Move out of your council flat you'll create even more enemies...you'll be considered a snob. Not everyone can move out of their high rise and many lazy people use that as an excuse to not even try.

If there was an answer or answers they would have been found ages ago, this thing doesn't turn back round overnight the most you can do is try to mitigate.

These people need to see and live real third world poverty, where there is nothing around to steal or rob to survive, where it's just them and the elements where only working together will they see daylight.

Murder amongst these lot today is normal, murder isn't even the issue, it's more how you do it, where you shoot them and what weapon you use...it's so common it's become an artform.

Prison is the new community for these people, they welcome and relish it like mammas Sunday sauce, indeed prisons are the new youth centres. Help but help from a distance if you can, your children should not have to bare witness to any of this shit much more be a victim of it.

I'm not saying doing good for yourself is a bad thing. I'm not saying I would want to live on an estate where children are being killed daily. My point is that individualistic thinking does not necessarily help to combat the problems we all face as a community. These serious issues require group effort to tackle, like most really big issues do. That means, just because you and your children are doing well, doesn't mean you cannot reach out to your neighbor's children who may not be doing so well. This means, getting involved in projects that may not necessarily be needed to help your children or nieces or nephews; but may save another persons child from becoming a murderer - or a victim of a murderer. In my eyes, that is really what 'doing good for yourself' is all about, if you are a part of this society than anything you do for others to benefit the society, will also be doing something for yourself. Don't forget, the more immoral blood thirsty children there are out there, who are prepared to kill for little and nothing, the bigger chance your well brought up, well disciplined children may die at their hands, so thinking about the community at large and attempting to do your bit to correct the current madness our youth are going on with may directly benefit you more than you know.

Like I said, a capitalist system is not designed so that everyone can do good, and have wealth and live in an affluent neighborhood and go to good schools and become company directors or multi-millionaires. Even in America which is seen as the land of milk and honey, there is great poverty, depravation and suffering... if you happen to be on the bottom of the pile. A capitalist system is like a pyramid where only a few are ever going to be able to have certain benefits, so if you understand the way the system operates, you will know that it is simply not possible for all (even those who are trying their hardest) to live very well. Someone will have to live in the poorest housing, someone will have to do the shit jobs otherwise society as we know it collapses.

We live in an unequal world where many do not even have food to eat every day and a minority of us (namely those living in western industrialised nations) throw away millions of pounds worth of food every day. What goes on within these nations is just a smaller scale of what is going on worldwide. London is one of the richest cities in the world, yet many London children are born and live in poverty and their life expectancy will be reduced due to that fact. City workers and their multi-million pound bonuses and Chelsea footballers inflated wages are worlds away from most Londoners day to day experience. It's not all because poor people are lazy. Many poor people are not lazy at all and work their fingers to the bone, and will do so until the day they die. Many people are indeed lazy (the poor and the not so poor) but laziness is not the reason why so many remain in poverty, while a few are able to amass great wealth. The reason for that is because the system is carefully designed for it to happen that way. You cannot seriously think we live in a society where things are totally equal, and you and I (I'm assuming you are from an ordinary family of immigrants from the Caribbean or Africa) have the same life chances as the children of the aristocracy. Have you heard of the term 'poverty cycle' and do you understand why it is perpetuated?

I strongly believe that the mentality of these children who are killing needs to be addressed, rather than just moving them out of a certain area, or moving their potential victims out of the area. Also, you have to look at what role their family are playing in how they turn out, rather than just the area they live in. Remember if they are moved out of an area, they are still part of the same family and capable of doing the same things elsewhere. Like I said, it's not as if I have all the answers, but it's not just as simple as the area people live that makes them commit these crimes. There are many children growing up in those areas who do not develop the mentality that makes a young person go on to commit these kinds of vicious, mindless crimes. The fact is, these killers are in a minority, maybe one in 500 or even 1000 - so for the good children out there, it won't be possible for all of their parents to remove them from harm's way, will it?

Do you think the royal family and other members of the aristocracy, and the biggest land owners and the richest families in the western hemisphere (whose money goes back generations) have all that wealth and privilege because they worked hard for it?? I hope you don't, because the truth is that the majority of the wealthiest people on the planet are also some of the laziest, in that they got what they have by theft and other forms of immoral behaviour (through slavery for example) and inheritance (born with a silver spoon in their mouths) - not because they worked very hard to get it.

I agree that this country is not the best place to bring up African children but many will be brought up here, like it or not, so African people have an obligation to try to make things better.

This stuff is trivial compared to what some see in their native lands. I'm all for personal responsibility but that will be wasted if it's not happening collectively. I'm as individual and independent as they come, pride myself on it but even I recognised there's no place for individualism and independence when it comes to family and community....you know weh me coulda deh! But as most of us will testify, no matter where you could have been, there's nothing better than living amongst your fellow Africans....council flat or not.

In a family/community the academic has a role to play which is just as equal in magnitude and significance to the role the mini cab driver has to play. My personal experience found me reasoning with the academics about their lack of community and reasoning with the wotliss for having no ambition - when you sit on the fence watching it all from middle ground the bridges that need to be built seem impossible.

But back to the comment about the system also being to blame, for all my independence and for all my ambition, no matter how educated, in this oppressive system , to get anywhere in life a grey man has to tick a box for you somewhere along the line. In many cases most don't even let you on the first rung on the ladder of your dreams because they no someone along the line will bring you to a sudden dead end. Any African man who hasd made anything in this system respect is due but as far as ticking those boxes is concerned, that is recognition that the system has a massive part to play in sorting this mess out.

A 14-year-old schoolboy has been questioned by Murder Squad detectives about the fatal shooting of teenage horse riding prodigy Nathan Foster, it emerged today.

Police say a 14-year-old suspect was arrested and taken into custody for questioned on Saturday but has since been released.

A Scotland Yard spokeswoman confirmed: "A 14-year-old male youth was arrested on Saturday in connection with the incident.

"He was questioned in custody at a south London police station, but has since been released."

The Metropolitan Police already know who committed this Murder.

Incognito: You're independent?

I thought you were against independence - or is it just independent women you are against, and in your eyes independent men are fine?

I'm very surprised to hear you calling yourself independent given your angry tirades against women who believe themselves to be independent.

Not trying to take the thread too off topic, but I had to comment on that.

They may well know who it is, but unless they have enough on the person to charge them, and enough on them to make a prosecution successful, they have no option but to wait until they do have enough evidence before they can hold the person in custody. If they don't follow this procedure the person ends up getting off on a technicality and the double jeopardy laws (not sure if they are still the same) mean they cannot go back and re-charge the person for the same crime - even if they do manage to collect more damning evidence down the line.

This is why they have to wait, bide their time, do their investigations and build the strongest case possible against a person before bringing charges, otherwise the case collapses before it gets to trial; or any conviction that is obtained is thrown out by a court of appeal and a killer walks free and becomes untouchable.

c&j - extremely independent, had to be because I know I'm very stubborn.....couldn't give people the privilege of having to depend on them and holding back my journey/mission, but as I said, I recognised there's no place for individualism and independence when it comes to family and community...

Even now if I borrow money I'll borrow more for the covenience as opposed to the necessity i.e. I remeber seeing this house up for sale but was about 2k short, borrowing from a bredrin or girlfriend was a better option to selling my car or going to the bank as most don't do things like 1 month loans.

But yeah, always borrow from within the family or at least give them first refusal as a means of keeping that family tight - in fact I see holding out my hand to the chosen few as my way of strengthening our friendship - me approaching them for it means I see our union as bigger than my independence but know enough to know they're not necessarily seeing it the same way...which at the end of the day probably just boils down to the different ways we learnt about money.

I'm so independent the only things I didn't do were the things I expected a person of the feminine kind would feel deprived of if I did do it...but alas

Even so, for all my independence, my life of contrary meant it was a double edged sword, my individual success with all the salary hikes meant nothing if my people weren't there to enjoy it with me so squandered most of my life helping others in the belief the were also helping me reach our common destination...Africa...but alas...I've even been accused of trying to buy friends when effectively giving stuff away and working for free which puts us neatly back on topic in that I guess in todays climate I would have got shot.

MGL - this whole thing with all the news headlines is becoming a frigging circus.

Quote: Comfortandjoy


The system is not designed for EVERYONE to be able to work themselves up to the stage where they can live in an affluent area.

Yes but lets not divert from the topic here, the pros and cons of capitalism are for another thread

I don't think the correct attitude to have is one where we say. "**** eveyone else, as long as I'm allright."

No not at all. I agree with you. That's not my attitude, never has been.

Other communities understand the meaning of COMMUNITY and we also need to if we are to improve our collective situation.

I'm sorry but f-ck community if it means I've got to live in an area of 'badminds', and I run the risk of being killed in a mistaken identity or something chupid like that. The fact is that if I died like this, a few people would cry boohoo, (and leave pointless rips on message boards) but ultimately no-one would give a shit. The killers probably wouldn't be caught, and my family would be distraught. So ultimately, f-ck everyone else, my loyalty is to my fam first.

And anyway, why can we have a community of middle class black people? Why is it whenever you mention black community its always got to be living on some rank estate in South London? F-ck that community. I ain't never gonna be part of that. Never have been.

Even if someone is determined to get their family off an estate.... what happens to their children in the meantime?

This is the thing. We all pretend that the bad people are "over there somewhere..." The fact is that WE all contribute to the creation of these f-cked up people. WE ALL create the environment that allows these people to thrive. WE ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE. Think about it, If there was a killer, drug dealer in the middle of the Hamptons or somewhere, how long do you think it would be before this person is caught? It would be seconds.

Yet in the black community, we'd rather let serious criminals get away with this shit because of 'no snitch' and 'f-ck the police' attitudes...then we wonder why shit gets out of control. Its funny really.


They are now saying the average price for a home in London will be £300,000 by 2012, if current trends are anything to go by. Many people are not in a position and may never be in a position to take on a mortgage to finance the purchase of a house for 300 grand. These people should be able to raise their families safely on housing estates, in social housing - like they were able to 15-20 years ago.

I know its hard - but for chrissakes too many people are taking it easy, that's the problem!!!! Too many people ignore education then act all surprised when life gets hard and they only got the qualifications to work in MacD. And for your knowledge I've worked in MacD too!

I don't have all the answers, like everyone else I do not know the solution to this problem of our youth killing each other

Ofcourse its a complicated situation, with complex solutions.

What about the children who are unfortunate not to have parents who have the wherewithal to get them out? Is it okay if they die violently? No of course it isn't, that's why the solution cannot come from us all running away to 'safe' areas.

You sure about that? So if you became affluent enough to move, you wouldn't? I'm not talking about moving to the country here, I'm saying allow those f-cked up areas. There's plenty of black people doing well for themselves, and they have to live somewhere. Find them and move in next to them I say.

Stick-uplid - I don't even think we all pretend, many if not most genuinely do not have any ambition and somewhere to squat and f**k all day everyday is all they need
. We used to be told women would go out of their way to get pregnant just to get a council flat....these women are thinking about themselves not the next generation and the men are just as bad, more babymothers with council flats the more options they have - but I'm from your school, you'd have to come from the slums in JA to look at some of these high rise shitholes and call them home.

But same way I hear you on the pretend tip, you know who the hypocrites are because they're all telling their children to be doctors and accountants so they don't have to be raise their children in the dumps they grew up in. I call it putting the onus on the next generation because you squandered your opportunity on weed, wine and sex.
Too many of us only see sense when we've had our fill and our hungry belly pikney are looking us in our eyes...no wonder nuff man have to kick off and run...they're embarrassed.

At the same time many of these council flats could be very decent places to live if they were populated with community wide ambition.