Tories signed us up to the EU, New Labour continued with its entrenchment.
This has led to open borders, and an influx from poorer member states.
The Polish builder example is only an illustration, as a parellel example South African returns Zimbabeans, its economic not racial.

Who can the man in the street turn to ?
Marginal parties that the shout loudest, any votes cast for them alter mainstream parties policies.

Do you have a daughter? Would you send her to the best tutor in the land if you knew that tutor doubled up as a peadophile? This is precisely the logic you seem to be trying to rationalise.

Its quite simple. The BNP are a NAZI party. Because one chooses to overlook this and vote for them because they believe they will serve their best interests on immigration, doesnt make their actions non-racial. The same way you would be highly guilty of neglect if you did indeed send your daughter to that tutor.

Like others have stated it is the British employers who employing people for below the minimum wage and thus breaking the law. When you are new to a Country you do what you need to do to survive and are thus open to expliotation by employers Blame the British employers for "driving down wages".

Hospitals rely on immigrant labour: nearly a quarter of NHS doctors and half of all NHS nurses were born outside the UK. I have only ever seen Africans and Eastern European working in care homes, with Britain being an ageing population and taking care of the elderly not a concern for British people, can one put a value on this service?

How do they exacerbate the problem? Do they crash the housing market, do they make it harder for first time buyers, and did they force local authorities to first sell off their stock of social housing and then stop building them? I’ll tell you what many of these new arrivals do, they often get together to be able to afford extortionate amount of rent from British landlords only to happy to yet again exploit a great number of them. It has been recently proven that new comers despite press coverage to the contrary do not jump housing lists and gain priority over the British.

The whip hand is a reference to everyone’s favorite immigration expert old Enoch, if a great deal of English do not feel “at home in their own country surely it’s because they feel some “other” has the advantage – the whip hand over them.

The speed of the change? A great deal of migrants are just passing through such changes are not as lasting as you would think – if you think this change is quick be thankful nobody is using a maxium gun to enforce any changes.

Everyone is concerned about international crime and professional criminals such as Simon Mann and Sir Mark Thatcher that can now travel unhindered throughout the world.

Most of the "concerns" are based on incorrect and irrational fear as explained to you earlier in the thread. The government has attempted to alleviate these fears by effectly barring entry to the UK to Africans and Asians who have traditionally come over to do the unglamourous jobs. The whole East Europen phenomenon has allowed those with a racist agenda to speak of immigration and pretend it is not linked with race. It has allowed Sir Andrew Green to make a distiction between "good hard working, will go home East Europeans" and "bad, darker skinned third world immigrants." This in turn has allowed unfounded "concerns" about immigration to have a platform, and created the space for the BNP to gain a seat in the London assembly.

By using houseing stock that is already pressed by wieght of numbers.

Many concerns are irrational, it does not make them any less potent.

The dilemma is just as you state, to be concerned by the Eastern European phenomenon, lumps you amongst the hardline racists, because no other party has the will to say anything.

Geoff: without wishing to get too personal...I wondered how you personally reconcile your feelings on immigration with the fact that you're partner is also an immigrant, isn't it a bit of a contradiction?

Not at all.

I have two illustrations which may show how I think.

You throw a party, everybody is welcome.
But due to being such a popular host all your friends turn up, and they bring their friends, plus a few gatecrashers arrive also.
No one can use the toilets, nobody can dance because of the numbers, the food and drink provided wont satisfy all the guests.

A ship sinks and there are limited spaces in the lifeboats, many people in the surrounding water want to gain a place in your boat. The decision is, do you let everybody into the lifeboat, making it unstable for everybody ? Or do you have strict limits and let only the official number into the boat ?

My wife is the hostess at that party, she was first into the lifeboat beside me.
She agrees with me, whoever turns up to get into the party or the lifeboat gets turned away.

Nice try but come on now Geoff....that was a pitiful analogy..Whilst i accept there is an ISSUE of the huge influx of Eastern Europeans into the UK.. The issue isn't as straight forward as you make it appear... The problem as i see it..that the ENGLISH by that I mean you have this inbread sense of entitlement.. In comes these interlopers and now you have to COMPETE..and the issue as i can see it.. they are OUT competing you lot..

The unfortunate issue is that British for too long have been far too complacent, and have lost the art of competing on a relatively even playing field...non? Because lets be honest its not as if the British cared about their culture or was exactly preserving the damn thing BEFORE the influx.. was it?

Lets look at the high St, before the influx many town centres were dying out BECAUSE..various councils took the money, and allowed developers to build malls, that DESTROYED the BRITISH high st up and down the country...Many British people embraced the Mall without THINKINg and now we're lumbered with lookalike town centres..

Lets also be honest on Education, its not as if succesive government valued teachers or paid them or for the schools did they?.......further its not asif there wasn't a massive trauancy problem prior to the influx...

And lets Talk housing..Now come on we've done this before..but under thatcher we were happy about the RIGHT to BUY...and bought to our hearts content... and those who didn't buy..didn't exactly look after the Estates did they... even now.. new builds that i have seen have been destroyed by WHITE youths and families who treat it like a rubbish tip... and it really does make me laught when people talk about immigrantion because these are the SAME people whom i see day in day out.. throwing rubbish out of their collective cars.. I see dumping household rubbish in green spaces.. and who think nothing of dumping rubbish onto the streets or letting their dogs fould the footpath..

Yes there is a problem with unrestricted wave of immigrantion..but truthfully the ENGLISH have had it too easy for far too long..and maybe this is the kick up the jacksy they need to start loving this place!!!

Do you admit your "potent" irrational concerns are, in fact "fear"? What I'm stating is that to fear the East European migration is a smoke screen for the usual racism about immigration. Any anti-immigrant sentiments will first impact on those with darker hues, in terms of caps and legislation and violent acts. visually the facists will attack the African first, they will not wait and ask if the person can speak polish. The anti East European feelings are creating a culture of fear which makes life much more difficult for all immigrants including your wife. People may fool themselves and suggest they voted for the BNP to keep those East Europeans out, or because "mainsteam" ploticans will not listen or act, but they don't fool me.

My anology could have been better, but you got what I meant.

I like your summing up, wish I had said it.
To be fair the UK has had a steady stream of immigration for centuries, and by and large they have been absorbed and/or accepted, I repeat...absorbed and or accepted not necassarily embraced with open arms.
We have had this conversation before, (about the flag ?) its use echos the same unease about "loving" our country, as if that would mean rejecting the multiculty ideal, or aligning yourself with those extremists.
The very small rise of the BNP reflect genuine fears, and I believe are purely protest votes, from people frustrated by the mainstream parties who are deaf to their concerns.

Geoff you are CONSCIOUSLY missing the point, and i suspect the reason you are doing so is because you either personally feel the same way or being Caucasian prevents you from doing so, maybe both.

Let me explain to you in no uncertain terms. If you vote BNP then you subscribe to racism.

I actually feel insulted that you keep pointing to the reasons why people vote BNP, then conclude "its not racial its economic", as if this nullifies what the party clearly and truly represents. The same way a drug dealer welcomes Cocaine becoming more of social narcotic, the BNP are in the business of winning votes and actively choose to capitalise on recent immigration patterns, thats the whole point is it not? Therefore i could agrue the extra votes they recieve are from their "wolves in sheeps clothing" recruitment campaign, adding strength to their NAZI agenda.

So how in Gods name is this entire process "not racial?".

@ Le Moor, perhaps it is you that is missing my point.
I honestly believe the BNP will never gain power in this country.
Yes ......they are a racist party, that are manipulating the Eastern European immigration situation for their own ends.
I honestly believe the electorate are sophisticated enough to see through that, but are USING the BNP as a means of forcing the mainstream parties to listen to their concerns.
There is a minority that would have the BNP in power tomorrow, but they are a minority.
When the chips are down, and in the event of the BNP gaining real power, their support would be withdrawn. But I cannot see it getting to that stage, because the protest vote has prompted a reaction from the Government already.