I previously posted a topic relating to the London bombings. It seemed to cause offence and anger. that was not my intention I apologise if I insulted anyone.

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What I was trying to convey is...this. As we know one of the bombers came from the black community. Furthermore, 2 of the suspects for last weeks attempted bombings could be, or appear to be black.

How do you feel this might affect the stigmatisation of Black people in this country?
Does this anger you ? How do you think this will affect race relations?

These men , from whatever community ...put their religion above the impact their actions might have on their fellow man.

What makes someone do something like that?

My previous message was criticised ..but I dont want us to put our heads in the sand and hope this problem is going to go away...black people are being targeted by radicals...what can be done?

Should anything be done?

Well the first thing that should be done is that people should not make notices that seem to suggest the only purpose a black muslim has is to be a suicide bomber that in itself is patronising and insulting. Secondly people should not feel so self rightous to come on a black forum and make a plea to all black muslim to deter them away from doing such acts as if they are so superior that see and know everything.

Yes some black muslims did carry out these bombings on London and everyone is cautious and being extremely vigilant because of this. Only an utter idiot will not think that the black community is not going to feel the back hand of these acts along with the asian community....afterall please credit this site with a certain level of intelligence

Now what makes a suicide bomber became a suicide bomber is something that the middle east can not even answer and they have been dealing with this type of killing far longer than UK

Black people are not being targeted by Radicals some muslims are not matter how hard you try you can not seperate the religion from the race on this issue if you do that you are playing right into the hands of the white man.

It will effect race relations if we allow it too but if had read some of the post on this site when one of the bombers were announced as Jamaican the majority said that was nasty tactics of the media because what he done and why he done it had nothing to do with his Jamaican heritage.

So many answers to your questions have already been answered in the numerous threads that have been created in regards to the bombing and shooting.

Blacknet Village; despite my long and detailed comments pointing out the flaws in his last posts and its lack of sensitivity..Phil has decided to repost his question again..

In a minute I will on a point by point basis drive a coach and horse through his false perspective, however I am also going to ask that anyone replying to PHIL does not insult him, name call or swear after or to him.. If that happens i will remove the post without warning..

What i want is for people to tell him in clear calulated terms why he does not KNOW what he is talking about ok..




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Phil;

1. The is no 'seem' about it, your first post was highly OFFENSIVE, I would thought better of you if you just admitted your error and took responsibility for YOUR mistake with offsetting by remarks about my over 'sensitivity'..

2. Whilst it is true that one of the terrorist from the first bombing was BLACK, it is NOT true that he came from or his actions were motivated by the BLACK community.. So your first thread based on this premise was insulting.... The facts are Phil, that this 19 year old terrorist, was born in Jamaica but was acvtually RAISED in the UK..from the age of 5(five) months (please go and check the facts for yourself on this), he therefore came from the UK community not the 'BLACK'.. This is further demostrated by his EUROPEAN partner and two mixed racechildren.. he also LIVED in a WHITE area and NOT a BLACK area or choose to associate within a so called BLACK community..

I really hope that I've made this point very very clear for you.. His ACTIONS were not GUIDED by his COLOUR, they were GUIDED by I suspect his political agenda under the guise of Islam..

Just like I could legitimately argue that Bush &Blair were guided by their POLITICAL agenda under the guise of Christianity...

3. Whilst his actions cannot be said to be a 'help' in making things safer for EVERYBODY in the UK.. the 'stigmatisation' of blacks as you call it occured well BEFORE this young man's STUPID and misguided actions. and whilst I'm very angry at his selfishness towards his family and the wider community... It is NOT our problem it is a UK problem..because that is who MADE him...

If i'm being very truthful, what angers me is that we were put in this almighty MESS in the first place.. If you want to feel anger then maybe you ought to question a Goverment that lied, and then put us in a WAR that triggered these subsequent awful events.. Had there been no Iraq, there wouldargue there would beno London bus bombs..

Did you vote labour at the last election? if so then you should look in the mirror and ask yourself why?

As for 'race relations' that has been a joke from day one, the only people who believe it actually existed is people like you up in Stoke, those of us who knew better.. already knew its principal wheren't worth the paper it was written on as we found out..last Thursday didn't we..?

3. As i pointed out to you, in my direct email to you.. these guys did not act on BEHALF of any religion..they acted on behalf of THEMSELVES and whatever mentor guided them to commit such selfish acts.. Their agenda was political and NOT religious.. I know this because they left no message, idealogy or madeany demand of a religious basis.. so where you got the idea of Religion motivating them is totally beyond me..

4. what motivates someone to do what they did.. in a word people like YOU!!!.. Myopic, selfish and spineless people like you who do NOT take responsibility when you mess up other people's lives by acting selfishly.. If as I nowsuspect that you voted Tony Blair back into power.. then you virtually told these men, that lying, invading countries, torturing and murdering 'innocent' people to depose an administration you disliked was ok.. Once people like you said that international law was meaningless.. what pray tell did you really expect to happen? You virtually gave the green light for these people to retaliate in anyway they saw fit without even international law to curb execess because we ripped that primcipal up too..

Do you imagine that you can collude with the invasion, bombing of innocent people and somehow the survivor would THANK you, well did you?

Do you imagine that it is OK to kidnapped, transport, torture and then jail without due judicial process for over three years and the people effected would somehow accept that or like it?

What did you imagine would happen when Blair and bush pissed all over the UN authority and credibility?That somehow those in Palestine, Iraq & afghanistan would be happy dancing in the street singing the praise of Tony Blair..could you really be that stupid?

Sorry Phil, but in truth after 9/11, the USA and the WEST had a glorious chance to put things right, and impose justice over injustice worldwide.. the WEST virtually had a mandate.. What did we do..? We blew it, worse we then mirrored the talk and behaviour ofstate terrorism as practised by Isreal.. we gave the Terrorist the very reason they wanted to legitimaise their tactics and their behaviour to 19 year old impressionable young fools, can you really be surpised at the outcome..? Why whenwe created it..

LOL look who's back....this guy kills me... blktype

Please don't take my response as a negative but in truthI am fed up of this Black/white going no where argument. I believe we should be trying to move forward as a communitywith an identity,purpose and direction rather than waisting time on those people who chose another direction.

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Mantings: sorry disagree.. you canot MOVE forward until people like Phil STOP trhinking that EVERYTHING white is RIGHT and EVERYTHING black is automatically wrong/bad...

There is no point in talking 'history' if you fail to grasp it or translate theory into practise..

Efenjee: that was a damned good reply... I cannot disagree with you in truth except to further qualify my point and make an additional comment..

I heard recently on BBC radio London, a Muslim cleric or some such state that the reason why we are in this mess.. is because muslims & westerners alike have failed to take on, confront and dissect the Mantra's spewed by these people.. I agree with him.. I would therfore add, that in order to move forward as a culture (note I'm not saying 'race'). Is to confront, take on and dissect the Mantra's of people like Phil who have been exposed to a narrow frame of reference...

Not to change them or convert them, but to add balance to the debate that STOPS anymore Phil's from being created.. that would be my rebuttal to your point..

As an aside on your point, can i say that one of the reasons why we the MODS are so hot on curbing hate threads on men/women. Mixed race and white hate threads is for the very reasons you outline.. We feel its time to focus on US and not focus on either Europeans sensibilities or for that matter focus on reinforcing negative Stereotypes.. I'm tired of that, I think it lazy thinking and it gets us nowhere hence our position..

@ Philgreg

Im not as concerned about bombers than I am about the police murdering an innocent man in Stockwell... THAT worries me far more than anybody inour community.

Ok , cool , thanks for the reply's the majority were good, Kunjufu, Mafdet ...you answered the questions as I had hoped you would with your opinions...that was all I wanted.

Let me say that I dint have time to read all the threads regarding the bombing, I was just looking to engage some people on this.

The only complaint I have, is that many of you despite Kunjufu's request still choose to insult me. My opinions are formed despite my ethnicity, based on my WIDE experience of human nature.

Some one said "Phil thinks everything white is right" Conjecture my friends..you coulnt be further from the truth. However that doesnt mean everything black is right either.

Im sure we all know this...I'm looking for balance in my life.

I wasnt even making that distinction.

Another falsehood was that I voted for Blair. I did not vote for Blair in either local or general elections.

I am anti war and remain so to this day. I share your concerns about where the war in Iraq has led us.

Kunjufu you levelled these questions at me...


Do you imagine that you can collude with the invasion, bombing of innocent people and somehow the survivor would THANK you, well did you?

No I never,

Do you imagine that it is OK to kidnapped, transport, torture and then jail without due judicial process for over three years and the people effected would somehow accept that or like it?

No not at all, I cant understand how the U.S got away with that?

What did you imagine would happen when Blair and bush pissed all over the UN authority and credibility?That somehow those in Palestine, Iraq & afghanistan would be happy dancing in the street singing the praise of Tony Blair..could you really be that stupid?

I expected something like this would happen

As much as you want to invent difference between our positions...in truth there is probabally very little in it.

Phil: despite your Apology and your comments that headed this post, it seems to me that either it was a false apology or that you are discussing what is a complex and involved situation from a position of total ignorance... again i'm going to reply to you BEFORE closing this thread because this appears to be a devisive ploy to castegate the Villagers as somehow 'racist' or extremist in their views..

Given that you just ADMITTED that you didn't even read or avail yourself of the views expressed here, I don't see how we can have an open debate.. when it seems that you opinion is already made up..

In regards to your complaint it is also obvious that you didn't read this thread properly either if you look again EVERBODY complied with my request 100% and you were NOT insulted at all.. it is untruthful to say otherwise..where you gleaned this impression from I really don't know.. Again it appears to me that you came here EXPECTING/WANTING to be insulted to reinforce your already prejudiced view of Blacknet Village..

You talk about 'conjecture'and deny implicitly that you view things in such stack contrasts..really.. Can I then ask you to PM me with the list ofOTHER sites that you also went to and posted similar comments to this thread..did youMAKE for instancea plea to them to STOP harming others? I bet you, your effort could be counted on one finger..

Balance sir as you put it, comes when you listen to BOTH sides of a debate BEFORE you take a view.. NOT take a view BEFORE hearing both sides thats called bias!!!

Thank you for answering my questions.. howeve if you didn'tvote for Blair.. If you were Anti War.. it begs the obvious question why are you HERE askingsilly and obviousquestions like why would anyone become suicide bombers.. what caused this problem..etc etc ?

If you have a good grasp of the Geo political issues surrounding this issue was it really necassary to 'engage' in a debate.. Where is your point of view on what you think caused this issue.. where is your condemnation of the actions that leds us to this position...where for that matter is your SOLUTIONS?

Btw what I offered in a previous post wasn't an OPINION as you also falsely clsaimed..They were verifiable FACTS.. that you obviously overlooked.. An opinion is whenI make statement of MY feelings or my personal views on a situation.. A fact is when I state quite clearly that you were wrong in infering that the fouth Bomber was guided by either hisfaith or his Black culture to commit atrosicities..

You don't know that, you cannot know that!!!Didyou supplied evidence to back up your assertion? Did you giveany pathway to explain your thinking?. No you didn't then THAT sir isyour OPINION...and not a difference or a fact..

My reply was a statement of FACT correcting your CONJECTURE do you see howit works now?

MyOPINION (when using this term correctly), is that you are ill informed BASED on the scant information you have provided to back up your conjecture.. MY opinion is that you areNOT here to engage in honest DEBATE, but to merely reinforce YOUR already biased OPINION of us.. that opinion is BASED on the first line of your reply above.. MY OPINION is that this thread is a devisive VEHICLE for reason's best known only to you... andfor that reason I see no purpose for continuing its existence..do you see how OPINIONS and FACTS works now?