Blair urges action against gangs







Mr Blair said ringleaders need to be identified There needs to be an "intense police focus" on the minority of young black Britons who are behind a spate of gun and knife attacks, Tony Blair has said.
He said laws on knife and gun-gangs needed to be toughened and the ringleaders "taken out of circulation".
In a speech, the prime minister added that most of the black community were "horrified at what is happening".
But they needed to be "mobilised" in denouncing the gangs killing "innocent, young, black kids", he added.
He was speaking in Cardiff in the wake of a series of fatal shootings and stabbings of teenagers, many of them in London, this year.
Secure accommodation
He said failing to stop the minority behind crime and anti-social behaviour was the "missing dimension" to an otherwise successful regeneration of towns and cities.
Earlier this month, getting someone to hide a weapon from the police became an offence under a range of measures brought forward in response to the incidents in the capital.







As a society we are failing young black kids

Commission for Racial Equality



Call for school knife detectors
Delivering the Callaghan Memorial Lecture on regeneration, Mr Blair said of the knife-and gun-gangs: "There needs to be an intense police focus on these groups.
"The ringleaders need to be identified and if necessary, taken out of circulation - if very young, as some are, put in secure accommodation."
Mr Blair said the vast majority of the black community are "decent, law-abiding people".
But he added: "We won't stop this by pretending that it isn't young black kids doing it."
The Commission for Racial Equality said people "shouldn't be afraid to talk about this issue for fear of sounding prejudiced".







I'm not sure where the prime minister has been, or who he's been talking to, if he thinks black communities have not been denouncing the gangs and gang activity

Black Christian Leaders' Forum
A spokesman said: "As a society we are failing young black kids. We mustn't place blame but ask why black children are more likely to live in poverty, be excluded from school and be stopped and searched by the police."
But the Black Christian Leaders' Forum said Mr Blair had failed to recognise there were already several church-led initiatives focused on the issue.
"I'm not sure where the prime minister has been, or who he's been talking to, if he thinks black communities have not been denouncing the gangs and gang activity," said Bishop Joe Aldred.
Lee Jasper, advisor to the Met Police's Operation Trident, which tackles gun crime within the black community, said the comments undermined progress made at a recent Downing Street gun summit.
"The black communities of the UK, and London in particular, have for almost a decade been warning government and local authorities that without additional resources for deprived black areas gun crime was going to get worse," he said.







Discuss?

Lee Jasper, advisor to the Met Police's Operation Trident, which tackles gun crime within the black community, said the comments undermined progress made at a recent Downing Street gun summit.
"The black communities of the UK, and London in particular, have for almost a decade been warning government and local authorities that without additional resources for deprived black areas gun crime was going to get worse," he said.

Here we go again, the gov recognise something needs to be done, however they fail to tackle fundamental issues which will really support upward mobility for the Black community - education,social housing, labour markets, and other inequalities we as a community face. However, as said numerous times before, are we really going to wait for the gov to take control of our own destiny? Do they really care that these guns and knives are killing off future generations of Black males - not really, do they really care that most of these perpertrators have lost hope. Part of this said speech also stated that thepolitical correctness had to go in-order to tackle this problem; a sure sign they will do nothing, because theysee the fundamental issues residing in our backyards. Maybe if we took Toyin's stance and protested for real change in the areas mentiond above, they wouldtake note that real change had to come fromredressing the injustice we so disproportionately experience,thus having devastating impacts on our future generations.

You this is the type of crap that really makes my blood boil.....really i can't wait for this jackarse to leave office and in fact i can't wait for Labour to be voted out of office.....soon the friggin better...

For once i agree with Lee Jasper...when he states 'here we go again' sound bite politics and playing to the gallery yet AGAIN!!! Really this type of behaviour by Tony Blair is nothing short of scandalous....

But he unfortunately is not alone..and sadly we have idiots Black people who follow this crap, buy into this crap without question the substance of this nonsense.......

If i may can I just remind people on BNV what this joker said in 1997...TOUGH ON CRIME, TOUGH ON THE CAUSES OF CRIME.. So hold on a minute...what happened did this slogan only apply to WHITE people? Are we as BLACK tax payer entiled to ask him what the HELL he and his goverment has been doing since 1997?

This is what's pissing me off...this is Tony Blair and the White people of the UK trying to have it yet again BOTH ways...

Either this is about the BRITISH people or it isn't...either these boys are by definition BRITISH and treated as such or they are not!!! All this ****ery about Black Boys as they somehow they are raised in a bloody vacuum away from the rest of society is bull do do, all this CRAP about 'Black community needs to mobalise to denounce crime' is an absolute disgrace.... and the fact that the BLACK members of his PARTY have not taken him to task on that outragous remark is also a disgrace!!!

When last did you hear this goverment ASK WOMEN to be mobalised to denounce rape, or White people to be mobalised to denounce the serious peadophile problem that is rife in thier midst? Since does a Community, any community have to 'mobalise' to state the BLOODY obvious when the government it voted in on 1997 got in on the ticket of being TOUGH ON CRIME, AND TOUGH ON THE CAUSES OF CRIME...

If i'm mobalising to tell them the obnvious aernt i entitled to ask what the HELL the police are doing, what the hell the Mayor is doing, his RACE advisor is doing, what the hell all those BLACK MP's in parliment are doing? and quitefrankly what the HELL Tony Blair is doing?

I'm so vex, how many ways can you tell these idiots what needs to be done, before they eithe GET IT or do what we want?

Seriously it is time the BLACK population QUESTIONS itself and the loyalaty it gives to the Labour at election time......No way no way on earth any Black person with two brain cells should vote for this party EVER again... and they should start by voting Ken Livingston out of office..and then the so called Labour party next...

K

I am sure not many black people know why Jasper of recently has been coming out with anti-Blair statements.

Problems occured that evening at a party hosten at no 10 and the rest is history

K

that evening there was exchange of words btn PM and Jasper and in the end Balir left the room where the party was being held. I suspect Jasper was sort of lil bit drunk or he intended to embarass the PM since then there has been some speculation that LJ as a backing of his boss Ken Livingstone..someone Blair tries to avoid confrontation with at all cost

Kunjufu,

You and I have, in times past, discussed different issues and are usually on different sides of the issue. At this point, rather than debate, I would like to ask you a question.

If you were PM, how would you deal with the issue of the many black youth who are being killed in the streets? How would you resolve the poverty that exist that supposedly is responsible for the crime that exist within the black community? If there is a faulicy within my question, please feel free to reword the question in an appropriate way as to answer the spirit of my question.

If anyone else (who believes the government should be doing something, other than arresting criminals,to reduce crime within our communites) would like to provide an answer to these questions, I would appreciate that as well.

I am open here. I really want to know how you think this issue can be resolved other thana grass roots effort on the part of the black community. It would also be helpful to prove your point, if you could point out an example in the world where the government has done something for a specific racial group that has resulted in eliminating or reducing crime and delivering that racial group out of poverty.



Kunjufu wrote:

Glory: what you’re asking is a complex question that really cannot be answered properly on one side of A4, if it could it would have been solved long long ago..also as I consistently maintain there isn’t ONE problem ie ‘black culture’but many problems indicative of living in a so called ‘developed society’ that much is very clear from working with vulnerable people….that's why I state that this is a UK issue..not a BLACK issue... it needs EVERYONE on board...not one section in isolation..



So as I’ve said previously on the issue of Criminal justice, I believe that this needs a route and branch change needed of perspective and practice…one where there are consequences for actions taken… Clearly it is not enough to just warehouse criminals or young people without a clear plan..this I what currently happens in the UK now…and with approaching 100,000 in prison it aint working.....Anyone who has been inside Feltham the main youth offender facility inLOndonwill tell you that 23 hours lock down is the norm for young offenders… that might sound great from a retribution standpoint.. However I can you it isn’t great, all this society is doing is breeding ever more vengeful criminal’s intent on payback…when they get out..



When I worked in another secure facility way back when, the programme was clear, it wasto detain and rehabilitate.. The problem then as now, is that it was poorly and inconsistently funded, the quality of the management and staff was poor..and although the structure had potential, it was consistently poorly executed.. My view is simply the moment you lock up a young person this system should have an exit strategy that is set out from the outset of jailing them..all efforts from that moment onwards should be focused to meet this plan… The problem then as it is now, is 1.. the reluctance to fund this process properly and 2. leaving the exit plan either until two or three weeks before release or worse no plan whatsoever with piss poor follow up in the community.



Lets be clear there is no point in having community supervision with probation officers routinelycarrying 40 plus cases..no one can supervise properly that many bodies… Tagging someone only tells you where they are..not what they are doing or who they are doing it with…therefore its a waste of time, containing the problem clearly doesn’t work..



Further if you do not give a young offender a route back into society, to respectability...what do they do..look for respect by other MEANS ....hence gun crime, hence knife crime, hence gangs and hence a drug culture....then you have a big big problem… Especially with an increasingly computerised country, the consequences for Black boys who mess up TODAY are not only severe they are life long in every sense of the word.. it wil restrict travel, insurances, jobs and even custody of children… MORE people today have easy access to YOUR records than ever before..so it is MUCH harder to go straight once you mess up...much harder...



So clearly there must be an incentive to go straight with rewards for those that do..and punishment for those who don’t…writing off boys from 12,13 year onwards is creating the very problems we are getting now…BUT these rewards must be earned…not given away for not doing bad that is the WRONG way round..



The Education system in this country is a mistake, especially at the point of school selection….the so called parental choice, brought in under Margaret Thatcher in the 80's is amother big factor… now instead of bad apples within a school, we are getting whole sink schools with all the unwanted and undesirable tossed in together… apart from the obvious message this sends out of ‘why bother’ , this policy is clearly making it hard to retain GOOD teachers in such schools…it is not unusual now for many school in London to cancell lesson because of teacher shortages orto have assistants taking lesson for months at a time... bored children make their own fun...so

what we get is the first the school and then the area spiralling out of control…



People keep talking about ‘role models’ but in reality the BEST role model is ones peers…and when I was at school and placed unfairly in the bottom classes based on colour rather than ability… the one thing that kept me going was the opportunity to get out if i worked hard...i cannot be encouraged to work hard if there are no teachers present...nor can i work hard if the classes are crap? ….plus If I am surrounded by people who don't give a toss.. is it likely or unlikely that i will follow suit... This for me is clearly where this idiotic idea of 'role models' fall down... I could mentor a child from now to kingdom come..but I motivate him/her to well and they all bouyed up..then blam they are faced with apathy from teacher and peers alike what then?

as a tax payer I ought to be entitled to a quality to school who will build on my work as a parent..however that is NOT happening..and whilst i can complain, surely there is a point where we must make the Goverment spend our taxes on our children...properly...

Now there are bits for the family and the community that I would add into this mix..but for the sake of brevity I will stop here..

@ Kunjufu

1) Your response was very short on "If you were PM, what would you do" and focused primarily on your view of the way things are currently and complaints about those things. You are now comming off as one of those people who have no viable plan of their own, but are fast to critisize everyone elses plan. I understand it is a "complicated" matter as you put it, but if you are critisizing the powers that be at their assesment of and solution to the problem, obviously you have a better plan. As I told you, I only want to focus on what YOU would do if you were PM. I would like a detailed, step by step plan on how you would resolve the problems we face as a community.

2) As a part of your asessment, you focused all of the problems at the foot of government and leaders. Considering that you are so critical of these leaders, it becomes vital to our conversation that you place your solution on the table for examination.

3) I personally don't want the government telling me how to raise my children. I personally want as little governmental envolvement in my life as possible. I teach my children that if they are not a productive member of society then society will be forced to separate them from general society (i.e. lock them up) or otherwise restrict their lives in a manner that will make life difficult for them to protect society from them. I also teach them that they are responsible for the consequencies that their negative behavior creates. They don't have the luxury to blame anyone else nor expect anyone to bail them out.

I am very curious to take a look at your plan to see what government program you can develop to compensate for proper home training, discipline and character.