MGL, sometimes you're as funny as fcuk, but other times, like this post above, you get it soooooooooooo wrong.

What the hell did expect Leroy Logan to say, " yes i supported Toyins actions, in fact it would have been better had he punched the Queen on the chin"

Get real sir, what use is he to our community if hes signing on, which is exactly what he would be doing had he acted upon your wishes.

I dont know anything about this brother, so for all i know you could be right in your opinion about him. However if you're going to prove this brother is a sell-out, which is obviously what you're pointing to, please dont insult our intelligence with the above piece of shit you just posted.

Le Moore my man really got my blood stink..because what do you expect black people in certain very very delicate and some time down right dangerous and i mean it, where their own lives and personal safety is involved, to do make the same Afrocentric radical or angry or whatever statements which a political or grass roots leader can make and should make. They play different roles in the same war.

You also have to check Leroy has been involved with developing black youth for a very very long time and strong on enforcing the issue of not breaking the law..I personally disagree given my background and now we do what we have to..but i wouldn't run the man on that alone..He aint no Lee Jasper where there is so much evidence on him nobody of intelligence can support him..

I once received a letter from the M25 5 campaign leadership ,the case involve Raphael Rowe at my office when i was working for the police..You should have seen some of the things in this letter, absolute madness, and they want me to agree publicly or put my name to that..Crazy..Just better give me a call and say lets go for lunch we can sort out shit and they can get my full support and access to my resources and people. I compromise my Chief Constable as his principal advisor and whole heap of more important shit involving black people, both public and on the low by being associated with such crazy and inexperience people..

MGL and a whole heap of these loud mouths have no idea how real shit runs and how serious power works..I have family in security services at very high levels in the Caribbean who publicly agree with the US on terrorism etc and then as soon as their FBI/CIA officers get on a plane go behind their back and fxxxk them up and undermine them behind their backs..That's how this shit goes down.

K..'Said 'Fred: I don't think you're right on the above at all.. MGL knows exactly how things run, and i suspects understand completely the difficult position Leroy Logan was in when the question was put to him...

The question for me is MGL's informed decision to castigate all people who do not follow his line of BLACK issues in our best interest or the best way to promote an agenda..? Now i happen to think Leroy Logan was wrong and clearly out of touch with the mood on the ground on Toyin... However the other question is this..just because Logan disagrees with Toyin's action does it equally follow that he is a 'sell out'?

As i remember it Kwame ture [Stokely Carmicheal] disagreed with MLK on many issues.. but they were part of the same side.. on Civil rights, Du bios and Garvey were diametrically opposed to each other...Yet history puts them both on the same side in BLACK advancement..

So the final questions in this aside has to be is there ONLY ONE WAY to advance our agenda or many ways... and is our mistrust of each other so great that we have set the threshold of who is or is not a sell out far too low?
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Good set of serious questions and not sure i or anyone could dare attempt to answer them definitively..K..got to disagree with you..Leroy and other officers take a vow of loyalty to the Queen. That is who police officers swear their allegiances to and as Le Moore said even though i agreed with Toyin's actions down the line and don't care who knows it..I am not a serving police officer and one in his position and it is like spitting in the Queen's face on a crude level, even though in my view that is not what Toyin did, he made a dignified protest..But then I am not serving within the system the way Leroy is so can talk how i like to a greater degree.

So you are never going to get people in sensitive positions to openly agree of things they often agree with in private It's like the black man white woman thing don't ever expect them man to support you public on that even when they feel passionate about it..Because that is a rope around their necks and to white people that is straight up Black facist racism writ large..

It serves nobodies interest and especially ours..Leroy Logan is better where he is rather than some bone fide white woman loving and no nonsense coconut.. I agree with your second point..Me and my guys or me and you will argue the toss within the same team and organisation on tactics..The only difference i would hope is once the collective agree we all fall in line. So Leroy could agree with a whole heap of things and nuff people would be surprised on what many concious officers support..eg black independent institutions, lack of reliance on the state and a whole heap of things but they differ on others..That's life and healthy. I would say regarding Dubois and Garvey that was a sad tragedy of history which Garvey and his big mouth god bless him started, but Dubois literally duplicated Garvey's position in his middle and later life. But what is shows for me is Duboi's basic integrity to say he was wrong and to grow and move to another position

But yes they were against basically the same things, but came at them from a different angle initially and grew to merge and create a body of ideas which inform modern Pan Africanism today.

Final question is brilliant and i cannot answer it..But my hero Cabral can when he said the struggle is inside the country and outside the country..any and everywhere we find ourselves, on radio, schools or in the fields with peasant farmers..I think and this is my bear bug it is about our collective maturity as radicals and how we educate our people that this is not black and white or simple as that...Now i do not blame the present generation or radicals.. I feel they were let down badly by their predecessors or too many who due to their own folly did not leave a proper legacy intellectual or physical which new soldiers can learn from..So don't blame people really because they have not experienced the many sides of our war and the key players in it..Hence why i often write particular post not because i don't have things to do, but it is my duty to share certain things with new and younger soliders coming up. They can accept or reject..But i have done my duty to inform.

I am fortunate enough to have had that experience, and know for example because certain brothers have white women don't mean they aint passionate about fundamentals regarding their people..Black soldiers in Northern Ireland with them white girls, hearing white police who they view as cowards, pushing around their families in South London, burn them hard and want to help and eager to..African scientists in serious jobs, help us on the low, even if they have Swedish wife

So many have never experienced that and cannot be blamed..However, the lack of imagination or open mindedness to even consider the possibilities that things are not just black and white as Chairman Mao said is their own personal intellectual failure and nobody elses on a personal level..That is about basic brains and thinking..

K an after thought where i would criticise Leroy is how he worded what he said..But as i said earlier i am sure if i had briefed him he would have dropped it more better than that. The key issue is never make a statement that can be captured by the oppositions. Because i bet money there is nothing about Toyin's campaign that my boy would not agree with. But he could have been a bit sharper or slick in his response...

And that is about a discussion, a dialogue which we don't help by suddenly coming with the sell out business. I did not even know he made that comment, but saw him two weeks ago at a black men's things with nuff youth he brought from his various programmes and would have had that talk with him there..So that is a lesson from this. We need a strategy of dialogue with certain key brothers and sisters who are not hostile and on side outside the white or whatever media..

K..Listen i was searching the radio like a mad man..Came back to the forum and searching for JJ's Black Radio thread just in case i had the wrong frequency..Really pissed big time..

Nah man pissed..Spill the beans then.

I scanned through and caught some of it on Galaxy. Toyin was mainly speaking on what happened.
He told of his strong concern when he saw the police handling the youth. We know that he stoped in anycase to watch what was going on with the arrest but he became worried and uncomfortable at the way the youth was being handled; he actually compared it to what happened to rodney king without the beating; one had is knee on the boys neck on the ground, that was one thing he said that stayed with me. If I remember correctly he said the youth was becoming distressed at the amount of police that was restraining him (3 or so I think he said). The police was shouting at toyin to go away, it was none of his business. Go away, Go away he said they were shouting very agressively. He refused and said to the officer the "boy is my brother so it IS my business...." The officer (who was a woman) shouted back "your not his real brother so go away" Toyin refused. He was saying the officers started accusing him of 'obstructing and arrest' and if he doesnt go away he would be arrested. Toyin said that it was obsured they can charge him under the grounds of obstructing because the postion he had watching there was no way he could be obstructing. For one; he was standing a fair distance away from the arrest and he was looking down from something like a platform and two, HE WAS BEHIND RAILINGS! For him to get to them in anycase he had to go around the railings! He said a small croud of people had gathered watching and there was a sister there watching also and complaining at how they were handling the youth I believe. The youth then started to shout something like "call my mum, call my mum". I remember toyin saying he got his phone out and the police told him to put his phone away because he was not allowed to phone anyone while the youth is under arrest; they dont know for sure who is being called on. They started saying to toyin " you could be one of his mates calling on back up". From what I remember and understand toyin didnt put the phone away and one of the officers started coming at him ( i think it was the woman) and pushed him with both hands in his chest twice forcefully, each time yelling, " go away, go away". Another officer came around and told him he is under arrest. Toyin didnt resists arrest. From what I remember they wanted to him up against something ( I cant remember what) and toyin refused insisting "you are not putting me on that dirty (whatever it was)...." They procceded to literally slap on the handcuffs and a second police executed some manoeuvre that made his whole body drop to the floor on his knees. It was during this time in the whole commotion of trying to get toyin on the ground he accquired his injuries.
I dont know anything much after this point because I had to leave the room I was listening from but was told he was locked up, other prisoners who actually committed crimes came and left before him, he was refused his inhaler and that the officers started to deny some of the things they said to him inside the station.

@Sawyone..Thanks for that typical wanker bully boy moves..


@All The average copper or police in this country dumb like raas and their moves are stale. All about fear, but hope Toyin don't leave it there and go after these *******s for real.As for these white police women some of them worse. Told one to move or I will end her life and the other cops told her to back off...

But we can put these people in a corner by going after them. You see what people don't realise if you focus on particular officers and make people know their name and encourage others to go after them Use phone camera or whatever just go after them and let them know that is the case. LIke DC Randall in Broadwater Farm his name became to well know and they had to move him quick. What black people tend to is blow hot and then cold and these people get brave..But when we set on them the hunted become the hunter. A cop once threatened me after i told hi m i would rip out his heart and rape his gal in front of him. When he wanted to go on like him is bad..I told him there were three police shifts in a day how much money does he want to bet he would be dead within a week you should how scared he was. Invisibility is their power abuse our people and go home ,but once you change the game its all over. I know coppers who shit themselves if you bump into them out of the area when they are shopping with their family. Literally wet themselves..They are powerless outside of uniform.

The point i am making is that sorting out any cop is so easy it is a shame and they are cowards once off duty..I told him i could find out exactly when he leaves work. Simply phone the station if they are not there they will tell you what shift they are on..If not phone again..oily need to do it twice and you will know exactly what time they leave work.. Simple. Not suggesting violence well not here, but politically we can take it to these people. Get the names of the officers involved and start from there. The police cannot intimidate a whole community. Not possible and not in this day and age..

@MGL. man you are boring and know little about policing.Do you know how many black people support that shit coming out of Jarrets mouth.? A whole heap. From the sixties the police have always milked the support of ignorant or frightened black people who exist in numbers.When Rastas were getting some of the worse treatment ever seen in this town nuff black people and elders were backing them and calling for police to have power t do anything they wanted and kill their own blood. So you clearly don't know much about this subject and just boring the arse off me. I have copies of the Voice in hysterical mode quite recently calling for the police to do all kinds of things giving them a blank cheque. So Jarret aint saying shit really

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