Gazelle: sorry but thats a cop out..and quite frankly I'm not letting you off the hook...you challenged my comments I legitimately asked you at least three times to explain where i've got it wrong... you have c onsistently failed cited some rubbish reason.

Now its quite clear I've actually already EXPLAINED my position and my reasons for holding that position what I'd like is an informed response from you explaining how I've got it wrong it you can't or won't please do not expect any further replies from me ok..its that simple..

Not letting me off the hook? Kunjufu please, we are not in high school.....I will ask again.....WHAT DID YOU THINK OF AZANIA (SIC) LAST TIME YOU WERE THERE?



BTW EXPLAIN THE PHRASE "RIBBISH REASON" TO ME...........

Mandela was great before he went to prison... that place ruined the man, and his captors knew this when they released him from prison... this is why they released him from prison and handed power to him.

imagine this: his captors were actually feeding him for 27 years... chances his mind would survive intact are close to nil, if we know the nature of the beast.

it was all a set up. he was a symbolic figure who was put in control because they were certain they could control him. the same thing happened throughout Africa, and is happening in Iraq under our watchful, "tuned in" eyes.

the musterd they fed him ruined his back, and God knows what they did to his mind.

we cannot however fault Mandela in the manner i have seen above.the mandidn't set himself up. in my mind he remains atrue hero, a freedom fighter who payed the ultimate price...

Tolane: I think you are right to a certain extent, Mandela served the people of Azania better when he was in prison, in fact I'd go so far as to say he served Africans worldwide better when he was in prison..

Whilst i take your point that he may have been a broken man, when he was effectivwely made the poster boy for the post Aparthied regime, I hae to say I'm struggling with two his decisions that to me goes beyond being used and smacks of a bit more than being used... I've already cited the truth& reconciliation joke commission.. and how he obviously held his ex wife out to dry...whilst allowing ex leader Botha to get away with far more, and disrespecting the authority of the commission.

But for me far worse is his decision to sell arms via Isreal to other African countries..that for me is unforgiveable..especially as many ended up in the Congo...I can't see how that can be reconciled with the ANC manifiesto, or his alleged ideals before he was sent to prison and in prison...and to be honest I've yet to meet someone who can defend these descisons..

Sorry I can't agree that Tutu, was a 'saint' he and his cohort Mandela are the biggest JOKERS...who sold out their people for the thirty pieces and now expect gratitude for this betrayal

[align=center]ower[/align]
[align=left]Words fail me.....his name alone makes me want to sing, and my singing has been known to make people comitt suicide...lol...hmmm, maybe i should sing right now in the hope that Tu-fool might just do that so we can all be left in peace[/align]
[align=left]IMAO! He dosen't sound too bad although its pretty much obvious to most like KF said, its a bit like Kofi Anan, in such a position a man would think of his people, of his country yet.... its the same with them all, public figures and nothing more than that.[/align]
[align=left]To add to KFs post on mandela, whos been to Durbam? Jos'burg? There are still major problems in SA and I have friends that will account for that, they tell me that there are still partsthat you can't walk through and that the whites segregate themselves keeping all of thebest of this and that to themselves... people fail to see the political papershuffle that went on so the few can still maintain power and simply see the outfit, the uniform thats portrayed on the outside. South Africa is ENGLISH owned, go and talk to a white south african and you can tell that there are still problems, talk with a mixed race SA and its even worse. They have to be the most HORRIBLE group of people i have ever met and had the displeasure of working for I had to leave my job and was even confused about the waymyself and others were treated by them (Bid.Tv is South African run)no offencebut what alsoshocked me was that many Africans put up with it rather than stand against it as myself and a few others did. [/align]
[align=left]Sitting having lunch (30mins) and joined by a team leader whowas happy to talk in Afrikkans... now I wasn't sure but I had a feeling that thats an oppressive language to beusing with myself and theAfricanbrothers and sisters I was withbut I didn't say anything it was when theconversation delved into the way Americans are and blah blah that the man said quite coldly and blatantly, [/align]
[align=left]''you're alla bunch of savages'' [/align]
[align=left]I was shocked and there was no complaining cause it was run by white SAs. I had running battles with the man who was happy to make comments like,[/align]
[align=left]''I'm more African than you I was born there' [/align]
[align=left]which really grates with me, happy to chat up the sisters but hating everything else, [/align]
[align=left]''Father Africa is...'' [/align]
[align=left]Doing everything he could to look down on African people in the work place and hating the people he couldn't. I've even had talks with white south african people who'll dodge certain topics if you know what I mean.[/align]
[align=left]So I don't think too much of Nelson Mandela myself all that forgiveness rubbish was to avoid court charges, great what the man did but his job wasn't and still isn't over.[/align]
[align=left]imagine this: his captors were actually feeding him for 27 years... chances his mind would survive intact are close to nil, if we know the nature of the beast.[/align]
[align=left]Do you think they poisioned him?
[/align]
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I am also waiting to gazelle's 'in depth' anaylsis of south africa.......

We should Honor our Warrior Queen Winne Mandela. She... as always,the forgotten Shero.

Blinded We dont even belive what we see only what were told.

FutureGenerations Will have the visiontoHonor this Queen and elevate her to her Rightfulposition.

Marcus Garvey was dealt the same hand.






[align=center][/align]

But Marcus Garvey lives! lol