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Default 22-04-08, 11:07 AM

Clinton works to sway black women


WINSTON-SALEM --Hillary Clinton, running against a black candidate while trying to become the first female president, is working to attract one group of possible swing voters: black women.

They frequently introduce her at rallies. One of her television ads consists entirely of comments from a black woman in Texas. And today several prominent black leaders -- male and female -- are scheduled to tour North Carolina on Clinton's behalf.

On Friday, the New York senator held a forum at Wake Forest University with Maya Angelou, one of the nation's most prominent poets -- and also a black woman.

"Hillary Clinton is a woman who takes responsibility for the time she takes up and the space she occupies," Angelou said, reading from a piece of prose she wrote in Clinton's honor.

"She has been there, done that, seen that and has still risen," Angelou said.

Black women who vote Democratic face a unique choice this election year -- between one presidential candidate who shares their gender and another, Barack Obama, who shares their race. So which will they choose?

In an hour-long conversation that drew repeated standing ovations at Wake Forest, Angelou chose to mention Clinton's gender.

"I watched her as she was on the front page of every paper in the world," Angelou said, alluding to Clinton's response to the Monica Lewinsky scandal. "And I watched her stand."

Clinton returned the compliment, calling Angelou "one of my `sheroes.' "

Highlighting gender could help Clinton as she tries to make North Carolina competitive ahead of the May 6 primary. But the strategy has risks, too, because it presumes black women will vote based on either race or gender.

"It's not an issue of voting for someone just because she's a woman. You have to look at the issues," said Brenda Baker of Raleigh as she left an Obama rally Thursday.

Baker, who is black, said she's supporting the Illinois senator because of his stances on education and health care, though Clinton and Obama have largely similar policy positions.

Polls suggest that the overwhelming majority of black women in North Carolina support Obama. A recent Observer/WCNC poll found that women in general were evenly split between the two Democrats, but that black women overwhelmingly favored Obama while white women heavily favored Clinton.

An Elon University Poll released Friday showed black women are more likely to view Obama favorably, said poll director Hunter Bacot. But, he added, each candidate fared well overall.

"Beyond all the rhetoric, I think what you see is that Democrats have two candidates they can live with," Bacot said.

Exit polls after the Feb. 12 Virginia Democratic primary showed black men supporting Obama 93 percent to 7 percent while black women gave him an 88 percent to 12 percent advantage.

Clinton spokeswoman Traci Otey Blunt said the polls are not deterring the campaign.

"Senator Clinton has not conceded any vote," Blunt said. "It's not, `This community's not with me today, so I'm just going to turn my back.' "

Democrats have two good options, said former Mecklenburg commissioner Wilhelmenia Rembert. She said she's supporting Obama because of his "ability to inspire people to a higher cause, to a sense that we're all in this together."

Rembert, who is black, said neither race nor gender influenced her decision. But she said Clinton has already tasted presidential power more than anyone who's black.

"On almost every occasion that there's been a white male in the White House, there's been a white female in the White House," Rembert said, referring to first ladies. "She was not the commander in chief, but she was in a very powerful position. No African American has ever been in that position."

Sarah Stevenson, co-founder of Charlotte's Tuesday Morning Breakfast Forum, also said she is supporting Obama but not because he, like she, is black. She cited his energy and the issues he's talking about.

This year's choice highlights historic tensions between the movements for civil rights and women's rights, said Michele Tracy Berger, associate professor for women's studies at UNC Chapel Hill.

"For some African American women, I think Clinton's role really brings up some longstanding challenges in terms of alliance-building," Berger said.

"There are some African American women who, when they look at Clinton, they perhaps see someone coming out of a very privileged life," she said. "But opposite that, there are a lot of African American women who are supporting Clinton."

Perhaps the nation's most famous black woman, Oprah Winfrey, is supporting Obama and has helped him raise money.

But on Friday, Clinton basked in the support of Maya Angelou, who spoke of first meeting Clinton when she was first lady of Arkansas. "Many years ago," Angelou said, "I started watching a rainbow."

Angelou referenced old battles over gender roles when Bill Clinton first ran for president. Recalling a gaffe from the 1992 campaign, when Hillary Clinton talked about choosing a career over domestic duties, Angelou noted: "One of the first things she said was, `If you expect me to make cookies... .' "

Angelou paused without finishing the quote -- and the audience joined in laughter.

Charlotte Observer | 04/18/2008 | Clinton works to sway black women


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Pennsylvania Primaries Today.
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Exclamation Pennsylvania Primaries Today. - 22-04-08, 11:08 AM

I'm expecting some reportage from our American friends please,numbers links and such.


Thank You.


I aint asking for nothing,just open the door and i\'ll take it myself-James Brown.
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Default 22-04-08, 05:22 PM

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Originally Posted by jett Black View Post
I'm expecting some reportage from our American friends please,numbers links and such.


Thank You.


So??wot a gwaan? A weh di BNV pundits deh???


I aint asking for nothing,just open the door and i\'ll take it myself-James Brown.
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Default 22-04-08, 05:24 PM

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Originally Posted by Gmahogany777 View Post
I'm not pretending that he is. If I thought he was ANY of those dudes, I wouldn't be taking up my time and energy discussing him,and I would not have voted for him on Super Tuesday. See, unlike most BLack folks, I don't peceive Clarence, Armstrong and their ilk as the MOST dangerous to our agenda. They can be problematic,and annoying, but they are only so dangerous. We KNOW what we're getting from them. We know that they intend us no good. The amount of damage they can do is necessarily limited,(unless we get stuck on stupid like we did in Clarence's case and IGNORE their clear tom tendencies over some gender war bullshit like we did).Negroes are not likely to take their eye of the ball, with that kind of Negro, not likely to sleep on them, etc.
??? G, I don't understand how Barack is worse. I can't even understand why would he not be "better".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmahogany777 View Post
[
The open/clear Tom/sell out kind of Black person is not the only kind of Black person who can end up hurting/ not helping our agenda. Black "leaders"/people who are not Toms, and may not have ill will towards us, at all, do as much, or MORE damage to us as the aforementioned do as a result of being: weak, spineless, easily corrupted, easily co-opted,easily distracted, developing selective amnesia,, buying in to the "messiah" complex that we INSIST on bestowing on them, more concerned about getting into office and staying there(even when it conflicts with our interests/agenda), typciall because we never even intimated that we would hold them accountable for anything. All they have to do is be Black and not be a Tom. That's a mere STARTING point for me, not the ending point, as it appears to be for most of us.
How much has it hurt "Black" folks to believe in "White" Messiahs??? "Black" people thought Bill Clinton was the Second Coming, simply because he could knew the words to "Lift Every Voice".

I hear you, G. Yes, there needs to be an honest debate on the issues. Yes, "Black" folks should make sure this brotha is tested. I understand all that. All I can see is how he doesn't fit our standards and to that I must agree. But "Whites" will never elect the person I want to be President. And that guy would never run for Office anyway.

You talk as though we hold "White" politicians accountable. . .and not the "Black" ones.

G, we don't hold anyone accountable. Ever. And that is the truth. I won't debate with you about whether you should or should not vote for Barack. I understand both sides. But you refuse to believe that "Black" folks who are voting for Barack may not be so simple-minded. Barack didn't get our vote because he was "Black". He didn't get it because he was a Democrat. He got our vote because he appears to be a conscious brotha, one who is aware of the racial issues, the problems within the "Black" community, and he is still able to capture "White" votes.

Sharpton would have been a great candidate. But he was too polarizing, 3% of "Whites" would vote for him. Ken Blackwell would get a lot of "White" votes, but he is a sellout.

Barack is not a sellout and he can appeal to "Whites". That is why "Blacks" are voting for him in droves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmahogany777 View Post

I'll give a Black candidate the benefit of the doubt to a point, but once I start to see SIGNS of that kind of thing, before they're even in office(for WHATEVER reason), I start to pump my brakes and say maybe we don't need to be giving this person carte blanche and 90% of our vote, sight unseen. Maybe we oughta get half up front and the othe half after the show, like they tell you to do in showbiz,lol.

I'll put it in another kind of context. You ever have a friend that is spineless and has no backbone or will do whatever to get along or be liked?That when push comes to shove, in matters big or small, just can't be trusted to have your back. Not because they don't LIKE you or because they hate you, but just because they are a punk,or overly concerned with being liked,lol. I did once, and I got rid of them post haste. Why? because having friends/allies who are spineless, who can't or won't have your back is DANGEROUS. It's as dangerous or MORE dangerous than having ENEMIES,truth be told. That friend may have all of the good intentions in the world towards you, may love you to pieces, but when push comes to shove, it won't amount to a hill of beans, and may end up utimately phucking you up more than if you had started getting buddy buddy with an enemy. In friendships you can't buy an insurance policy against that type of thing,so I just had to get rid of the friend. In politics you CAN buy a little bit of an insurance policy it's called ACCOUNTABILITY and maintaining political LEVERAGE.
G, he has to prove that he is spineless. Your criteria is a lot different. I mean look at the pandering by almost every other politician in the race. I say almost, because there are ones who do not (Mike Gravel). But Hillary can be a gun-toting hunter one day and fighting for gay rights on the next day. This is the nature of American politics.

Indeed, I would want the second coming of Malcolm to be President. But I never pretended that would be reality. I was certain that Condoleeza Rice, Ken Blackwell, or someone else would be the first "Black", Woman, or both President. Then "Whites" would proclaim the end to all of racism/sexism.

We did not get that. We got a brotha. . .again. . .who is married to nuthin' but a sista. He has two beautiful "Black" babies. Attends a "Black" Nationalist church five minutes from my house in one of the most violent neighborhoods in all of Chicago. I don't have to tell you how crazy it has been here this year. He walked these streets for years and became a "Black" man, when he did not have to. He could have been Tiger Woods for President. He resisted that.

The moves he has made to distance himself from us are the ones he had to make to get into the White House. There is no other path for a "Black" candidate, they must enter through the back door.

We need to make up our minds on this. Either we want a "Black" man in the White House or we do not. To pretend that we will get everything we want in a "Black" candidate is not even trying to be real. Both you and I know how much hunger there is in the "Black" community for change. People have piled their hopes and dreams on his back. But they do that with "White" candidates too.

The reaction of our people to his candidacy is natural. It is expected. Sure I wish that "Black" folks were much more questioning of his views and his plans for our community.

But I have so many wishes for "Black" people they are too numerous to count. I work as hard as I can. . .and I pray even harder for our survival and success.

My Queen understand this. I would never question your devotion to this community. I have gotten into it with certain members here. But I respect your opinions so highly, you don't have to doubt my support for you. . .for one second.

But I respectfully disagree on this singular issue.

Peace to you sister.


“If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning.

http://www.covenantwithblackamerica.com
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Default 22-04-08, 05:43 PM

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Originally Posted by jett Black View Post
I'm expecting some reportage from our American friends please,numbers links and such.


Thank You.

Well. . .I will start. Right now, Clinton is expected to take the state by 6 points. Most polls show her lead between 5 and 8. My gut tells me that it might be higher than that projection. I think between 8 and 10.

Historically, Obama has overpolled in these situations. He will win North Carolina by a bigger margin. That will mostly offset Hillary's win in Pennsylvania.


“If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning.

http://www.covenantwithblackamerica.com
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Default 22-04-08, 06:17 PM

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??? G, I don't understand how Barack is worse. I can't even understand why would he not be "better".



How much has it hurt "Black" folks to believe in "White" Messiahs??? "Black" people thought Bill Clinton was the Second Coming, simply because he could knew the words to "Lift Every Voice".

I hear you, G. Yes, there needs to be an honest debate on the issues. Yes, "Black" folks should make sure this brotha is tested. I understand all that. All I can see is how he doesn't fit our standards and to that I must agree. But "Whites" will never elect the person I want to be President. And that guy would never run for Office anyway.

You talk as though we hold "White" politicians accountable. . .and not the "Black" ones.

G, we don't hold anyone accountable. Ever. And that is the truth. I won't debate with you about whether you should or should not vote for Barack. I understand both sides. But you refuse to believe that "Black" folks who are voting for Barack may not be so simple-minded. Barack didn't get our vote because he was "Black". He didn't get it because he was a Democrat. He got our vote because he appears to be a conscious brotha, one who is aware of the racial issues, the problems within the "Black" community, and he is still able to capture "White" votes.

Sharpton would have been a great candidate. But he was too polarizing, 3% of "Whites" would vote for him. Ken Blackwell would get a lot of "White" votes, but he is a sellout.

Barack is not a sellout and he can appeal to "Whites". That is why "Blacks" are voting for him in droves.



G, he has to prove that he is spineless. Your criteria is a lot different. I mean look at the pandering by almost every other politician in the race. I say almost, because there are ones who do not (Mike Gravel). But Hillary can be a gun-toting hunter one day and fighting for gay rights on the next day. This is the nature of American politics.

Indeed, I would want the second coming of Malcolm to be President. But I never pretended that would be reality. I was certain that Condoleeza Rice, Ken Blackwell, or someone else would be the first "Black", Woman, or both President. Then "Whites" would proclaim the end to all of racism/sexism.

We did not get that. We got a brotha. . .again. . .who is married to nuthin' but a sista. He has two beautiful "Black" babies. Attends a "Black" Nationalist church five minutes from my house in one of the most violent neighborhoods in all of Chicago. I don't have to tell you how crazy it has been here this year. He walked these streets for years and became a "Black" man, when he did not have to. He could have been Tiger Woods for President. He resisted that.

The moves he has made to distance himself from us are the ones he had to make to get into the White House. There is no other path for a "Black" candidate, they must enter through the back door.

We need to make up our minds on this. Either we want a "Black" man in the White House or we do not. To pretend that we will get everything we want in a "Black" candidate is not even trying to be real. Both you and I know how much hunger there is in the "Black" community for change. People have piled their hopes and dreams on his back. But they do that with "White" candidates too.

The reaction of our people to his candidacy is natural. It is expected. Sure I wish that "Black" folks were much more questioning of his views and his plans for our community.

But I have so many wishes for "Black" people they are too numerous to count. I work as hard as I can. . .and I pray even harder for our survival and success.

My Queen understand this. I would never question your devotion to this community. I have gotten into it with certain members here. But I respect your opinions so highly, you don't have to doubt my support for you. . .for one second.

But I respectfully disagree on this singular issue.

Peace to you sister.
I'm only going to respond to a couple of things you said, my beloved......I feel I've said more than enough in these pages to explain why I arrived at the place I'm at.

I gave an explanation earlier in this thread, I believe ,about why it often happens that the politician who has the most "good intentions" and pays the most lip service to effecting a certain agenda, is often ineffective, if not downright sabotaging, in actually furthering that agenda because they are too hamstrung/paralyzed/prone towards tip toeing around and worried about offending the most powerful parts of their 'fragile coalition", to do anything of use. I used the Johnson/Kennedy example and I believe it was appropos. Kennedy gets all of Black folks love and admiration, and the undeserved credit, while Johnson who did very little talking and grandiose speech making or engaging in symbolism ,but knew how to cudjole as well as twist arms, and kick ass, actually got sh*t done, when it came Civil RIghts legislation. WHy? Because he was not hamstrung by worrying about tip toeing around/not offeniding /kow towing to, white Southerners the way Kennedy was, because he(Johnson) WAS a white Southener.

Believing in White Messiahs has definitely hurt Black folks, and Black folks mistakenly viewed Bill Clinton as being more than what he was. That had everything to do with US, and nothing to do with him,btw. That is why we do the same thing with non white candidates,(it's our issue not theirs,lol). I DID NOT vote for Bill Clinton in 92, as I've stated several times on this Board over the years, including in this thread. I didn't vote for him precisely BECAUSE I did not like the way he ran his CAMPAIGN as it related to Black folks,(the SIster Souljah/Jesse Jackson thing). WHy?? do you ask, eventhough he was certainly the better choice for Black folks than either Bush number 1 or Ross Perot(whom I DID vote for).

Because I know and understand that how you allow a mofo to treat you WHILE he's getting elected sets the tone for how he will treat you AFTER he gets elected,(both in TONE and POLICY,btw). No use in analyzing it and bitching about it about it 16 years later, like a lot of Johnny Come Lately Negroes are doing in reference to the Clintons. I was out of step with the majority of Negroes THEN and I'm out of step with the majority of Negroes NOW, I'm good with that. I do what allows me to maintain my sense of self respect and dignity, even when it can be characterized as cutting off my nose to spite my face,lol. In short,
I DO hold white politicians accountable, and because of that, I have no qualms about holding Black ones accountable TOO.

I dig what you said about disagreeing without being disagreeable or losing respect for/casting aspersions on the other person, because you know their TRACK RECORD. A lot of BLack folks have been sorely lacking in that regard, of late.

Peace to you,too, Brother.


"I ain't scared of u mutherphuggers"-Bernie Mack
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Default 22-04-08, 08:14 PM

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Originally Posted by Judge J View Post
Clinton works to sway black women


WINSTON-SALEM --Hillary Clinton, running against a black candidate while trying to become the first female president, is working to attract one group of possible swing voters: black women.

They frequently introduce her at rallies. One of her television ads consists entirely of comments from a black woman in Texas. And today several prominent black leaders -- male and female -- are scheduled to tour North Carolina on Clinton's behalf.

On Friday, the New York senator held a forum at Wake Forest University with Maya Angelou, one of the nation's most prominent poets -- and also a black woman.

"Hillary Clinton is a woman who takes responsibility for the time she takes up and the space she occupies," Angelou said, reading from a piece of prose she wrote in Clinton's honor.

"She has been there, done that, seen that and has still risen," Angelou said.

Black women who vote Democratic face a unique choice this election year -- between one presidential candidate who shares their gender and another, Barack Obama, who shares their race. So which will they choose?

In an hour-long conversation that drew repeated standing ovations at Wake Forest, Angelou chose to mention Clinton's gender.

"I watched her as she was on the front page of every paper in the world," Angelou said, alluding to Clinton's response to the Monica Lewinsky scandal. "And I watched her stand."

Clinton returned the compliment, calling Angelou "one of my `sheroes.' "

Highlighting gender could help Clinton as she tries to make North Carolina competitive ahead of the May 6 primary. But the strategy has risks, too, because it presumes black women will vote based on either race or gender.

"It's not an issue of voting for someone just because she's a woman. You have to look at the issues," said Brenda Baker of Raleigh as she left an Obama rally Thursday.

Baker, who is black, said she's supporting the Illinois senator because of his stances on education and health care, though Clinton and Obama have largely similar policy positions.

Polls suggest that the overwhelming majority of black women in North Carolina support Obama. A recent Observer/WCNC poll found that women in general were evenly split between the two Democrats, but that black women overwhelmingly favored Obama while white women heavily favored Clinton.

An Elon University Poll released Friday showed black women are more likely to view Obama favorably, said poll director Hunter Bacot. But, he added, each candidate fared well overall.

"Beyond all the rhetoric, I think what you see is that Democrats have two candidates they can live with," Bacot said.

Exit polls after the Feb. 12 Virginia Democratic primary showed black men supporting Obama 93 percent to 7 percent while black women gave him an 88 percent to 12 percent advantage.

Clinton spokeswoman Traci Otey Blunt said the polls are not deterring the campaign.

"Senator Clinton has not conceded any vote," Blunt said. "It's not, `This community's not with me today, so I'm just going to turn my back.' "

Democrats have two good options, said former Mecklenburg commissioner Wilhelmenia Rembert. She said she's supporting Obama because of his "ability to inspire people to a higher cause, to a sense that we're all in this together."

Rembert, who is black, said neither race nor gender influenced her decision. But she said Clinton has already tasted presidential power more than anyone who's black.

"On almost every occasion that there's been a white male in the White House, there's been a white female in the White House," Rembert said, referring to first ladies. "She was not the commander in chief, but she was in a very powerful position. No African American has ever been in that position."

Sarah Stevenson, co-founder of Charlotte's Tuesday Morning Breakfast Forum, also said she is supporting Obama but not because he, like she, is black. She cited his energy and the issues he's talking about.

This year's choice highlights historic tensions between the movements for civil rights and women's rights, said Michele Tracy Berger, associate professor for women's studies at UNC Chapel Hill.

"For some African American women, I think Clinton's role really brings up some longstanding challenges in terms of alliance-building," Berger said.

"There are some African American women who, when they look at Clinton, they perhaps see someone coming out of a very privileged life," she said. "But opposite that, there are a lot of African American women who are supporting Clinton."

Perhaps the nation's most famous black woman, Oprah Winfrey, is supporting Obama and has helped him raise money.

But on Friday, Clinton basked in the support of Maya Angelou, who spoke of first meeting Clinton when she was first lady of Arkansas. "Many years ago," Angelou said, "I started watching a rainbow."

Angelou referenced old battles over gender roles when Bill Clinton first ran for president. Recalling a gaffe from the 1992 campaign, when Hillary Clinton talked about choosing a career over domestic duties, Angelou noted: "One of the first things she said was, `If you expect me to make cookies... .' "

Angelou paused without finishing the quote -- and the audience joined in laughter.

Charlotte Observer | 04/18/2008 | Clinton works to sway black women
Wait! Has Angelou endorsed Clinton????This must not be sitting too well with Oprah,I thought those too were thick as thieves,although I did hear rumours of a falling out over some wack shit...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDogon View Post
Well. . .I will start. Right now, Clinton is expected to take the state by 6 points. Most polls show her lead between 5 and 8. My gut tells me that it might be higher than that projection. I think between 8 and 10.

Historically, Obama has overpolled in these situations. He will win North Carolina by a bigger margin. That will mostly offset Hillary's win in Pennsylvania.

Thank You.


I aint asking for nothing,just open the door and i\'ll take it myself-James Brown.
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Default 22-04-08, 09:36 PM

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Originally Posted by Gmahogany777 View Post
I'm only going to respond to a couple of things you said, my beloved......I feel I've said more than enough in these pages to explain why I arrived at the place I'm at.

I gave an explanation earlier in this thread, I believe ,about why it often happens that the politician who has the most "good intentions" and pays the most lip service to effecting a certain agenda, is often ineffective, if not downright sabotaging, in actually furthering that agenda because they are too hamstrung/paralyzed/prone towards tip toeing around and worried about offending the most powerful parts of their 'fragile coalition", to do anything of use. I used the Johnson/Kennedy example and I believe it was appropos. Kennedy gets all of Black folks love and admiration, and the undeserved credit, while Johnson who did very little talking and grandiose speech making or engaging in symbolism ,but knew how to cudjole as well as twist arms, and kick ass, actually got sh*t done, when it came Civil RIghts legislation. WHy? Because he was not hamstrung by worrying about tip toeing around/not offeniding /kow towing to, white Southerners the way Kennedy was, because he(Johnson) WAS a white Southener.

Believing in White Messiahs has definitely hurt Black folks, and Black folks mistakenly viewed Bill Clinton as being more than what he was. That had everything to do with US, and nothing to do with him,btw. That is why we do the same thing with non white candidates,(it's our issue not theirs,lol). I DID NOT vote for Bill Clinton in 92, as I've stated several times on this Board over the years, including in this thread. I didn't vote for him precisely BECAUSE I did not like the way he ran his CAMPAIGN as it related to Black folks,(the SIster Souljah/Jesse Jackson thing). WHy?? do you ask, eventhough he was certainly the better choice for Black folks than either Bush number 1 or Ross Perot(whom I DID vote for).

Because I know and understand that how you allow a mofo to treat you WHILE he's getting elected sets the tone for how he will treat you AFTER he gets elected,(both in TONE and POLICY,btw). No use in analyzing it and bitching about it about it 16 years later, like a lot of Johnny Come Lately Negroes are doing in reference to the Clintons. I was out of step with the majority of Negroes THEN and I'm out of step with the majority of Negroes NOW, I'm good with that. I do what allows me to maintain my sense of self respect and dignity, even when it can be characterized as cutting off my nose to spite my face,lol. In short,
I DO hold white politicians accountable, and because of that, I have no qualms about holding Black ones accountable TOO.

I dig what you said about disagreeing without being disagreeable or losing respect for/casting aspersions on the other person, because you know their TRACK RECORD. A lot of BLack folks have been sorely lacking in that regard, of late.

Peace to you,too, Brother.
Well, it is always a pleasure to talk with you, G.

Either way, I feel the most effective way to combat the type of manipulation you talk about is by building a stronger "Black" community.

But I am not really sure about how to do that. And too many "Black" people find excuses not to start working towards that.


“If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning.

http://www.covenantwithblackamerica.com
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