African-American Indians. Can a person be both African American & Native American Indian. - Page 2

101stAirborne · (#26 (**permalink**))

What "us"?

TheDogon wrote:

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kiley wrote:

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TheDogon wrote:

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kiley wrote:

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The funny thing is most Native American tribes don't even reconize alot of the 'black Indian' tribes,but quickly except the 1/4 native indian Chuck Norris and Johnny Depp types. These people are of African ancestry,why can't they take pride and research that?

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Kiley, do you claim to be African-American? Because if you are, you would know that many American Indians recognize Lumbee, Seminole, and Cherokee who have significant African heritage.

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The Black Seminoles are descendants of runaway slaves who escaped from coastal South Carolina and Georgia into the Florida wilderness beginning as early as the late 1600s. The runaway slaves joined with various Indian groups escaping into Florida at the same period. Together, the two groups formed the Seminole tribe, a multi-ethnic and bi-racial alliance. Today, Black Seminole descendants still live in rural communities in Oklahoma and Texas and in the Bahamas and Northern Mexico. In the 19th century the Florida "Black Seminoles" were called "Seminole Negroes" by their white American enemies and Estelusti, or "Black People," by their Indian allies. Modern Black Seminoles are known as "Seminole Freedmen" in Oklahoma, "Seminole Scouts" in Texas, "Black Indians" in the Bahamas, and "Mascogos" in Mexico.

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It took the lumbees a long time to be reconized by the Native American Associations in the Carolinas becausesome have40% african blood.

And I'm only tellingyou what a blackNative American said, the black natives are look down upon.

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I would never characterize things as perfect. Definitely "race" and/or colorism has plagued American Indians. But this does not begin to compare with what Africans have experienced at the hands of your "White" saviours.

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American Indians in the beginning welcomed us. But it was us who turned to killing them likedogs on the plains of this nation.

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101stAirborne · (#27 (**permalink**))

girlfromthenc wrote:

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there. I believe Black/indian mixes broke off and formed their own communties while Indian/white mixeskept the tribal name and becamethe official "native Americans" tribes. When I was in the Cherokee mountains I saw hundreds of Confederate flags flying and EVERYONE looked like poor white trash. It was crazy.

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Most of theEastern Cherokees aligned thenselves with the Confederates who sought to reinstate the slave trade. COnfedrate flags should be no surprise its part of their "heritage".

kiley · (#28 (**permalink**))

101stAirborne wrote:

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What "us"?

TheDogon wrote:

Quote:

kiley wrote:

Quote:

TheDogon wrote:

Quote:

kiley wrote:

Quote:

The funny thing is most Native American tribes don't even reconize alot of the 'black Indian' tribes,but quickly except the 1/4 native indian Chuck Norris and Johnny Depp types. These people are of African ancestry,why can't they take pride and research that?

Quote:

Kiley, do you claim to be African-American? Because if you are, you would know that many American Indians recognize Lumbee, Seminole, and Cherokee who have significant African heritage.

Quote:

The Black Seminoles are descendants of runaway slaves who escaped from coastal South Carolina and Georgia into the Florida wilderness beginning as early as the late 1600s. The runaway slaves joined with various Indian groups escaping into Florida at the same period. Together, the two groups formed the Seminole tribe, a multi-ethnic and bi-racial alliance. Today, Black Seminole descendants still live in rural communities in Oklahoma and Texas and in the Bahamas and Northern Mexico. In the 19th century the Florida "Black Seminoles" were called "Seminole Negroes" by their white American enemies and Estelusti, or "Black People," by their Indian allies. Modern Black Seminoles are known as "Seminole Freedmen" in Oklahoma, "Seminole Scouts" in Texas, "Black Indians" in the Bahamas, and "Mascogos" in Mexico.

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It took the lumbees a long time to be reconized by the Native American Associations in the Carolinas becausesome have40% african blood.

And I'm only tellingyou what a blackNative American said, the black natives are look down upon.

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I would never characterize things as perfect. Definitely "race" and/or colorism has plagued American Indians. But this does not begin to compare with what Africans have experienced at the hands of your "White" saviours.

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American Indians in the beginning welcomed us. But it was us who turned to killing them likedogs on the plains of this nation.

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I knowyes butSome Native American had slaves just like whites did,so that doesn't make themany different. They killed too.

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Researching Black Indian Genealogy of the Five Civilized Tribes It is known that many Africans intermarried with Native Americans. Less widely known is the fact that many Native Americans also owned African slaves, and fathered children with African slave women. In addition there were smaller numbers Free People of Color who lived in many of the nations and who also lived and married persons from the same nations, and whose descendants claim ancestry from the Oklahoma Black Indian people. As a result, thousands of Americans have African and Indian ancestry.

URL
http://www.nativeweb.org/resources/g...racing_roots_/

About Africans and the cheerokee indians:

"In 1809, nearly 600 enslaved blacks lived in the Cherokee nation. This number increased to almost 1,600 in 1835 and to around 4,000 in 1860. Cherokee populations for these dates are: 12,400 in 1809, 16,400 in 1835, and 21,000 in 1860. The proportion of families that owned slaves never exceeded ten percent, comparable to the percentage among white families across the South. In the 1835 census, only eight percent of Cherokee households contained slaves, and only three Cherokee owned more than 50 slaves. Joseph Vann had the most, owning 110. Of the 207 Cherokee listed as owning slaves, 168, or 83 percent, owned less than ten slaves. Of the slave-owning families, 78 percent claimed some white ancestry".

"The harsher treatment of blacks by the Five Civilized Tribes, including the Seminoles, possibly stemmed in part from the larger number of enslaved blacks held by Indians after the removal. The number of enslaved blacks among the Creeks increased from 502 to 1,532; among the Cherokees, the number grew from 1,592, to 2,511; among the Choctaw, from 512 to 2.349; and among the Chickasaw, the number climbed from several hundred to around 1,000. For the Seminole, the number increased from 500 to less than 1,000, although most scholars dispute this figure as too high in view of the many who are known to have been stolen and sold by slavers or else who had run off to Mexico".

"The Choctaw put off embracing the formerly enslaved as tribal members until 1885; only the Chickasaw, however, refused to take this step, never recognizing their formerly enslaved blacks as full tribal members. (For more a more in-depth look at the Seminoles and formerly enslaved blacks, read the Seminoles and Slaves: Florida's Freedom Seekers ".

URL:

http://www.slaveryinamerica.org/hist...ns_slavery.htm

TheDogon · (#29 (**permalink**))

kiley wrote:

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I knowyes butSome Native American had slaves just like whites did,so that doesn't make themany different. They killed too.

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Researching Black Indian Genealogy of the Five Civilized Tribes It is known that many Africans intermarried with Native Americans. Less widely known is the fact that many Native Americans also owned African slaves, and fathered children with African slave women. In addition there were smaller numbers Free People of Color who lived in many of the nations and who also lived and married persons from the same nations, and whose descendants claim ancestry from the Oklahoma Black Indian people. As a result, thousands of Americans have African and Indian ancestry.

URL
http://www.nativeweb.org/resources/g...racing_roots_/

About Africans and the cheerokee indians:

"In 1809, nearly 600 enslaved blacks lived in the Cherokee nation. This number increased to almost 1,600 in 1835 and to around 4,000 in 1860. Cherokee populations for these dates are: 12,400 in 1809, 16,400 in 1835, and 21,000 in 1860. The proportion of families that owned slaves never exceeded ten percent, comparable to the percentage among white families across the South. In the 1835 census, only eight percent of Cherokee households contained slaves, and only three Cherokee owned more than 50 slaves. Joseph Vann had the most, owning 110. Of the 207 Cherokee listed as owning slaves, 168, or 83 percent, owned less than ten slaves. Of the slave-owning families, 78 percent claimed some white ancestry".

"The harsher treatment of blacks by the Five Civilized Tribes, including the Seminoles, possibly stemmed in part from the larger number of enslaved blacks held by Indians after the removal. The number of enslaved blacks among the Creeks increased from 502 to 1,532; among the Cherokees, the number grew from 1,592, to 2,511; among the Choctaw, from 512 to 2.349; and among the Chickasaw, the number climbed from several hundred to around 1,000. For the Seminole, the number increased from 500 to less than 1,000, although most scholars dispute this figure as too high in view of the many who are known to have been stolen and sold by slavers or else who had run off to Mexico".

"The Choctaw put off embracing the formerly enslaved as tribal members until 1885; only the Chickasaw, however, refused to take this step, never recognizing their formerly enslaved blacks as full tribal members. (For more a more in-depth look at the Seminoles and formerly enslaved blacks, read the Seminoles and Slaves: Florida's Freedom Seekers ".

URL:

http://www.slaveryinamerica.org/hist...ns_slavery.htm

Kiley, you just don't understand what "White" supremacy is. Get this book. . .read it. I am not saying this will change your life. But it will at least "upgrade" your conversation so that you will know what you are dealing with here. . .at the "Black" Village. . .

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http://www.amazon.com/Yurugu-African.../dp/0865432481

alabamagirl · (#30 (**permalink**))

I was on this site called mjnewsonline and there was this thread that is 17 pages long. People werearguing aboutwhetherthe Jackson's had Cherokee heritage and I'm like does it even matter? So what, who cares?confused3It's nothing special.

KooolHerc · (#31 (**permalink**))

There were Black people in the Americas long before Columbus or Mongoloids.The Ethnic American Black people are a people unto ourselves.Many of us that claim "indian" are not aware that our "part indian" ancestors were actually of indigenous American stock.There is enough American Blacks that know the truth to school the ignorant....

Black Africans didn't exist in the Americas before contact, nor in Asia or Polynesia.

There were Black peoples from Asia,Oceania,Pacific Islands,and Africa in the Americas,long before Columbus or Mongoloids.The mongoloids aren't even the original Asians...They were Black people.....

Buddha SE Asia

Shang Dynasty China

Austronesia

Andaman Islands

[align=justify]The Andaman Islandersshare the same ABO Blood group as people in Somalia. The stealing of young Melanesians to work in the cane fields of Australia and Fiji was called "Blackbirding." Europeans in big ships with muskets, axes and mattocks would seduce naive islanders on board to look at other treasures. Sometimes they were offered a pleasure cruise that never came back. One account tells how recruiters in the bay of a missioned island stood on deck with hymnbooks, singing, until the islanders paddled out for a look. They were told falsely that a Bishop was on board; they clambered up and were promptly thrown in the hold. It is quite interesting reading. Her website goes into great detail about the Wild Borneo Man, Malaysia, and other parts of the Oceanic Islands. The picture shows the nowEXTINCT Tasmanian Aborigines (1860). The pictures of the Tasmanians come from the following website: [/align]

Tasmania

Sri Lanka

China 1000 AD

Thailand

India

Papau New Guinea

Phillipenes

[align=center]CHINESE ROOTS LIE IN AFRICA, RESEARCH SAYS [/align]

[align=center]by Robert Lee Holts, Times Science Writer
(Los Angeles Times, September 29, 1998) [/align]
Most of the population of modern China--one fifth of all the people living today--owes its genetic origins to Africa, an international scientific team said today in research that undercuts any theory that modern humans may have originated independently in China.

In the search for human origins, in which political beliefs and pride of place can figure as prominently as fossil evidence, the genetic findings dramatically illustrate the intricate weave of prehistoric migrations and human evolution, the scientists said.

Published today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Scientists, the study is the product of the Chinese Human Genome Diversity Project, a consortium of seven major research groups in the People's Republic of China, and the Human Genetics Center at the University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston. It was funded by the National Natural Science Foundation of China.

Detailed Genetic Profiles Created

The group used the advanced tools of DNA analysis to create detailed genetic profiles of 28 of China's official population groups, which comprise more than 90% of the country's population, to better understand the roots of complex chronic diseases among so many of China's ethnic groups, the team also shed light on the ancestry of the people in East Asia, who, like everyone, carry in every cell of their bodies genetic hints about their evolutionary history and the journey of their forebears.

"The contribution [of this study] is very significant to the literature of human evolution," said Ranjan Deka at the University of Cincinnati, who studies human genetic variation. "The findings also will have a lot of bearing in the study of genetic diseases."

Until now, other research said, few studies of human population genetics have taken such a comprehensive look at China. Stanford University geneticist Luca Cavalli-Sforza, an authority on human genetic variation, said. "It is very encouraging to see a cooperative effort of this magnitude beginning to take place in this most important part of the world, and [they] are to be warmly congratulated for it."

In all, the Chinese government today recognizes 56 ethnic groups. Just one of them, the Han, makes up the bulk of the population, comprising about 1.1 billion people. The other 55 ethnic minority groups encompass about 100 million people spread throughout China.

To study the diverse genetic inheritance of such an enormous population, the researchers used a special set of genetic markers called microsatellites. These extremely short chemical segments of DNA mutate very rapidly. That allows scientists to use them as signposts to mark how populations diverged or merged over time, reconstructing their evolutionary journey through time and across the continents to their contemporary abodes.

The scientists looked at 30 such microsatellite markers across 28 of the population groups in China and then compared the pattern to 11 other population groups around the world.

The researchers demonstrated that the people of northern and southern China cluster into distinct regional genetic populations that share inherited characteristics. Those groups in turn, can be divided into even smaller, separate genetic groups.

Yet, overall they all are descendants of a single population group that may have migrated into China from the south eons before humans learned to forge metal tools or use a written alphabet, the new research suggests.

"Populations from East Asia always derived from a single lineage, indicating the single origins of those populations," the researchers said. "It is now probably safe to conclude that modern humans originating in Africa constitute the majority of the current gene pool in East Asia," they said.

Then several hundred thousand years later, some theorize, a second wave of more sophisticated tool-using human migrated out of Africa and overwhelmed those earlier ancestors. According to that theory, modern humans are descended solely from those especially sophisticated tool-users.

http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/china1.html

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[align=center]But jumping from there to clime Chinese civilization belong to Black Americans.... Jesus! That's is a long jump into logical nonsense. [/align]

[align=center]You can't even spell "clime",idiot.I have never stated that "Chinese civilization belong to Black Americans"..I simply refuted this dumb "clime" of yours....

Black Africans didn't exist in the Americas before contact, nor in Asia or Polynesia. [/align]
There were Black peoples from Asia,Oceania,Pacific Islands,and Africa in the Americas,long before Columbus or Mongoloids.The mongoloids aren't even the original Asians...They were Black people.....

[align=center][/align]

[align=center][/align]

[align=center][/align]
That's just dreamming. You aren't even "dreamming",dummy.You are comatose if you think that your outlandish and ridiculous arguments are of any real scientific merit.Hang it up,skippy..Your argument has no basis in reality whatsoever....

Why don't you go back to West Africans an study your real ancestors? That is what I am doing,moron.My ancestors were of the Black Race.There were fully humanBlack people of differing typeson this Earth inEurope,Americas,Asia,Pacific Islands,Africa and etc.long before any of you Non Black mutants ever existed.

There is nothing shameful in descending of people that has a simple culture. What is shameful is to replace our real ancestorsby fantasies. You are the only one shameful using outdated and silly rhetoric as if thatshowspeople smelting iron long before 1000 BC were somehow "simple".The only thing simple is your debate style as you have failed continuously to refute one fact,moron....

KooolHerc · (#32 (**permalink**))

There were Black peoples in the Americas,long before Columbus or Mongoloids...

Maya Magicianwith Snake in Mouth

West African Magician with Snake in Mouth

Olmec

Ohio

SE USA

Olmec

Olmec

Olmec with Afro

Olmec with CORNROWS