDD (9.5mmH 2.5’’HDD, SATA)
* Webcam: 1.3 Mega pixels web camera
* LAN: 10/100Mbps LAN
* Wireless: Atheros 802.11 b/g
* Bluetooth: 2.0+EDR (Enhanced Data Rate)
* I/O Ports: USB2.0 x 3, Ethernet LAN, 3-in-1 card reader
* Battery: 6 cells Li-ion Battery Standard
* Dimensions: 292.4mm x 217mm x 30.7mm
* Weight: 1.52kg
* Special Features: 6.5 hours battery life

And this is for kids?

$430 How many adults need more than this.

Are kids going to just use it for a game machine and just play status symbol games with other kids. What will the kids learn because of it? What do we do for educational software.

That hard drive and Gig of RAM totally blows away the OLPC but that means backup problems because someday it will crash. Damn, I remember when a gigabyte was a big deal on a server. The future just ain't what it used to be. What do we do with this much processing power?

What would happen if we could have educational software that could turn 75% of the kids into Einsteins.

Childhood's End - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

um

DtotheJ · (#10 (**permalink**))

It goes without saying that any adult buying a computer for children is thinking about education. it should go without saying.

I remember going of to college and being years behind kids with money in terms of technology.....and vowing that the next generation of my family wouldn't be in the same situation...and have that weird feeling that I had.

Anything I could do to supplement what the children are learning in school...and give them a leg up in any way..I will do....

I gave my first niece a speaking dictionary a few years back(and got laughed at my other sis for not giving her a toy-she'll receive enough toys from everybody else....i gave her something practical)

Nobody knows me here in real life, but I'm a bit insulted that the phrase "status symbol' even comes up.

umbrarchist · (#11 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by DtotheJ

Nobody knows me here in real life, but I'm a bit insulted that the phrase "status symbol' even comes up.

I have watched adults play status games with cars, computers and stereos and most of them don't know enough about the technology to be worth discussing the technology with. One of the funniest things to me is people with computer science degrees that don't understand electricity.

What you want kids to do with technology and what the will do with it may not be the same thing. If the tech doesn't impress the kid's friends he may toss it in a closet. You have to know and talk to the kid.

This could be as useful as a computer to some kids.

Amazon.com: Teach Yourself Electricity and Electronics: Stan Gibilisco; Stan Gibilisco, Stan Gibilisco: Books

I wish someone had given me a book like that when I was in 7th grade.

um

TheCall · (#12 (**permalink**))

If you don't mind sharing, how old is he or she? What is one strong interest of theirs? What's something you feel strongly about and want to share with them? What's something you can remember really enjoying or being interested in at their age? I ask because I have a few suggestions.

DtotheJ · (#13 (**permalink**))

I've always taken an interest in my younger relatives....
taking them to the library..reading with them.getting books for them..getting them subscriptions to sports illustrated for kids or national geographic for kids,etc..... you know-tricking them into learning.... helping them study for standardized tests.....
when I realized that they were watching a lot of TV.and the same repeat episodes all the time...I suggested to their mother that she enable the closed caption feature....so the children could get used to seeing the words in the script WRITTEN...to help their spelling.

there is a lot of learning that takes place OUTSIDE of the classroom

With the price of these netbooks and how small they are...and their specs...

you're getting like a slightly better than entry level laptop for HALF the price.....there are some good ones for 300 bucks

it's really a no brainer...

there are all types of programs for download or that can be transferred from a flash drive that the kids can use...and that their PARENTS can get for them.......I'm not around them as much as I used to be....so I want them to be able to access reference materials BY THEMSELVES....become computer literate........and have a computer that they can actually use for the next 3-4 years.

rather than buy them dumb toys or clothes that they'll outgrow...

I posed this question on BN because many people here have children and I thought i'd get useful info from your experiences....

umbrarchist · (#14 (**permalink**))

Quote:

you're getting like a slightly better than entry level laptop for HALF the price.....there are some good ones for 300 bucks

What is an entry level laptop?

One of my problems with technology is people let the corporations and marketing people tell them what to think about it. They are only going to tell you what helps them make money.

Do kids today need as much processing power as a corporation would pay $3,000,000 for in 1978?

That is what an IBM 3033 cost back then when it was introduced.

But I have run benchmarks from a 1983 magazine on modern computers. That mainframe is about equivalent to a 300 MHz Pentium.

This thing:

Running cross-compiled C code beat that mainframe running COBOL and I carry it around in my pocket.

For any school kid today it is not the processing power that affects what they can learn via the computer it is what software is put on it and what the kid uses it for.

Science Fair Projects - Solar System

The thing is back in 1978 the Operating Systems didn't use GUIs and run multimedia applications. But that Solar System simulator runs fine on my old 500 MHz laptop.

um

DtotheJ · (#15 (**permalink**))

an entry level laptop is the lowest price pc you can get from retail..............

most of us NON techs still purchase items from retail......or directly from the manufacturers..... and if you're buying for a child that you DON'T live with...best to get something from major company with service centers and warranty

processing power comes into play when multiple applications/programs are open. today's programs...not those from 20 years ago... again..we're talking about growing children(oldest will be 15 in 3 years).....and hard drive size comes into play in terms of storing data.....songs.....games....programs....

the solid state drive on some of these newer laptops are great innovation.... no moving parts.....less prone(conceivably) to damage......

there's tech talk and then there's practical talk

processor and hard drive use less energy than similarly spec entry level laptop...for half the cost.

TheCall · (#16 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by DtotheJ

I posed this question on BN because many people here have children and I thought i'd get useful info from your experiences....

I'm in no way questioning your intentions here, not at all. Don't get that idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DtotheJ

an entry level laptop is the lowest price pc you can get from retail..............

You can get a quality old laptop for as low as 100 dollars/pounds, and I'm sure there are cheaper ones out there. You can get a brand new one for 200, and I'm sure there are deals even lower than that.

Quote:

most of us NON techs still purchase items from retail......or directly from the manufacturers..... and if you're buying for a child that you DON'T live with...best to get something from major company with service centers and warranty

Warranties are typically no more than a year, and usually after about a year batteries die, systems have all kinds of foul ups, and company service centers only offer these things when you contact them:

1. Purchase new parts(and software)at ten times what should be charged.
2. Pay for expensive tech service.
3. Pay for an extended warranty or support.

The majority of the time doing any of these things only results in still having the same problems and spending more money.

Quote:

processing power comes into play when multiple applications/programs are open. today's programs...not those from 20 years ago... again..we're talking about growing children(oldest will be 15 in 3 years).....and hard drive size comes into play in terms of storing data.....songs.....games....programs....

There are millions of programs out there that don't require serious processing power. Hard drive space means nothing when you can get a 1gig stick drive for 15 pounds/dollars or less, when tons of websites offer several gigs of storage for free, and when you can get an old system with 40gigs of storage for 50 dollars/pounds. As far as open programs and just performance in general, it comes back to the user. You can have all the power in the world and still deal with constant problems. That's where system tweaks, sensible choices, and alternative software comes into play.

umbrarchist · (#17 (**permalink**))

Quote:

when you can get an old system with 40gigs of storage for 50 dollars/pounds.

I think people need to be careful with used hard drives. Whether purchased as just drives or in an old computer. I tend to assume a drive will crash in 3 to 5 years of normal use. By that I mean about 2000 hours of operation per year. Some companies leave their computers on 24 hours a day though.

It is possible to read the hours of operation of drives with the SMART feature. I have seen drives with 13,000 hours. Price the computer, ignore the drive. If you spend hundreds of hours creating graphics or something and the drive crashes the savings is not worth it. Yeah do backups but there is always a time gap and people procrastinate. New drives are just so cheap now. Used ones are not worth the savings. 200 gig for $50. Incredible!

It makes me want to cry.

I paid $600 for my first hard drive. It was TWENTY MEGABYTES

I couldn't download a video from Youtube and put it on that.

ROFLMBAO

um

TheCall · (#18 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by umbrarchist

If you spend hundreds of hours creating graphics or something and the drive crashes the savings is not worth it. Yeah do backups but there is always a time gap and people procrastinate. New drives are just so cheap now. Used ones are not worth the savings. 200 gig for $50. Incredible!

um

$50 flat? cool.

Still comes back to the user though, don't you think? Your data isn't only in trouble on a clunker. People prove that one every day. lol

umbrarchist · (#19 (**permalink**))

It looks like the netbooks are more closely derived from the OLPC than I thought.

But how do we use them for educational purposes?

The Netbook Effect: How Cheap Little Laptops Hit the Big Time

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umbrarchist · (#20 (**permalink**))

Netbooks and Education!

1. Intro

2. Classroom

3. Teaching

More Netbooks

um

umbrarchist · (#21 (**permalink**))

I finally did it. I got my hands on some netbooks. I went to a technology seminar for vendors yesterday and got to test 3 netbooks. The benchmark I used was from the January 1983 BYTE magazine but I added a few enhancements to it so it now calculates and displays its performance and lists a few of the results from 1983. I heard at least four people at the seminar disparaging netbooks as being of very limited capabilities.

Everyone tries to compare things to what is latest and greatest today. The computer I use most is a custom built machine based on an ASUS motherboard with a 2.66 GHz Pentium 4. It wasn't the fastest thing going in 2005 but just the mobo and CPU cost me more than $400. I named it Blackjack because the case is black and it is listed in the benchmarks below. My Archos PMA400 pocket computer is also listed. The Archos retailed for $800 but I bought it off Ebay for $300.

I tested 3 netbook which all had Intel Atom processors at 1.6 GHz. I checked a Lenovo, an ASUS Eee PC and some NO NAME Tiawnese clone netbook that the salesmen didn't even know the name of.

They all came up with exactly 0.0022 on the benchmark.

I also took some MP3 files on the USB stick and tried to play them to check the sound quality. I couldn't get the Lenovo to produce any sound. Windows media player was running and producing that light show in time with the music but no sound. The salesman coudn't get it going either. I got the ASUS and the NO NAME to play but the sound was really low. They had a DJ playing music so it wasn't a quiet environment but I think the sound was unacceptable. I tried my PMA400 for comparison and it was about the same in that environment. I almost never turn on the speaker with the Archos. It is just about worthless without headphones.

But the important point is that 0.0022 on the benchmark. The netbooks were 3 1/2 times as fast as the $3,000,000 1978 mainframe running Assembly language while my benchmark was compiled C. The compiled C on the netbooks was 16 times as fast as compiled PL/I on that mainframe. So the real question is, "Why do you need more processing power than that in a portable format?" Why not have a powerful desktop at home to do your heavy lifting and use the netbook on the go. Is the real problem simply that today's software is too bloated and inefficient?

So I see no reason not to think that these netbooks should be perfect for school kids. If anything they almost have to be OVER POWERED for grade school kids. So how do we mold the future with today's sci-fi technology that we now have at our fingertips?

Code:

 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

100,000 iterations

  Start time: 2009 Fri May 22 00:41:47

  Stop  time: 2009 Fri May 22 00:42:07

The duration was 20.0     secs or 0.0020   secs for 10 loops.

1899 primes.   The Sieve enhanced by Dead C.A.T. Software.

C.A.T. == Computerized Anachronisms Test, providing Real Time perspective.

The IBM 3033 mainframe cost $3,000,000 in 1978. [You are not allowed to LAUGH!]

  --------  Data from January 1983 BYTE Magazine  --------  

Computer       Language                   Seconds

IBM 3033       Assembly                    0.0078  fastest CPU+SWare tested
IBM 3033       PL/I                        0.036   21.7% efficient
IBM 3033       COBOL                       0.0824   9.5% efficient
68000 8 MHz    Assembly                    0.49
VAX-11/780     C (UC Berkley)              1.42
8086  8 MHz    Assembly                    1.90   100%
8086  8 MHz    C (Digital Research)        2.8     67.9% efficient
8086  8 MHz    C (Microsoft)               6.0     31.7% efficient
8086  8 MHz    C (Computer Innovations)    7.2     26.4% efficient
8088  5 MHz    Assembly  [CPU of IBM PC]   4.0    100%
IBM PC 5MHz    C (Computer Innovations)   22.0     18.2% efficient
IBM Series 1   COBOL                      38.7 
Z-80            Assembly                   6.8    100%
Z-80             C (BD Systems)           15.2     44.7% efficient
Apple II          Pascal (Apple)         160
Z-80               COBOL (MS V2.2)      5115     = 1:25:15 slowest 0.13% ef

  ----------  New tests on more recent CPUs  ----------  

TI OMAP5910 150 MHz GNU C               0.0522 Archos PMA400 Linux
Pent 2 300  MHz     GNU C               0.0148
Pent 3 500  MHz     GNU C               0.0087
Pent 3 1.3  GHz     GNU C               0.0035
Pent 3 1.8  GHz     GNU C               0.0024
Pent 4 2.66 GHz     GNU C   Blackjack   0.0020 Single-Core 1 program
Pent 4 2.66 GHz     GNU C               0.0040 Single-Core 2 programs
Pent 2D 2.8 GHz     GNU C               0.0019 Dual-Core   1 program
Pent 2D 2.8 GHz     GNU C               0.0019 Dual-Core   2 programs

um

DtotheJ · (#22 (**permalink**))

OK..

umb, I'm gonna go ahead and apologize to you for being rude before.

I just thought that since many people on this board have children..and some work in IT.....that I'd be able to get real world answers to my questions about netbooks...

I didn't appreciate the tech tone that I was getting.....when all I needed were thumbs and thumbs down and valid reasons...

I got the feeling that no matter how i answered any of your questions that you would find a way to knock what I was doing.

anyway

peace..

Shemsi en Tehuti · (#23 (**permalink**))

Believe I am just seeing this thread...

I am currently ordering a netbook for dual use for my wife and work of strictly office-type nature (Microsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc.). Furthermore, it is just about the only simple machine you can buy that still has Windows XP on it, as I refuse to get any machine that has Vista or even Windows 7 as its host Operating System. Perhaps there will be a thread later where I can elaborate on my killer workstation-in-progress to mitigate this dilemma.

Anyhow...I may even buy a 2nd netbook if it proves that useful. As long as you aren't doing anything more intense than email, office documents, moderate Internet browsing/research, etc., then the netbook is absolutely perfect in my opinion. It will free up my more highly powered and resourced laptop and workstation from menial tasks.

Hope my input helped...

Agu Bu Oji- · (#24 (**permalink**))

Sony viao... the SR series, getting mine sent over from the states specifically, not available here in the UK... agree 100% with Shemsi, keep well away from microsoft, they've been well out done... its all about Linx Ubuntu

Linux Remote Access by BOMGAR | Remote Desktop Control Across Platforms

Seriously, can't wait to get my laptop and upload it, get rid of windows.... check it out...

YouTube - UBUNTU 8.04 Desktop Effects

Agu Bu Oji- · (#25 (**permalink**))

Sony SR series... badass.

Main thing though is the operating system, like Shemshi said, got to get rid of windows they've even got a new new version coming out at the end of the year because vista is such a let down... its all about Linx, Ubuntu...

YouTube - UBUNTU 8.04 Desktop Effects

Can partition the drive and have both windows (XP, keep away from vista) and Linx on the same computer if you wanted, can't wait to use it... virus free.