Extremists who "spit hate" at the Anglo-Saxon way of life should be deported - Page 2

Geoff · (#26 (**permalink**))

@ ozellh20 or Heather as we now know.

Sorry I havnt been on the site for a day....needed to think my answer through too.

Glad to give you some amusement,even unwittingly.

Geoff

Geoff · (#27 (**permalink**))

BlackMatta wrote:

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Geoff
Member

Are you wearing that gag by choice?

BlackMatta.

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It was the most apt Avatar I could find....I do try to speak with reserve,especially on sensitive issues,especially when I am expressing views that I cannot back up with statistics.

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Now for my humble opinion in reply to your question.

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OK, now tell us which ofhis following "marks" is "casting a 100 year long shadow" that is "haunting" the nation, andthe "traces" of which need "erasing" and "exorcising"

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(Note, these are your examples and perversely the only ones you have decided to mention).

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No list would have satisfied everybody,so these are only examples of "shadows" or "stains" that remain of the legacy of colonial rule.

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Whenever troubles are discussedconcerning Zimbabwe.... Rhodes name is mentioned as a factor.My arguement is subtle and I hope I can explain what I mean clearly enough so that it is not seen as a critisism out of hand of the current events.

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My reasoning for saying Rhodes is long gone is just that,he departed this world over a 100 years ago,plenty of time to change the name of the country.I know his influence has remained in many ways,but it appears to me that certain aspects of that time have been kept...such as the list I gave.

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Some things that were imposed have been accepted as good,acceptable to the Independant Zimbabwe.Of course an Independant country can control its own internal agenda,they are soveriegn rulers of their own identity,only influenced by the the same constraintsas any country in the world.

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The arguements concerning Land reform in Zimbabwe always bring up the fact that Mugabe was "playing" by the rules,as if he were a fair and reasonable man.

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Now my reasoning gets complicated.....hope I can explain it.

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If the cause was just,and he was a man of character,he would have insisted from the start to achieve the outcome he wanted.If he was genuine enough to "play" by the rules so far down the line....why start to alter the "fair play" at such a late stage.

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Let me state clearly now that I believe Land reform was justified........no reservation on my part.But to be honest ,like the wisdom of Solomon who ordered the two mothers fighting over a child to cut the child in two in order to be fair....he ordered the "baby" to be sectioned up too.

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Now the shadow you asked about......not the judicial system....not the school system......even more elusive than that.The Shadow that remains is the attitude that to buck against the Rhodesian stroke Colonialists is enough to score points.Like a Convent Educated school girl out on the town for the fist time,realising that "I can do that without being struck down"

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The "Shadow" I speak of is that "looking over your shoulder" wondering what Baas will say attitude.The problem is very complex in that some things that the Baas has or did are envied,obviously better than before,pre-colonial days.Somethings are better but unsuitable or unworkable,other things that actually work very well are unacceptable in the circumstances,now that the country is supposedly Independant.Zimbawe wants it own independance,free from colonial ties,and sees the "whites" as colonialists,lauding it over the "natives"The shadow I speak of is the confidence to accept what is good for the country despite the fact it might have a pigment deficiency,without that feeling of "weakness" if you work together.

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Ask what I mean dont rip me to pieces for having a "white" point of view.Thats the only way I can see the world.....perhaps you are in a similar position?

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Geoff

LadyDay · (#28 (**permalink**))

hypocrites

did anyone see the Sun's front page saturday 30 july. that there speaks volumes.

the land reforms in africa cannot be compared to what has happened in the uk. how do they explain the irish ira etc. same thing same scale. that brixton nail bomber home grown fatally attacking home born and grown people.

geoff your reasoning is flawed but i cant expect much from you. europeans only see the world through europeans eyes. w e du boise explains this well.

basically anyone who hates africans should not be in africa ..........looks like boers and the rest need to leave then.

Le Moor · (#29 (**permalink**))

Geoff wrote:

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@ Le Moor.....

My comment was meant to be flippant....

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Yes i know, my answer mirrored your sick tone.

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Geoff · (#30 (**permalink**))

@ BlackMatta

Your question...

Do you think Zimbabwe should be left alone to erase or exorcise this shadow, and if not, why not?
Shadows are illusory things,children fear them.Stains are character,like age lines an an elderly man.The fact is the european presence has changed the whole character and lifestyle of their colonies.And that is my point....pre-colonial times cannot be restored as if the intervening years had not happened.All that can be done,and should be done,is the injustices that resulted from colonialism be resolved.These injustices are personified by the white farming "elite".The events that have unfolded are akin to cutting the baby in half,everybody should be happy,so why aren't they? I suggested on another thread that Mugabe should have "phased in" over several decades the take over of the farms,used the european's knowledge of the intricacies of their particular farms for the countries benifit.Framed laws to accomodate a transfer of land over time,made them take on black managers,in such a way the Farmers would have had an option to stay and work with the new system or relinguish the land.While mantaining economic stability.

What has happened is that a delayed knee jerk against the oppressive shadows of thecolonial past,has wrecked the whole country.Meanwhile the shadow of the judiciary lurks in the background arguing that the new measures are illegal,the shadow of the electoral system means removing peoples back to the Tribal Trust Lands where their vote can be "monitored" to advantage.

I can understand the need to be independant of White dominance, you are in your own house, do as you want,what you believe to be fair and just and for the benifit of the country as a whole.One hand washes the other,can you loose the benifits that the so called elite gave to the economy?

Of course the Zimbabweans should be left to sort out their shadows,it is a soveriegn country.I would hope they could see the shadow for what it is,the whites for what they are,the descendants of thieves and chancers,not super humans,just people with a melonin deficiency and attitude.....

My second question is -

A way of likening the events recently in the UK to the african's experience of an alien culture imposing itself by force.

And my answer is that you have your own Shadows that haunt you also.Someone attacks the western way of life,and you waiver in your condemnation of it,because the "enemy" is your enemy.There is a strange irony here ,for I agree somewhat with some of their aims.I dont want my daughter to wear a Veil,but I would prefer the magazines she reads didn't tell her about alternative sexual positions,I would prefer advertisements for Fried Chicken not to be so explicitly sexual.The bombers may bomb the west into submission,and replace the Bible with the Koran,but as with the colonialists they will never "win" And I suppose in a hundred years time I or more likely my descendants would havetheir own shadows......How do we break this circle of events?

Quick enough this time?

Geoff

Geoff · (#31 (**permalink**))

Many thanks for that BlackMatta...................blkwall.............. wot No Damning comment ?

Geoff

ozellh20 · (#32 (**permalink**))

Nicely put Geoff, you are very informed on this. One question, why the concern for the farmers?

Geoff · (#33 (**permalink**))

ozellh20 wrote:

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Nicely put Geoff, you are very informed on this. One question, why the concern for the farmers?

I could ask why your concern for my concern??.......Or because they are humans too.
But seriously...because I dont see them as entirely at fault for the crimes of their forefathers,they are victims too.While saying that I fully understand that they are to some extent an unacceptable elite who need to change their attitude to suit the situation they are in right now.

Geoff

ozellh20 · (#34 (**permalink**))

I was just curious my friend, and I didn't mean to create online drama only asking a question and thanks for your response. Good day.