Layabout

Yeah real funny, do you know they used to sell the Bulldog newspaper outside upton park??

West Ham fans are no joke trust me I work with them. Im not talking all of them and the familes who go to watch games etc, Im talking those men who were kicking about in the 80s and have had to curb their racist behaviour to fit in now. Do you think their beliefs have changed? Or that they raise their children to be racially aware? hmph! Ill tell you now they havent changed one bit... Im not talking all white people obviously but its a lot... Some of these people have positions of power.

To tell me that Racism doesnt affect me is silly, I can smile and whistle my happy tune and the evils of the world wont touch me, is that what you believe? HAH!!

Does my happy tune and smile stop me being discriminated against when I go for a job? Does this happy tune make the psychiatrist see me as sane or will he commit me, Will the judge give me the same sentance as a white man for the same crime because Im happy? Will the police mind their own business? Will the mainstream media stop degrading and belittling me because Im smiling?

Get real mate, racism must be recognised as such before we can discuss it, to simply deny these things is suspicious itself..... Its not racist to recognise sneaky racism

@layabout (i know who you are by the way..or you have a sister)

Your logic is flawed. Non-white countries don't have a similar history to white countries. Many white countries just like black countries could not control their destiny as much as they would like to. It does not mean white people any better or worse than black people, even looking at the world you see today.

WHATS THAT GOT TO DO WITH ANYTHING? MANY WHITE COUNTRIES SOUGHT TO AND SUCCEEDED IN CONTROLLING THE DESTINIES OF COUNTRIES WORLDWIDE. WHEN THEY HAD NO BUSINESS BEING THERE.IT RESULTED IN THE SO CALLED STANDARD OF LIVING YOU HAVE HERE.NOW!.WHAT REVELANCE HAS THIS TO WHAT I SAID TO BLACK AVIATOR BY THE WAY?


I doubt that Britain would keep up immigration of non-whites and emmigration of whites to a point where it would be non-white by 2100. However, I may be wrong and it does not matter to me much in any case. I DONT GIVE A SHIT EITHER. THIS AINT MY COUNTRY.

I do not believe that Britain would be better or worse off it the country was white or non-white by the end of the 21st century. It's the journey over the 21st century, that counts, not the "destination" you talk of. The racial mix of country and the way it changes is a journey, like life, to me it's just like the weather....it's never going to stay the same. PUT THE POETRY IN THE POETRY THREAD. LETS LOOK AT THE RACIAL MIX OF HOW THE U.S. OF A. CHANGED. OR INDEED ANY NON EUROPEAN COUNTRY WITH MAJORITY WHITE POPULATIONS. GENOCIDE. SO DONT TELL ME OF JOURNEYS OR DESTINATIONS.

Anyone who possibly thinks that Britain with a minority of whites is going to be better or worse, simply because the racial mix has changed so, sadly doesn't have much faith in the human spirit.

AGAIN WHO CARES. WHY SHOULD BRITAIN HAVE A MINORITY OF WHITES IN THIER COUNTRY. ITS A WHITE COUNTRY FOR F*** SAKE. ARE YOU PROPOSING THAT THE MAJORITY OF AFRICAN COUNTRIES SHOULD HAVE MAJORITY WHITE POPLULATIONS. AND THAT IT WONT BE BETTER OR WORSE FOR AFRICANS.

COME WITH SOME LOGIC YOU TWAT. OR NEXT TIME IT WILL BE TWO CHOICE WORDS.

THATS ALL YOUR TYPE WARRANTS.

Respect to all indigenous Americans out there. For it is they that I think coined the thrase: WHITE MEN SPEAK WITH FORKED TONGUES.

Every post I counter you edit with supreme skill and yet change the goalposts of the argument.

And Im still scoring. Hey..confused3

Well layabout we will continue this..

But not at the beat of your drum.

Until Anon.

Layabout wrote: [/quote]

In respect of this discussion and Layabouts comments (see above) I have to say that the above is one of THE most naive comment I've read on the issue of racism. You knw the great thing about history is if you learn it properly you can see the cycles of mantra's and ideology as they inevitably resurface time and time again..

In this context i was particularly struck by the thought that things will 'change' once children grow up mixing/playing with other cultures. Funny that because I remember that being said in the 60's, 70's 80's, 90's and now in the 21st century... how is it pray tell that given four plus decades this mythicalogical change still hasn't happened, why is it that in the 21st century of information technology that instead of greater understanding we have an ever worsening racial discrimination problem in THIS country.

Could it be that Racism isn't in fact about ignorance as Layabout seems to think and that it might just be about 'power'. Power to maintain the privilage status of the haves over the have nots...If I'm right I argue that racism will never be eradicated, and it certain doesn't appear to be lessening if anything things are gradually getting worse.

Taking about 'positive attutudes' and sticks and stone, the problem with Layabout theory was perfect and horribly undermined in my family recently. My happily go lucky Brother, (who btw thinks white folks are is friend), ended up in hospital with serious Kidney & Spleen damage after his 'positive attitude' failed to prevent a mob of racist kicking and hitting the living daylights out of him with an iron bar, funny that innit.. In fact he was lucky by all accounts to still be alive..

How then could Layabout's strategy have prevented this mob who had been baiting him for years, from coming to his house, calling him a n.igger and then attempting to kill him? I'm personally quite curious, is it possible that my brother misheard being called a '******' and misunderstood when they told him they were going to kill him and that they had long since had a desire to do just that.. What should he have said i wonder?

And do you know the funny thing about all this, my brother the 'positive' chap that he is, is convinced that these gits will get a heavy sentence for their crime, he is convinced that the police will turn up on time when he presses his special buzzer. He is convinced that these guys once punished will have learnt their lesson. I really didn't have the heart to tell him that he might as well gopiss in the wind,because I know given his location in KENT and the way the law works he'd be lucky if any of them gets a custodial sentence never mind learnanything other than how not to get caught next time they attempt to kill him.. But I suppose according to Layabout I'm the 'negative' one here...

Yep and this is the person running around here calling people racist and other things....


FBconfused2

Fred: do you remember that Muslim of Carribean origin who got caught making death threats on audio tape when he was speaking at a 'private' function? Remember how he got 8 years forfor this 'crime', well lets sit back and compare & contrast what happens to these BNP members who were caught in film by the BBC saying and doing far worse.. Lets sit back and see if they are even brought to court and if they are in the unlikely event found guilty whether we can measure their sentence in years or months, assuming the get a custodial sentence that is...lets sit back and wait...then maybe we can then discuss with Layabout whether this is 'racism'.

Kunjufu wrote......."Taking about 'positive attutudes' and sticks and stone, the problem with Layabout theory was perfect and horribly undermined in my family recently. My happily go lucky Brother, (who btw thinks white folks are is friend), ended up in hospital with serious Kidney & Spleen damage after his 'positive attitude' failed to prevent a mob of racist kicking and hitting the living daylights out of him with an iron bar, funny that innit.. In fact he was lucky by all accounts to still be alive.. "

Kunjufu ......I'm really sorry to have read the above....its genuinely a disgraceful situation and I truly can only hope the perps. get their just desserts both in the sentence and maybe in other ways too.From what U say your brother is a really decent,honourable Man and I can only hope that he makes a full recovery from this disgusting episode......kindly let me know how he is now and perhaps in the future.Regards,CB.

Layabout; sorry but you are the one talking horse dollop here, if racism was NOt getting worse then how is it possible for a BNP candidate to win council seats consistently, How is it possible for the BNP MEP to poll over 800,000 votes. Why is Asylum and Asylum seekers such a contentious issue, whyhas the term 'political correctness' become such a dirty phrase. Why are the two most successful radio presenter in london both known as right wing 'shock jocks'. why is it that in at least 3 days out of 7 day that race is discussed on a regular occurance. Explain the raise in racial motivated physical attacks? How can you even suggest that things are not getting worse when the indicators are clearly there for all to see...

You then try to argue that racism has many reasons, my response total bollocks. Racism may manifest itsekf in many ways but the underlying issue is about 'power'. You even underline and make my point for me.. you, yourself mention the BNP and how they talk about the loss of 'power'. So tell what is it that the racist bleat on about, being sidelined in housing, welfare and NHS care by whom non whites. What is this about these people voicing the noticable loss of their own privilaged position in society. Are they suggesting an Equal balance or a rebalance where they are once again on top, go back and do your homework on this before answering..

The fact that My view mirrors the Trotskist line does not devalue either its validity or its basis in fact. Racism or the concept of RACE was INVENTED by man... By the then militarily dominant European culture in order to justify the subjugation of anothe human being as a possesion that sir is a empiricalfact. Racism was borned out ignorance or miseducation it was designed.. Designed to undersorce the need to exploit a cheap labour source..

The fact that the nature of racism has changed in context and emphasis does not mean that it is any less about 'power' 5than when it was designed. If i believed your myopic line.. I'd have to believe that in the 21st Century that people in a so call 1st first world state does not know or understand that discrimination is wrong..Pleeease that line can wash in this day and age..

The fact is people are choosing to act and behave in a way they KNOW to discriminatory simple fact...I'm saying in simple terms that just as thepolice, legal consequences and the Army are essential part of a capitalist driven society so is i content is the principle of racism... Meritocracy & equality has no real currency in Globalised capitalist economy, if it did it would be applied the fact its not is done by choice and not in ignorance..

Layabout wrote: Layabout: I really don't have worry myself on the issue of your equating me with the BNP, because I'm quite clear that my views and their have no comparisons and are certainly not similar in any way shape or form..

I also think you are missing the central point of my thoughts in regards to the BNP and the Muslim cleric. I'm saying that the muslim Cleric was dealt with harshly because of his religion and his colour. In short he was made an example of as a warning to others (us).

The BNP may have some squirming to do but they will not unless i'm mistaken get any where near the sentence this cleric got, regardless of the charges brought against them it simply won't happen.

cockneybouy wrote: .

@Kunjufu..Boy can only reinforce Cockney Bouys comment and please accept me and the missus sincerest. She gasped when I told her what happpened. When I read Kent, just shook my head because that is a strong hold of those BNP boys Welling and those areas.

Got two first cousins up in them parts, and they have similar attitudes as described but they were born there..

The naievety is what really gets me and the expensive costs of learning....

Sorry born and bred on a warfooting with those people and raise everychild that is under my influence son, nephew, neice of the need for a constant vigilence and pure amber alert and better to prempt or take evasive action. Better to harm than be harmed I check it..

Lived in shire county for years always armed to the teeth just in case come across drunk white boys with nothing better to do than put my notches on my belt for real...

Hope all goes well and your brother has a speed and proper recover and he gets some daman sense in his head....

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I do remember that Caribbean muslim cleric who made comments about Jews. They weren't slow off the mark to hammer him into the ground.

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Sorry Layabout: but I'm not buying the Apathy arguement because it don't hold water, If the Tories and New Labour aint working then why not Lib Dem or any other party? The simple fact is those people who voted for that racist party did so by choice and do so knowing their record. But in any case you have not presented an arguement that counters my claim that things are getting steadily worse.

On the issue of Asylum I actually agree with much of your analysis, you are stop on, in recognising that, unrestricted arms trade by Europe and America is certainly a major contributer to the growing displacement of Africa people. But thats not the only reason unfortunately this country and Europe are now paying the price for its centuries of capitalist misadventure in Africa having created and maintained the monster in Africa ie culture of curruption, lack of joined up, thinking in the infrusture across the continent and basically depopulating in various ways. Is it really a surprise that folks there say you know what I'm coming to where the goings good.

You claim that this country wants a break from mass immigration, well you know that would be really funny if it wasn't from the fact that the problem Europeans try to deplace onto Asylum and Asylum seekers were actually directed at the right people. I've had this debate before with another of your cohorts. The fact is there is problems in this country not because of immigration but because of the shortsightedness of the population that kept voting for short term tax gains over long term investment in the things that matter. so please call it as it is, its really about time talking about responsibility that the white people of the country took some and owned THE problem they created.

On the issue of BNP members being nice, i've got a news flash for you my enemy isn't the BNP leadership if fact they are my friend. At least they are honest and truthful about where they stand and what they would do.. No problem with that because I'm equally clear about what I would do in response. Further if you'd read me consistently i'm not one to talk about racists as being skinheads shouting obcenities at me, to me racists are those very same 'nice' people who smile and who don't like the BNP leadership butstill remain a member. My enemy just so you're absolutely clear is people racist appeasers, racistdeniersand liberals who know jack about themselves muchless my people. in short you!!!

I could give aflying rats arse whether all those nice people dislike the BNP that mean nothing to me, you're still in bed with them so like the Nuremburg principle 'I was just following orders'line aint gonna wash today.

What is also not going to wash is the mantra of daming me b