Just heard that Toyin of Ligali was arrested..today - Page 11

Kunjufu · (#251 (**permalink**))

graphics wrote:

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In my opinion, which, like all opinons maybe wrong...parts of Africa need to go through an industrial revolution in order that people can build buisness and support themselves, and I would like to see everything done by the developed world in order to achieve this, including writing off debt.

Forum: i have highlighted this bit of Graphics post....to underline the ignorance i speak about... just in case some think I'm being rude to the man. Just for the record the industrial revolution in Britian was largely funded by SLAVERY.... and the Resources taken from the Americas and Africa.... NOT as this European asserts the product of ENGLISH ingenuity in isolation to the rest of the World... This Graphic is one of the reason why an APOLOGY is needed... to stop this type of ignorance from flourishing..

graphics · (#252 (**permalink**))

Kunjufu wrote:

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graphics wrote:

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I went to a private school, and they are not require to teach the same things as state schools hence the reason why I missed out on learning aboutthis part of our history. And I have researched and explored the truth as an adult. I am not expecting to be spoonfed, nor would I like to be thank you very much....yuck!

I just think it is strange that if this apology would be so vital and is so important, that only 1 person has been in the mass media putting the pressure on to get it. There are lots of ways of promoting something if you feel strongly enough about it. And I have not seen or heard anything really apart from a few people making similar comments to yourself and that is only when interviewed.

Sticking to the point in hand...I have already made my original pointbut to repeat, Ifeel it is stupid to apologise for something which the people alive in this country today had nothing to do with.

What is the number for this show you are listening to? Maybe I will ring in and see if I can get through?

Graphic..ok I'll remark the POINT again..regardless of whether it is a STATE or Private School this country does not TEACH a proper context of African or Slave history.. Has this point sunk in now? Thisis exactly the point I was making!lol! So my point is this you are an 'intelligent' adult there is nothing STOPPING you now from researching the true context of slavery...so please don't come with that as an excuse ok!!!I also made the point that I have and am continuing to do this.

Further what is STRANGE to you is your ignorance...Toyin is NOT one person how is it possible for an individual to be more than one person?!he is the founder of LIGALI which is an organisation, he is also part of an Alliance that actively seek to redress the imbalance of this Wiberfarce comemoration..had you RESEARCHEd your facts it would appear 'strange' to you simple..I did not see any of his fellow Ligali or Alliance or indeed blacknet members making the protest with him, he was by himself.Could all the members not have been outside waiting with placards and slogans and a protest if they really desperatly needed this apology. Or were they too busy typing about it?

Lastly on point..the 'apology' appear 'stupid' to you..because you are an European and you are ignorant of the facts.. now whilst you can't change being a Europeabn..you can do something about your ignorance and i suggest you do if you want to have a grown up debate on slavery...It seems we have been having a grown up debate already, it has been excellant I think, I have very much enjoyed debating with everyone here. ButI do conceed that perhaps I do need to research further(this does not alter how much I believe in what I have said here though!)but like i said I am doing this and will continue to do it.

graphics · (#253 (**permalink**))

Incognito wrote:

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graphics - one person? Toyin would be the first to tell you otherwise. You make me appreciate how superficial a view the general European has.

He is the one person I have seen actually doing something and making an active protest.

graphics · (#254 (**permalink**))

Incognito wrote:

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graphics wrote:

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Incognito wrote:

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graphics - lol. You make it sound like the media knew this action by Toyin was going to happen and they came by especially to catch it on film to show the world. The media and obviously you have caught yourself out.

If you didn't know before, now you know how suppressed our political activists are. I will suggest the only thing you know about the Africa struggle is what you see on the television. but then I don't even have to suggest it do I, you've just told me yourself LOL.

There is no reason for activists to feel that they aresurpressed. If activists get out there and make a fuss and do what they need to do, then it will get media covergae and we all know that is the key to getting what we want. If there is a mass protest in Parliament square, it cannot fail to be noticed.

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graphics - even Toyins actions last week were edited to suit people like you. I bet you think he's a lone madman don't you

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Not at all I have a lot of respect for him. He feels strongly about something so he goes out and uses a nedia which he knows the world will see or hear about and makes his point. Definitly not a mad man....clever.

Kunjufu · (#255 (**permalink**))

Graphic.......take your own advice and do some research into your own shaiilow questions..like i've said its not my job to school you..that yours... If you want to debate here then my friend you will need to know your stuff and you obviously don't so its going to make any meaningful discourse with you rather limiting... although i thought your attempt at geo politics was hilarious especially the bit about Africa requiring an industrial revolution...only a European could come up with something so breathtakingly insulting and not even realise that it was an insult!!!

lilsoulful1 · (#256 (**permalink**))

Do you know what's a joke, the biggiest joke is that the british public and people like 'Graphic' love to stand tall and take credit for the Abolition of slavery (which was not even entirely down to them) an abolition that happened 200 years ago, so as far as I can remember ... THEY were not there, THEY were not the ones siging papers for the abolition, THEY didn't even know their great ancestors who did this 200 years ago, yet in the same lines, they take no responsibility for the actual slavery and inhumane acts they caused and did 200 years ago, but take responsibilty for the abolition ... FULLOF SH*T

graphics · (#257 (**permalink**))

Kunjufu wrote:

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graphics wrote:

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In my opinion, which, like all opinons maybe wrong...parts of Africa need to go through an industrial revolution in order that people can build buisness and support themselves, and I would like to see everything done by the developed world in order to achieve this, including writing off debt.

Forum: i have highlighted this bit of Graphics post....to underline the ignorance i speak about... just in case some think I'm being rude to the man I am a woman actually!. Just for the record the industrial revolution in Britian was largely funded by SLAVERY.... and the Resources taken from the Americas and Africa...I dont doubt this is true but t does not change that fact that in order to get out of the terrible situations they are in, some parts of Africa need to go through their oen Industrial Revolution.Which I think should be funded by the developed world, would that not be reparations enough? Aside of the fact that we have been paying reparations for the last however many years through aid, liveaid, comic relief etc.NOT as this European asserts the product of ENGLISH ingenuity in isolation to the rest of the World... Where exactly did I assert this could you quote it on its own please?This Graphic is one of the reason why an APOLOGY is needed... to stop this type of ignorance from flourishing..So you think an apology by one person say the PM would stop the whole world being ignorant about slavery and its subsiquent issues? I think I am gonna need a better reason than that.

graphics · (#258 (**permalink**))

lilsoulful1 wrote:

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Do you know what's a joke, the biggiest joke is that the british public and people like 'Graphic' love to stand tall and take credit for the Abolition of slavery (which was not even entirely down to them) an abolition that happened 200 years ago, so as far as I can remember ... THEY were not there, THEY were not the ones siging papers for the abolition, THEY didn't even know their great ancestors who did this 200 years ago, yet in the same lines, they take no responsibility for the actual slavery and inhumane acts they caused and did 200 years ago, but take responsibilty for the abolition ... FULLOF SH*T

I dont want to take credit for the abolition, as you said I was not there, just as I was not there during slavery and will therefore not apologies for it. I just think the fact that these people did take part in the abolition is them admitting slavery was the wrong thing to be doing and thus in effect they already apologised, in thier own, relevant time.

graphics · (#259 (**permalink**))

Kunjufu wrote:

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Graphic.......take your own advice and do some research into your own shaiilow questions..like i've said its not my job to school you..that yours... If you want to debate here then my friend you will need to know your stuff and you obviously don't so its going to make any meaningful discourse with you rather limiting... although i thought your attempt at geo politics was hilarious especially the bit about Africa requiring an industrial revolution...only a European could come up with something so breathtakingly insulting and not even realise that it was an insult!!!

It is not meant as an insult at all, it is my opinon. Which I think is a very good one. What do you think is wrong with it as a suggestion? because we definitly need to be doingsomething different, what we are doing for Africa at the moment is clearly not helping so lets try something different and its got ot be industry, giving people a means to support themselves so they dont have to rely on handouts. Plus we need to sort out some of these terrible governments such as Mugabe as i said.

Incognito · (#260 (**permalink**))

graphics - Toyin was an invited member of the audience though admittedly invited on merit in the sense he's been in it for a long time and as fortune has it has worked himself into a position where he has earned the right to be invited. What do you know about the struggle before you saw this one man protesting on television. It was a spiritual calling in anger to the insult to African ancestors, it was not an opportunists cheapshot attempt to protest for an apology - we aint begging for nish but those like Toyin in the right place at the right time will not be insulted any further.

Bredder Tukoma · (#261 (**permalink**))

graphics wrote:

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In my opinion, which, like all opinons maybe wrong...parts of Africa need to go through an industrial revolution in order that people can build buisness and support themselves, and I would like to see everything done by the developed world in order to achieve this, including writing off debt.

While very noble of you/ your lack of your own countries history/ and of the slave trade reveals your ignorance of the fact that to replicate the speed and scope of British industralisation means that a country in Africa would have to have the same exports ratio/ minimum overheads/ and raw greed to pull off such a feat.

When you talk about the estimated 4 million poeple it employed in Britain alone. The arms industry. The shipping and insurance industry which is well represented and lucrativein British financial centres to this day. The pig iron exported to make the manacles/irons and other barbarous instruments. Nails/ furniture/ in fact the whole country was in one way or another involved in export to the illegal slave prisons. The 30+ acres of warehouses alone built in West India Quay in the aearly 19th century in the Docklands doesnt even begin to touch the scale of the illegal enterprise.

And you dare to question reparations. The scandalous debt owedwould only be a start. In real hard business and export and profit made on real goods not including by definition Africans..Britain would be in debt to Africa. We havent even spoken about colonialsation and the reasonZimbabwe fought and won a battle of liberation which finished as late as 1980.

African industralisation by the European model isnt even sustainable anyway. It abuses natural resources and pollutes the Earth. The way forward is much more sophisticated than that.