Public backs ID cards but balks at £40 fee, poll says
By Stephen Robinson/daily Telegraph
(Filed: 08/09/2003)


The public overwhelmingly supports the idea of compulsory identity cards, says a YouGov opinion poll published today in The Telegraph. But it strongly objects to having to pay £40 for them.

Seven per cent of those asked were so opposed to the cards that they said they would refuse to acquire or carry one. This suggests that if the Government introduces legislation for cards this year, as expected, the police would have to act against some three million "refuseniks".



Members of the Cabinet are at loggerheads over the scheme.

David Blunkett, the Home Secretary, supports it and Tony Blair is backing him. But opponents say it will be difficult to enforce and that the £40 fee will prove highly unpopular as the next election approaches.

More than three quarters of people canvassed supported the principle of a national ID card, but a majority said they should be free.

Most people believed that cards would be helpful in countering benefit fraud, "health tourism" and illegal immigration.

The poll also showed that a quarter of respondents felt the cards would reduce their sense of freedom and two thirds expected that criminals would soon learn how to forge them.

Half of respondents believed that information collected in creating a national identity system would be passed on to agencies outside the Government.

A compulsory ID card system was used during the Second World War.

War-time ID documents were pieces of cardboard, but Mr Blunkett favours a scheme involving technology that would contain unique biometric information, such as the holder's fingerprint or a scan of the iris.

The Home Office puts the cost of the system at £1.5 billion. Industry experts say it could be three times that.

blkbowdownFredblack I think you may have taken my mantle as the most prolific 'long tings' writer, I will reply to this and the other post you directed at me on another thread when I have time to respond properly and do it justice...

Whine whine whine.

Only those who are defrauding the Social Security system need worry.

Only those who are in this country illegally need worry.

What's the problem?

I'll tell you. There are those moaning minnies in this country who see the state as the enemy. Who side with those that would defraud the system - who would turn a 'blind eye' to illegal immigration. Why don't they just come out and say that they would like to see the overthrow of present system; that they would like to see border controls removed - rather than pretend that this is some sort of civil liberties issue.

It's like those people who complain about CCTV. What's the problem, if you've nothing to hide?

Morris

HOME COUNTIES HEART, HOME COUNTIES MIND

Morris wrote:
Morris: first of all you'll notice that I haven't yet given an opinion either way, however regardless of whether I agree with the ID card or not... My view is that I think there is something deeply worrying when the present goverment has trailed and tested public opinion at least 3 time in the recent past. On each occassion there has been a resounding disapproval of this idea, now on the back of 9/11 they under the cover of public anxiety, they bring back this system into focus as a cure all. Even when most experts agree that ID cannot deter Terrorism, cannot deter illegal immigration... So it is legitimate to ask what is the hidden agenda for this proposal because there is definate one somewhere..

Moreover having brought this idea back again, they (the goverment,) now expect us to pay for the privilage of having ourselves immersed in their half baked idea..Sorry in any language that is a flippin cheek..

The fact is Morris and a recent BBC documentary proved this beyond doubt, the reason why many so called illegal workers are here unchecked is NOT because of a lack of id.. They are issued with ID's already, it is NOT because they are not fingerprinted, because that happens already too.. The fact is the infrastructure to control and to detect fraud and misuse is like everything else underfunded, ill concieved and immersed in institutional stupidty.. Added to this that same programme demostrated that they can forge any document any id to a high standard. Yet Iamnow being asked to pay for a mess of this goverments own making..nah sahi say bollox to that..too

Lastly and this is THE most important bit here morris, you sayblkhailer 'whats the problem' well its simply this..this goverment can't be trusted... They have been caught in too many lies and in too many conspiracy to decieve and con the public..the lastest being the 'war on Iraq' where we were given personal assurances that have now proved to beunfounded and to be a total lie...

Now you expect the public never mind the Africans in this country to trust this PM and this goverment that this isn't a Civil liberties issue or that it won't become a civil liberties issue in the future...Sorry Morris i have to say they either breed them very stupid or extremely naive in the HOME COUNTIES...either that or they didn't quite get around to teaching you how to read your daily mail properly...only a fool would now believe anything this goverment said ..only a fool

@ Fredblack

I sorry (Kunjufu got in there first) but I will come back to your post here and on another topic. Brother I start to read then when I scroll down I see it goes on and onand on and well I will get back to you Fredblack aka Mr Long Tings Alert writes a thesis every damn time he postblktypeits all good thoughblkrainbowfroI'll get back to you.



@Kunjufu

Yep your right the title is no longer yours brother is now belongs to blksshwell he needs no introduction

Fredblack wrote:

FredBlack: blkdevillol Yes without doubt you have got the mantle 'best writer' damn your good...I especially liked the obsevation on 'whinging'..I COULD NOT AGREE MORE, i was absolutely rolling up over the first three paragraphs of your last post..these has got to be modern Blacknetclassics already..

Ok on amore serious note, I take your point entirely on entertaining Europeans in our space, I would say in Morris's defence on this occassion is that what you read is what you get, whether I agree with him or not.. He has never pretended to be anything other than a left of centre conservative, (i hope tht is correct if not I'm sure he'll correct thatASumption.) And i have always respect (not agreed) with his view because it is an honest one..

I have always taken the Garvey view that Europeans are Welcome to contribute, provided that they observe the protocol of a guest in someone elses house and remember that they are amonst equals...so as far as i'm concerned so long as Morris can tekhis licks like a MAN..THEN COOL I 'll debate with him so long as he doesn't tek step or pass his place on this board..overwise he know what will happen!!!

Getting back to the issue of ID cards,his comments don't surprise me as hisview point is indicative of Wannabeblacks and white Middle England who have the luxury of knowing that creeping facism is thereto protect not attack them... unfortunately as I'm sure you already know that is NOT a luxury we (Africans) can buy into.....

Kunjufu

Firstly, contrary to what you may think, public opinion is strongly behind the idea of National Identity Cards, but they want ‘something for nothing’ and don’t want to pay for it. Napoleon was right.

It is irrelevant whether ID cards work in all cases. I’m sure they won’t. But they will work In most cases, and they will act as a deterrent for a lot of people. And that is better than nothing. You may as well say that passports should be abolished because some people get through customs on fake ones. Or that the tube companies should stop charging their customers, because some people successfully evade paying their fares by using fake travel cards .

If your objection is based on a mistrust of this government - fear not, the scheme will take years to implement, and by that time we shall have a Tory government, who, of course, can be trusted to run it properly.

Also, what exactly do you mean by ‘civil liberties issues’? This term seems to be bandied about in the media as though we all understand what it refers too. In the narrow context of ID cards, I really can’t see what the big deal is. Most of the rest of the world has them, and you don’t hear of huge problems, do you?

That said, I am not insensitive to the issues surrounding, for example, the SUS laws and the potential for misuse by the police in stopping people in the street on a regular basis because they don’t like the look of them. Of course there are oppotunities for abuse - there are in everything - but the challenge to any civilised society is too face those who would missuse their power - not accept that they will always be there. In other words, rather than accept that these people will abuse their positions - get rid of the people.

But, as far as I know, the cards are not meant to carried at all times, but are simply a tangiable proof of citizenship, on which a record of one’s medical, and state-related financial history is stored. What’s the big deal, if you’ve nothing to hide?

@ Fredblack

I obviously won't bother saying very much to you as I'm not worthy of a response, but I couldn't help noticing a few thing in amongst your paranoid ramblings.

"Moreover, I am a highly educated man..."

"Senior Judges, Chief Constables and a range highly regarded authorities, such as myself in various disciplines."

You've got a high opinion of yourself, haven't you?

"Poor Kelly was in the lions den, being investigated by Special branch and god knows who else and was set up."

Who are you kidding. People did all they could to survive the horrors of the Holocaust and the regime of Pol Pot. And what does 'Poor Kelly' do? - Kills himself because he has the prospect of a telling-off from his superiours. What a light-weight. What sort of man would put his family through all this, rather than face the music himself.

And finally. So what, that some eminent people think that the ID cards are a bad idea? Don't be such an awe-struck sheep. Eminent people can be wrong sometimes, too. Make your own mind up.

And finally, finally... I hope that you don't come over as such an arrogant tosser in real life, or you're going to have real problems.

Morris: what is true is that most of white middle class Englandmay wantthe ID card, and even this i would personally doubt. It is NOT true to say that this applies to non whites.. The fact is Morris, as the goverment well knows most people already carry enough proof of ID, so it is relivant to ask why we are now being asked to carry yet another form of ID and for what purpose.. If as you now accept that it won't be a fool proof strategy.. It does beg the question why bother, the very people it is aimed at, can and will evade its effectiveness.

You ask what is the issue regarding Civil liberties..again i say spoken like a true 'middle Englander'.. you then state that 'as far as you know the cards are not meant to be carried at all times'.. If this were true (its not by the way,) why bother to introduce an ID system at all, what then is its purpose if not to readily identify...?

The fact is Morris yet again you miss the point, if the Africans are already stated to be 10X more likely to be stopped now, under stop & search rules.. What is the likelihood that this will increase, If as seems likely it will become compulsory to produce this card either when requested or later at a policestation..how long before we have a disporportionate amount of Africans being had up for not doing so.. The fear is that this system will become yet another new gateway from which to criminalise specific sections of our community..

If as in the case today the police are now seriously misusing their powers under the Terrorism Act to stop & search and to prevent access to 'sensitive' areas.. How long before the ID is used as a new weapon to clamp down on agitators, trouble makers and all those we want to isolate for various politicalreasons ..

Now you're trying to have meseriously believe you don't get it, just how dangerous or just how close we are from crossing the line from population control to facism... You know your European history, go back and study the facist states and their creation and tell me there is not a similar pattern between then and now.. No I do not agree with this move, it is half baked, ill concieved and with poor checks and balances, will lead to oppression..

Btw the only way you tories will get in next, (which is possible.) is if New Labour (thelastest incarnation of one nation Torism.) continue to shoot themselves in both feet.. otherwise Mr no personality has NO CHANCE....blkfishslap

@ Fredblack

Well I've read it all now and all I am going to say before I go to bed is I like your style and the way you express yourself.....witty intelligent and SO DAMN TRUE!

@ Fredblack

“Why is he stunned that there are highly educated black men?�

He’s not. I’ve been visiting this site for more than two years, and in that time I’ve conversed with some people who have truly awesome intellects. But they won’t need to make room for you in that particular pantheon.

“ Since when has having a 'high opinion of yourself an offense.�

There is a distinct difference between someone who is aware of his own worth (but doesn’t feel the need to shout it from the roof tops) and someone who is a big-headed, self-important, arrogant tosser.

“If he could read, he will see many of our nations/tribes viewed them in contempt. The fanti would not even allow a white man to look a Fanti man in the face when talking, they were seen so low, “

Is this kind of attitude something to be proud of - something to be held up as an example of reasonable behavior?

A couple of years ago there was a long-running thread on this site which was set up to gather positive information about African culture and history, both in the continent and in the Diaspora. Even for a ‘wazungu’, it was very interesting. But your kind of Afrika-Facts would have been anathema to the spirit of that thread, because yours are all negative and mean-spirited. Do you really think that Black people have the need to make themselves look good by putting White people down? If you do, you’ve a far lower estimation of the integrity of Black people that I do.


"...just using you as the backboard, to slap this wazungu back in his place"

Yeah, right. In your dreams.

MORRIS