I could go on all day about this one.

I've read into modern capitalist social theory as well as the VERY intresting Communist manifesto. Unless you want a full essay on the EVIL that is capitalism I suggest you read a book called -Status Anxiety- written by one Allan de Botton, its written from a Christian perspective but its details how a capitalist society works.. thing is, its tough for me to live in England plan on being self-employed (the sign up to escape the beast theory) whilstnoting the wrongs ofhow things work... ok ok you've got my anti capitalist fingers itching I'll quote a bit from a few books I've got to drop some info for you and others;

First off there is no ''freedom'', a true leader leader is enslaved to those he leads. poloticians forget this just as they forget the fact that they are 'Civil Servants'... they mean the same thing.

A financial freedom is what is strived for within a capitalist state. To be truly free is to live with out responcability (sp). lol. Odd when a man gains enough knowledge to realise the power is with those that don't need to acknowledge anything at all. (Masons/ other sects realise this prehaps only the rich/wealthy really note the Tribes in Africa who live in a constant state of meditation and have no need forfaulse attributes as mentioned in the section I've quoted below)

Ie; Its all BS, a complication of the pyramids of Egypt with materialist trappings... I keep being split between wanting to live in peace and harmony personally so my plan is to do what I have to here in England and leave to ''retire'' early.

Plz read it all comes together trust me....

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THE DESIRE FOR STATUS

There are common assumptions about which motives drive us to seek high status; among them, a longing for money, fame and influence. Alter-natively, it might be more accurate to sum up what we are searching for with a word seldom used in political theory; LOVE.

Once food and shelter has been secured, the predominant impulse behind our desire to suceed in the social hierarchy may lie not so much with the goods we can accrue or the power we can weild, as with the amount of LOVE we stand to recive as a consequence of high status. Money, fame and influence may be valued more as tokens of - and as a means to - LOVE rather than asends in themselves.

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Prehaps why Capitalist states are so spiritually devoid? I'll go on. plz read as I've taken a bit of time typing this and its something that means a lot to me. if it gets boring read the end paragraph.

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How might a word, generally used only in relation to what we would want from a parent or romantic love, be applied to something we might want from and be offered by the world?

Prehaps we could define love, at once in its familial, sexual and worldly forms, as a kind of RESPECT, a sencitivity by one person to anothers exsistance. Our presence is noted, our name is registered... our veiws are listened to.

THE IMPORTANCE OF LOVE

How are we affected by an absence of love? Why should being ignored drive us to a -RAGE and impotent DISPAIR- beside which torture would be a relief? The attentions of others might be said to us to matter pricipally because we are afflicted by a congenital uncertanty as to our own value - as a result of which what others think of us comes to play a determining role in how we are able to veiw ourselves. Our SENCE OF IDENTITY is held captive by the judgements of those we live among. Ifthey are amused byour jokes, we grow confident of our power to amuse. If they praise us, we develop an impression of high merit. And if they AVOID OUOR GAZE AS WE ENTER A ROOM (or walk the street) or look impatient after we have revealed our occupation, we may fall into feelings of self-doubt and worthlessness.

If poverty is the customary material penalty for low status, then neglect and faraway looks will be the emotional penalies that a snobbish world appears unable to stop imposing on those bereft of the symbols of importance.

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As said I could go on but what it boils down to is that Capitalism has a need for poverty, a constant flow of it to be exact as more people become happy with their lot jobs begin to lack in other places. Take man at his most ''prime-itive'' the EXACT same emotinos have been turned into what we are today. no diffrent, only repackaged.

''The ruling ideas of every age are always the ideas of the ruling class''

Karl Marx.

-These ideas would never come to rule if they were seen to rule by force. The essence of idealogical statements is that, unless a persons political sences are developed, we will fail to spot them. Ideology is released into society like a colourless, odourless gas. It is embedded in newspapers, advertisements, television programms and text-books where it makes light of its partial, prehaps illogical or UNJUST take on the world.-

-Every organization will attempt to gather raw materials, labour and machinery at the lowest possible price to combine them into a product that can be sold at the highest possible price. From the economic perspective, there are no diffrences between any of the elements in the input side of the equation. -



[align=center]''Do not listen to this imposter! (a man after hearing a speech on the rights of ''ownership''). You are lost if you forget that the fruits of the earth belong to all and the earth to no one!''[/align]


[align=left]-Rosseau went on to sketch the history of the world not as a story of progress from babarism to the great workshops and cities of Europe, but as one of regress away from a privileged state in which we lived simply but had the chance to sound out our needs, towards one where we were apt to feel envy for ways of life with few connections to our own characters. In technologically backward ''pre-history'' when man and woman lived in rainforests and had never entered a shop or read a newspaper, the philosopher pictured people more easily understanding themselves and so being drawn towards essential features of a satisfied life; a love of family, a respect for nature, an awe at the beauty of nature and the universe a curisoty about others, and a taste for music and simple entertainments. It was from this state that modern commercial civilization had pulled us. leaving us to envy and yearn and suffer in a world of plenty. [/align]


[align=left]THE AMERICAN INDIANS[/align]


[align=left]Reports of American Indian society drawn up in the sixteenth century had described it as materially simple but psycologically rewarding; communities were small, close knit, egalitarian, religious, playful and martial. The Indians were certainly ''backward in a financial sence. Even a chief might even own only a few pots.[/align]


[align=left]However, within only a few decades of the arrival of the first Europeans, the status system of the Indian society was revolutionized through contact with the technology and luxury of European industry. What mattered was no longer ones wisdom or understanding of the ways of nature but ones ownership or weapons, jewlery and alchol/ ~indians now longed for silver earrings, copper and brass, guns, beads and mirrors. These new enthusiasms did not come about by coincidence... European traders deliberatly attempted to foster desires in the Indians so as to motivate tham to hunt the animal pelts that the European market wanted. Robert Berverly oberved that, [/align]


[align=left]''The Europeans have introduced luxury among the indians which has mulitplied their wants and made them desire a thousand things they never wanted dreamt of before''[/align]


[align=left]Unfortunatly these thousand things didn't appear to make the Indians much happier. Certainly they worked harder. Between 1739 and 1759 the 2000 warrior of the Cherokee tribe were estimated to have killed 1.25 million deer to satisfy European demand. The MontagnaisIndians on the north shore of St Lawrence river traded 12,000 and 15,000 pelts a year with the French and British. But happyness did not increase in line with the levels of trade. Rates of suicide were reported and alcholism rose... communities fractured factions squabbled amongst themselves over the European trade. There were calls by Indian chiefs to rid themselves of the Europeans ''luxury'' Prophecies were heard that the tribes would be wiped out if they did not wean themselves from the dependance on trade. But it was too late.[/align]


[align=left]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------<End.[/align]


[align=left]Need I say more? [/align]


[align=left]Peace[/align]


[align=left]New Age/Rebel-Lion[/align]

Hmmm, GDP Gross Domestic Produce.

Heres a far fetched one.

There are things about capitalism/consumerism that I don't understand. I mean, take the word, -Capitalism-.

*somethings up here, I can't post or something...*

Any -ism havent worked onall people equally. Nationalism, Socialism, Racism, Capitalism, Spiritualism, Communism, etc, always have some pyramid hierachy that does not lead to truth.

The future of any people in my opinionwill be on merit. What you are capable of doing for who and what for.

If black people want capitalism, I don't see any wrong in pursuing it, but do try to have a strong voice in any system.

I think a modern society needs a combination of capitalism, socialism, strong rule of law and individual rights.

People really do need to be allowed to live as they choose without too many rules and regulations. And they should be able to associate with who they wish and say what they want.

Blacks definitely need to become a part of the system – many of us are already doing it.

I have been to Africa and I have seen the way some of those tribal societies live. It is a hard life – make no mistake.

Most of us seek status in our families, among our friends, and in the society at large. I don’t think this is ever going to change.

Some people also, frankly, don’t deserve to live off of my dime. I have worked hard all my life to build things up for my family. I have a lot of worthless relatives who would love to come in my home and live off of what I have. They would do it in a heart beat. I don’t think it is my duty to support them. I have never been able to figure out how to help people who can’t help themselves.

I think this principle should be applied to the broader society.

But there is no question in my mind that capitalism needs reforms and needs healthy regulations. One of the sadest things that I have seen in America is cheap labor flooding the country. I firmly believe that those willing to work should be able to make a living wage.

I don't think "equality" is possible between all people (and I am not talking about race). But I do want to see people have a fair shotin life. There will probably always be poor sick, unhappy, people in the world.But many of the socialists and communistsof the 20th century only added to the unhappiness in the world and they destroyed some of their most talented people in the name of equality.

-From above-


There are things about capitalism/sonsumerism that I don't understand. I mean, take the word, -Capitalism-.

-Sorry, I added a quote defining capitalism but I can't seem to post so I've taken it out to get it through-

To CAPITALISE off of.

Has the site gone down or something? I can't post anything longer than a few lines...

ok, one more time, sorry for messing up your topic... trying to write and I can't.

-I have never been able to figure out how to help people who can’t help themselves.-

I've thought about the same thing. My people in Jamaica need to do something but are stubborn at best, take my cousin for example I lent him some of my stuff and hes just up and taken it... gave back my weights and he decided to keep a few out of spite not knowing that if he'd have given them back I might have been able to lend him some more stuff at another time... idiot. Now hes screwed himself up and no one in the family can be bothered to help him out anymore. It angers me and I feel to break into his house and take my stuff back (my earphones man, not my earphones!). lol. any one else and I'd just forget it but my own cousin... I've disowned him.


[align=center]But I stick to my guns, capitalism is bad for everyone involved. If Africa became a capitalist state it'd have to break down into classes a certain type of people being the underclass and they'd be crying the same cry that we all have for ages. Its too contradictory to sign up to a system thats done nothing but oppress us for decades. I'd prefer a socialist state over a capitalist one... prehaps a bit of 'right wingedness' to promote that pride we all need to take in the continent and to power up without outside ''aid''. [/align]

[align=center]The Black Army would then sweep Africa, kicking out all vulture merchants and corrupt governments, embracing their Carribean/south american/Americanbrothers andsealing borders. Pacts would be made with the Chinese to establish trade and the southern indians would be allowed over. Homes would be built and dodgy french businesses taken back and given to the people. A national pride will be instilled and declared world wide, white would mean inpurity and black would be hailed as a new posotive word meaning FORM.... then I'd wake up and hope to dream again.
[/align]

Dont let Coltrane see this thread, otherwise its murder!!!

On a real, I ok for capitlism, but not that neo-con strand, thats too far