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25-04-08, 06:33 PM
Double posting
VK in Brazil,Argentina, Ecuador and Bolivia: Extreme Advance Engineering, Machine & Equipment Designers, and Manufacturer for Onshore and Offshore Petroleum and Gas Systems. Designing For Land Surface and Subsea, 10 miles beneath the Ocean Floor. Houston, Texas.
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25-04-08, 06:43 PM
VK, I was not twisting your words, in fact I agreed with you that its a shame that groups of African people from the same country could not converse without a European language.
My reply included general commentary on the whole thread, not just what you wrote.
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25-04-08, 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryek
Sorry VK, but China, Korea and India are poor examples to use. Last time I checked China, Korea and India were countries not entire continents. Far East Asians actually don't have a unifying language and they seem to be doing pretty well for themselves. As for Indians many of the people living in India don't even speak Hindi. My best friend is from South India and she tells me that many of the people in those regions have their own local languages and don't speak Hindi. For instance, she grew up in India but she still needs to buy Bollywood dvds with subtitles in English because she doesn't understand Hindi.
Anyway, if you people want West Africans to warm up to the idea of adopting Swahili (which is probably not going to happen), you're going to have to do better than calling us jealous, arrogant, blah, blah, blah. The truth is that Swahili, although orginally a Bantu language, is heavily Arabizied. The language developed out of the East African/Arab trade so essentially it has a strong Arabic influence, there's no denying that. While I'm not against a universal African language, I don't think you're going to be able to sell Swahili to West Africans. Especially when no WA country speaks the language.
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So what do you propose instead? Like I said, bring forth a solution or another alternative language if there is one and lets all have a look at it. Because I find it a damn shame that school children in many a Country resort to English or French, many magazines and Newspapers in African Countries are in English or French, the TV announcements of important Political issues are in English or French and the Official Languages are either English or French in most cases and people within the SAME COUNTRY have to resort to speaking English of French just to communicate among Folks from different tribes.   And we are happy to be labled as Anglophones, Francophones and gladly look forward to attending the Annual Anglophone and Francophone Conferences organized by Massa each year. And just clock this, even the so called English speaking Countries in Africa are joining the Francophone league and are now members attending each year to the chagrin and disgust of the So called French Speaking African Countries. Just check the reaction of the President of Gabon who threw a temper tantrum upon learning that West African English Speaking Countries and other English speaking Countries in the East and South were invited to attend the French Francophone conference. 
We don't have to sell anything Aryek, but the African Union with the endorsement of West African leaders are the ones selling Swahili. I am all for the use of one unifying language be it Hausa, Wolof, Twi, swahili or Zulu. To me that makes it easier for me to communicate with other Africans.
As for the Indians not all speaking Hindi, that might be a possibility but that is the official language there and many people there speak it. Same arguement can be said of Africans in Ghana for instance. Since the official Language is English I assume, I can equally say that not all Ghanaians understand it or can speak it fluently. If one goes to Uganda for instance, one can find Ugandans in Uganda who do not understand a single word of Swahili despite them living in Uganda. Just check the karamoja areas and other remote parts to clock that.
VK in Brazil,Argentina, Ecuador and Bolivia: Extreme Advance Engineering, Machine & Equipment Designers, and Manufacturer for Onshore and Offshore Petroleum and Gas Systems. Designing For Land Surface and Subsea, 10 miles beneath the Ocean Floor. Houston, Texas.
Last edited by Vubundada_Kandaba; 25-04-08 at 07:07 PM.
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25-04-08, 07:13 PM
I do not want to make generalizations here but from living in North and East Africa, I have noticed that many people there take pride in learning as many languages as they can with the average being 5-6 languages including regional languages like Amharic and Swahili in addition, yet they are still fluent in their "Tribal/Ethnic" languages. I certainly won't mind learning as many African dialects as I can. Many of my relatives in Africa can speak atleast 6 different languages. I don't know how prevalent that may be in other parts of Africa.
VK in Brazil,Argentina, Ecuador and Bolivia: Extreme Advance Engineering, Machine & Equipment Designers, and Manufacturer for Onshore and Offshore Petroleum and Gas Systems. Designing For Land Surface and Subsea, 10 miles beneath the Ocean Floor. Houston, Texas.
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25-04-08, 07:58 PM
English may be the "official" language of Ghana, but twi is the lingua franca of Ghana. The Ghanian goverment for reasons that only they know of, decided to promote English as our official language when the country got it's independence. I guess they figured that the whole world would be speaking English so we might as well. But despite their efforts, most Ghanians, not just the Akan, speak twi. Most of our songs, television programs and whatnot are in twi. And in school, we learn to write both twi and English. Twi is also the language we use to communicate between tribes in Ghana. An official language is not always the lingua franca, hence why I brought up Hindi.
You're saying that Africans need a langauge that we can communicate with each other with and you're suggesting that Swahili should be it. Since many East and Central Africans speak the language and are not resistent to adopting it as a universal language, they're not really the people that you or the AU has to convince but West Africans, no? What I'm saying is that if you look at this from a practical standpoint, it's not going to be feasible without contact between West Africans and other Africans. Most languages spread because of conquest, hence why Arabic is being used all over the Middle East, and in few a instances, trade. East and Central Africans essentially adopted Swahili because of trade. So in trying to promote Swahili among West Africans, who don't even have Swahili speaking neighbours, simply telling them that we need a secret language to communicate among ourselves because whitey might be listening, isn't going to be a good enough reason. Most Africans usually only come into contact with other African cultures when they move out of Africa. And without direct contact between West Africans and other Africans while they are on the continent, you can't really establish Swahili as the lingua franca (which I think should be what the AU should be aiming for) of Africa.
I'm not against Africans adopting Swahili, I had an ex from Kenya and I tried to learn it just so we could a language other than English to communicate with. Believe me, I understand your frustration with Africans not having a common language. But in order to pave the way for Swahili or any other language to be adopted by all Africans, we first need to establish some real contact with each other, not just between our governments and not just when we move to the West. And this is why I said that throwing around the usual West African stereotypes, not that you were doing that, those people know who they are, isn't going to help.
Last edited by Aryek; 25-04-08 at 08:03 PM.
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25-04-08, 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryek
English may be the "official" language of Ghana, but twi is the lingua franca of Ghana. The Ghanian goverment for reasons that only they know of, decided to promote English as our official language when the country got it's independence. I guess they figured that the whole world would be speaking English so we might as well. But despite their efforts, most Ghanians, not just the Akan, speak twi. Most of our songs, television programs and whatnot are in twi. And in school, we learn to write both twi and English. Twi is also the language we use to communicate between tribes in Ghana. An official language is not always the lingua franca, hence why I brought up Hindi.
You're saying that Africans need a langauge that we can communicate with each other with and you're suggesting that Swahili should be it. Since many East and Central Africans speak the language and are not resistent to adopting it as a universal language, they're not really the people that you or the AU has to convince but West Africans, no? What I'm saying is that if you look at this from a practical standpoint, it's not going to be feasible without contact between West Africans and other Africans. Most languages spread because of conquest, hence why Arabic is being used all over the Middle East, and in few a instances, trade. East and Central Africans essentially adopted Swahili because of trade. So in trying to promote Swahili among West Africans, who don't even have Swahili speaking neighbours, simply telling them that we need a secret language to communicate among ourselves because whitey might be listening, isn't going to be a good enough reason. Most Africans usually only come into contact with other African cultures when they move out of Africa. And without direct contact between West Africans and other Africans while they are on the continent, you can't really establish Swahili as the lingua franca (which I think should be what the AU should be aiming for) of Africa.
I'm not against Africans adopting Swahili, I had an ex from Kenya and I tried to learn it just so we could a language other than English to communicate with. Believe me, I understand your frustration with Africans not having a common language. But in order to pave the way for Swahili or any other language to be adopt by all Africans, we first need to establish some real contact with each other, not just between our governments and not just when we move to the West. And this is why I said that throwing around the usual West African stereotypes, not that you were doing that, those people know who they are, isn't going to help.
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In my opinion, this was perhaps the most important post of this thread, which is why I am always advocating Pan-African agendas in terms of economics, business, and trade. You are absolutely correct that we need more contact with each other to legitimize the need for a unifying language. I feel that promoting trade and business development in the Diaspora with different African nations will intrinsically manifest the need to use Swahili or some other language as the official trade language between the Continent and Diaspora, and Intra-Continental trade between African nations.
A Luta Continua—Lasima Tushinde Mbilishaka
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25-04-08, 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryek
I'm not against Africans adopting Swahili, I had an ex from Kenya and I tried to learn it just so we could a language other than English to communicate with. Believe me, I understand your frustration with Africans not having a common language. But in order to pave the way for Swahili or any other language to be adopted by all Africans, we first need to establish some real contact with each other, not just between our governments and not just when we move to the West. And this is why I said that throwing around the usual West African stereotypes, not that you were doing that, those people know who they are, isn't going to help.
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Alright Aryek, cool!!!
How about this hypothetical scenario. Assuming that Eastern, Central and Southern African Countries agree upon Swahili and we ask the West Africans to bring forth one language of their choosing so we mix the two together to form a language that is 60% Swahili and 40% West African, how will that sound? I come up with the figure base on population assuming that East, West and South make up 60% of the Sub-Saharan population. I see many Africans mixing their native tongues with English or French, we certainly can do this by mixing Swahili with one West African language. The question then remains, Will people in west Africa agree on one language that they can bring forth for such an endeavor?
But I agree we need to have more contacts with each other and trade more and maybe then, maybe Swahil or any other language will be accepted more easily. I also remember former Nigerian President Olesegun Obasanjo saying that he see's no reason why Swahili is NOT taught as a Class in Nigeria, being that French is offered as a subject? He said it makes perfect sense to offer Swahili in school as a class unto itself in his Country. It was in an interview in magazine and I can't remember which magazine it was. 
VK in Brazil,Argentina, Ecuador and Bolivia: Extreme Advance Engineering, Machine & Equipment Designers, and Manufacturer for Onshore and Offshore Petroleum and Gas Systems. Designing For Land Surface and Subsea, 10 miles beneath the Ocean Floor. Houston, Texas.
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25-04-08, 11:17 PM
I think mixing two languages would be fine if West Africans could decide on which language to use. But that's not really what I'm advocating here. I mean most Africans speak more than one language anyway and since our languages essentially derive from three major languages it's not really that hard to pick up some things from other langauges. For instance, some Ivorian dialects have words that are really close to twi and eventhough, I don't really know these languages, I'm sure that I could easily pick them up if I spent enough time with Ivorians.
The same thing can be aruged with Swahili, there are West Africans who speak Arabic and the Bantu-language family has roots in West Africa so given enough contact between West Africans and Swahili speakers most people could easily develop the language even without formal education. And yes, if we're going to be teaching French in African schools then we should certainly be teaching Swahili and other African languages. It kind of saddens me that some of our languages are disappearing.
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26-04-08, 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Lion
Ok.. make it unspecific. Lets say an African Language in general. Said Swahili because Idi mentioned it, its use as a trading language throughout the continent it also makes it a good candidate...
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bantu and its various dialects!!!
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