Originally Posted by Geoff

Just randomly visiting your posts nonblackguy, I think as another visitor to this Black forum, that you sir are a bit of a wind up.


I shall try and ignore you.

Originally Posted by Kunjufu

I have a news flash for you.....Zimbabwe will almost certainly descend into civil war If it is perceieved that Mugabe STOLE the election..and given that the results has YET to be publish it is difficult for him or his supporters to refute that charge against him...


You know 4 years before they had the elections of 2008, they accused Mugabe of stealing it. Has it ever occurred to you that his opposition tried to steal the election, which is why it is taking so long to give out the results? It aint hard to steal an election with the technology they have today, just ask George Bush--he did it twice. Mugabe is 84 years old. I'm forty something and don't have the energy to do ish. Why will an 84 years old man want to keep struggling so hard? It's because of the same spirit and strength that drove him to pick up the gun and go to the bush in the first place. The man loves his people, his land and his space in the world, and he has pride as a man--a black man.


Also please do not paint me as some naive observer who is unaware of the legacy of Zimbabwe....far from it... So whilst i might agree that the colonalist history is party affecting the issues now.. it is NOT fair to say that Mugabe has NO responsiblity for the mess that Zimbabwe appears to be in now...

What responsibility do he have, man? It's hard enough to run a Country when you have 60 percent of the world's wealth and no outside force spending 24/7 trying to ruin you and your Nation. If Mugabe is such an incompetent demon to blame for Zimbabwe woes, who do we blame for the great depression that's about to hit the U.S., Obama? We know no white man can possibly run a Nation with 60 percent of the world's wealth into the ground.

You say Mugabe is holding Zimbabwe together, you maybe right....but i question whether he is the vanguard of Africa..or whether he is protecting Africa as you think.. another view of the situation could be that he is in fact making it easier for the colonalist to retake Zimbabwe by making the other sell out breed look like a saint..and thus justifying any overt or covert action to topple Mugabe...

That's because you aint looking at the big picture. Aint nothing changed in the struggle between black/white, rich/poor, freedom/slavery, since the first time white people appeared on earth. And aint nothing ever going to change. Why they think they have the right to theirs and everybody else's too, I'll never understand if I live to be a thousand years old. And why so many black and colored people support and mentally give sanity to such evil I will never understand.

We all know that the opposition MDC is funded by White farmers and white money from outside Zimbabwe.. the facts is clear the MDC has grownm bigger and stronger by every contradictory action taken by Mugabe....this only serrves to the day of MDC closer not further away...

Originally Posted by Geoff

ORGNLEGYPTN:.....

Gukurahundi

Authenticity unknown....This is Zimbabwe

Originally Posted by Kunjufu

ORGNLEGYPTN: Sorry but i'm gonna press you on a few points because i believe you are ducking the key questions with double talk aand avoidance...come on now.. whether you like Mugabe or not.. You need to either explain the recent election that never was or be honest and own up to the fact that he has stolen this election.. forget 4 years ago..because i conceed that its debatable who actually won...


You missed my point with that statement Kunjufu. It was clear who won that election.(2004) What I was saying that Mugabe was accused of stealing every election before there was even an election.

If I was anti-Mugabe, I would feel exactly as you do--but I'm not, so why would you expect me to accept your claim that the election was stolen. I don't want the people of Zimbabwe denied their choice, but I don't know who won that election and neither do you, yet.

Until the results are announced I'm going to hold that despite all the hardship they are going through, they still want Mugabe, based on the fact that when Mugabe gives out a call, hundreds of thousands answer with their feet, and the opposition can never get 50 people to show up for their constant calls for strikes and protests.

If over half the people of Zimbabwe really supports them, how come they can never gather any numbers for their strikes? In my mind something don't add up with that. Of course some might say it's because people are afraid, but if they aren't afraid to vote, why would they be afraid to show their support peacefully in the streets like Mugabe supporters do?

To me, that's where the truth is. But I concede you have a point and if the vote really went to the MDC, they should rule without hindrance. It's the only way for a politically divided Nation to avoid bloodshed. I definitely don't want that in Zimbabwe--truly a marvelous Nation of people. [/color]

The fact is 3 [three] weeks ago the people of Zimbabwe voted and that result has yet to be declared, this latest ploy of recounting has no basis in fact or natural law...So come on now don't play people for fool have the good grace to acknowledge what is fairly obvious.


You've never heard of a recount? Think about this...if Mugabe wanted to steal the election why wouldn't he just cheat on the count, or get the courts to declare him the winner--do a Bush? By dragging it out he only hurts himself, which says to me they are really trying to count those votes fairly. As I said before, somebody might have cheated--and there are a dozen ways you can do that today--but it don't automatically means it has to be Mugabe and his party.


Going forward if you want to make an argument why it is ligitimate for Mugabe to deny the will of the people then please do that ok... Now for me there is a ligitimate reason why this is not a free and fair election in that you cannot tell a starving man to make an informed vote with anything other than his stomach.. for that reason I believe the elections are flawed..


We go right back to square one. What is the will of the people? You nor I know why the results is delayed. And again, if Mugabe wanted to steal the election, he sure is doing it in a stupid way.


However where pro Mugabians fall down is the fact that HIS policies contributed to the current mess, and I'm sorry his age is NOt an excuse, his fight against the UK is NOT an excuse? and if he is saving Zimbabwe, my question is saving it from what exactly...? With 1000% inflation the question has to be asked about his stewardship and whether he is the best man for the job.. and surely I'm not going to be told that he at 84 is the ONLY pan Africanist in Zimbabwe..because if this is so his tactics now are flawed badly.


Of course his policies contributed to the current crisis...duh. He gave the land back to the rightful owners, messing with white people's "divine rights" badabooom---crisis

You know I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this particular point because you aren't too dumb to at least entertain the thought that the West is the cause for Zimbabwe's economical woes. They can do the exact same thing to any Country on earth. Hell, China, India and Saudi Arabia can do it to the United States. (btw I was wrong. The U.S., don't have 60% of the world's wealth).

If you are one of those who believes that as long as master feeds me, being denigrated and living like cattle is alright, you have a right to it. Lots of black folks feel like that. If that's the way you want to live I can't tell anybody what to do about their belly and I'm not going to try. People have a right to live and survive the way they want to. The only reason I'm saying anything is because I know most black people are tired of other people controlling their lives, existence and space. Some aren't. Well, so be it. As for what Mugabe is saving them from: a future of slavery and degradation. There is no true wealth but people and land. There is no future without land. Ask me again if there is a better man than Mugabe for Zimbabwe and in fact--all of Africa. If you’re going to depend on the white man--or yellow man or any man other than yourself, to feed you , grow your food and supply your money, what happens on that day when he can’t feed himself. It’s coming. The Egyptians used to feed a starving Europe at one point in history.



And forgive me for point out a glaring omission in your thinking... If its the peoples right to choose, then you have to accept their will, even if you disagree or dislike it... in this case it appears that the people have chosen and that this choice has been denies...

We're back again to square one. The election results hasn't been released.

When this took place in Azania, we advocating armed resistance, why is it different now that the denier appears to be 84 and black as opposed to 8o something and WHITE? and oppressor is still an oppressor non?

All the difference in the world Kunjufu. If you can't see the difference between a man of justice, wanting to give a black man all the benefit of the doubt when he's fighting to give black people back their black land, and a bunch of squatting invaders trying to hold on to their lordship over millions--then you know what..? They say they are going to one day seperate the sheep from the goats. You can go with the goats--I'm going with the sheep. And it's all good.

And with me it's not in one inkling about race resentment, it's about right, justice and freedom. White people deserve to be free too. They deserve a space too. God gave everybody a spot. You think you're going to make me go against somebody--I don't care what color they are, or where they reside--who's fighting in his own spot, for his own spot?

No my brother, Kunjufu. I said in my first post that stability don't come with constantly changing leaders, and it's the truth but that don't mean I don't believe the people shouldn't chose their leaders. But I also know that as long as the greedy and powerful exist "democracy" and constantly changing leaders is going to kill the poor people of the world. A poor Nation can't get any luckier than to find a leader that is for them 100 percent, and hold on to him until he dries up like a mummy.

They didn't write the U.S. constitution, magna Charta or French declaration of independence, so why should they govern their lives by the rhetoric when they know "Democracy" and the constant changing of leaders keeps them weak? If the leader of a poor Nation governs for more than five minutes to the benefit of his people, the West are always going to holla dictator because they know that poor Nations needs strong, lasting leaders to resist Western interference. When they are strong, then they can play the "Democracy" charade. Isn't that how China did it?

Aint nobody going to expect Jesus to risk losing an election to hackers and Al gore‘s money.

Africans, Asians, and Mediterraneans were obsessed with justice, law and human rights for thousands of years already, when Europeans Nations had kings, Lords, and Landowners claiming raping every peasant bride the night before her marriage as their divine right.

They didn't toss out their leaders by the clock and they still had justice, freedom and "human rights .i.e. "democracy""

Contrary to the movies, the West didn't teach the world to value human rights. It taught them that human life was cheap.

If Mr. Mugabe loose the count, sure he should step down but is it really the will of the people to lose their leader because outside forces spent billions of words, ink and money in a campaign against him? Not to mention economical warfare? Isn't that how election are won and lost in the west--money, advertising and economy. So who did Mugabe really run against?
And if it wasn't for all that outside stuff, would he have won by a landslide by the will of his people?

Now you be honest.







Explain to me ORGNLEGYPTN how Mugabe..put into power by the British via the Lancaster agreement, and now ARMED by the Chinese is NOT an agent of colonialist administration?