Rev. Jeremiah Wright is Right about.... - Page 4

adrianerik · (#76 (**permalink**))

@G - the politics of the early 20th century, where there was a need for a huge federal fist to blunt the forces of many racist 'state' fists, is not the same as the needs, and therefore, politics, of the African-American community today. Only a federal initiative could end segregation in the federal workplace, integrate the armed forces, create federal statutes that prosecuted criminals that the states didn't want to touch. (remember, Al Capone owned Chicago. He was never, ever convicted of the scores of murders and thuggery he committed in Illinois. Al Capone was finally sent to prison...on tax exasion...a federal statute put in effect particularly to blun organized crime).

What...exactly...are the demands of African-Americans today that should be placed on the table before any candidate for any office? Especially a higher level office like the presidency.

The most serious of African-American concerns are urban concerns...where the majority of the 22% chronically poor black americans are located. Any urban agenda (inter-urban transportation, job-training, subsidized day-care--since more than 70% are single mothers, federal work-study and college grants, etc,...any of these will automatically benefit African Americans.

So...call it urban. Join with other urban folks and lay it on the table before anyone running for office.

What then...are these African-American demands.

Other ethnic groups in America, the Jews, the Armenians, usually pressure a president regarding things related to the powers of the presidency, (mostly foreign affairs), the Jews: relations with Israel, the Armenians: recognition of the Armenian massacre by the Turks.

That's fine. Our congressional black caucus usually lobby for the Caribbean and Africa. In September, in D.C., there is a huge weeklong event where the various representatives make themselves available for suggestions.

Beyond that, I think that 45+ million African-Americans represent a diversity much greater than you realize.

adrianerik · (#77 (**permalink**))

Regarding this thing of jumping from party to party...with the goal to engendering 'respect' with either party.

That will work, IF, perhaps you are playing the 'glass half-full against the glass-half empty'.

I want you to think about this...millions of moderate Republicans voted for the Republican candidate in the last two elections. Yet, they were treated like horse manure as BIG BUSINESS, MONOPOLY FARMERS, and the WACKOS OF THE FAR RIGHT determined the agenda of the Republicans for the last 8 years. Actually they have determined the policies of the United States for the last 20 years, counting Ronald Reagan.

Do you really believe that the core platform of the current Republican party would change because some 'cullid' people decided to join them?

When they don't even change their platform for their own people. Their moderates were barely allowed to even speak at their convention.

The Republicans goals are NOT to represent African-American interests...their goal is to pull down any opposition (read: Democratic Party). They will CO-OPT anyone or group to do this. (CO-OPT generally meaning convincing you to use YOUR strength to achieve MY goals).

For this reason, groups like LABOR have also never thrown their support to the Republicans.

LABOR joined the Democratic Party after the Depression because of the party's strong support for unions and the creation of numerous departments designed to protect the jobs and health of workers. (OSHA for one - OCCUPATIONAL HAZARD & HEALTH ADMINISTRATION).

Do you also feel that Labor, also are simplistic and don't understand how the 'game' is played?

A political party plays from the bottom up. Politics is local. Your school board. Your state and local taxes. Your police chief and whether you will have community policing or a Civilian Review Board to judge police actions. Your state judges (most crimes are state crimes). Before suggesting that any group of people cut off their nose to spite their face, one first has to question whether the bottom has fallen out of their party...whether the party policies in their area meets their needs.

The top of the party is icing and maybe an appearance at your college's homecoming.

Shemsi en Tehuti · (#78 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDogon

I must say that I totally disagree with that sentiment. In my experience as an American African, I have met those who were basically "White" in appearance, mixed, etc. but had a much deeper sense of an African community than those who were almost 100% African.

Culture is about what you are taught. Not what you are born with.

I could agree that some light skinned Afrikans and Afrikan-Americans are more "conscious" than those of us more biologically/genealogically Afrikan. I made a thread about that a long time ago as I made that observation while in college where the most active members of my University's Black Action Society or Africana Studies Department were often mixed or light skinned people. I sometimes wonder if they have somewhat of a complex where they feel the need to purvey Afrikan-ness more pronouncedly than other Afrikans given their skin color.

I don't deny that reality, but at the same time, especially on the Afrikan Continent, I can point to countless occurrences over the centuries (and even millenniums) where our people were enslaved by Arab or Indo-European half-breeds (no offense intended) who we thought were "like us". Here in the States, it is often the mixed Euro-African American used to extend the political, social, and economic exploitative controls over our people...and it has been that way perhaps since before the country's advent.

I am not saying mixed persons are in any way less than persons of predominant Afrikan genealogy. No matter what culture they grow up in, you simply cannot expect them to deny half of themselves. Some of them do I would agree, but it would be dangerously pathological for Afrikans to expect them to as we have been burned perhaps irreparably by that notion numerous times.

Shemsi en Tehuti · (#79 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmahogany777

To further add to my thoughts on the political naiveté of Black folks I am reminded of something I read some time ago. Some historian was discussing President Franklin Roosevelt and his relationship with Black leadership. It may have been Roger Wilkins anyway; he was talking about how Roosevelt had agreed to meet with some Black leader of the time at the White House to discuss the Black plight. I believe the leader was A. Phillip Randolph, who was advocating for Blacks to get equal treatment in federal jobs and in the military. The story goes that Roosevelt listened to everything Randolph said and proceeded to say that he agreed with him and thought that the changes in policy and law he was passionately advocating for, needed to happen. Then Roosevelt said now you have to ‘MAKE ME DO IT”. Randolph, confused said what do you mean, Mr. President? You just said you agreed that it was the right thing to do. Roosevelt said I do agree with you, but you have to understand the way politics works. Things don’t just get done because it’s the right thing or even because a politician PERSONALLY feels they should be done. You and your constituency have to do certain things on the outside to force my hand and make me do what you want me to do, otherwise I won’t do it.

What Roosevelt was trying to hip Randolph or whichever Negro leader it was to is the way politics in America works. He was telling him that hey I’m all for you and your agenda but I’m not going to put my head on the chopping block or risk my political fortunes doing something for you and your group without some compelling reason to do so, and some reasonable chance of being successful. The only way that happens is PRESSURE and DEMAND. Not only that, with out a certain amount of groundswell of pressure and agitation and leverage from the outside, it wouldn’t work ANYWAY.

Politicians are about self preservation first and foremost. ALL of them are, not SOME of them. They can like your or love you to pieces, doesn’t mean they are going to do sh*t for you, particularly if the something is unpopular or if there are other folks are lobbying them just as hard NOT to do what you want them to do, which is always the case with our agenda. So this little mealy mouthed, “we can’t ask for anything” stance Negroes insist on maintaining is not only stupid and lacking in self respect, it’s not even remotely the way anyone else in the whole friggin country gets anything done or expects anyone else to get anything done,lol.

Read President’s Johnson’s writings on how he got all of the Civil Rights legislation passed in the 60’s. He explicitly says that one of the MAIN things that convinced him (and the people he needed to convince), that he needed to push that legislation through Congress was the WATTS RIOTS of 65. Those riots helped make the case for him to do what he felt was the right thing to do because it was not in American’s best interest to have its major cities on fire, day in and day out and have civil unrest and have that broadcast around the world, on a nightly basis……

BTW, Randolph eventually conceived of the first concept of a March on Washington and started organizing thousands of Blacks to come shut down DC, in 1941 way before the King led 1963 march that came from Randolph’s idea. . The 1941 March never happened because Roosevelt granted the demands of Randolph and company. Apparently, Randolph got Roosevelt’s message loud and clear.

You are so right there. I would like to add though that Afrikans in America first need to make demands on ourselves as well. I was utterly repulsed listening to Tavis Smiley and Tom Joyner on the radio over the last year or so put questions out their to Presidential candidates of watcha gon' do 'bout jobs fo' Blacks. We have developed such a dependence on Europeans for our existence that we never seem to entertain the notion of creating our own economic means for prosperity. We have all the talented people any developed nation would need but have no self-respect and dignity to use it to elevate ourselves first to be able to make demands and apply pressure to the Government ruling over us.

I think Randolph only got part of the message in thinking demonstrations are the way to go. One little-known Afrikan fact people probably don't know is we have been constructing "demonstrations" since the 1870's. The first I know about is that of Sojourner Truth who ironically boycotted the mass transit system of Washington D.C. in the 1870's as they were forcing Afrikans to ride on the outside back of the horse-drawn coaches. Her efforts ended this injustice. Some 90 or so years later, we have clinically insane Afrikans doing it all over again instead of making their own bus system or begging to be accepted by Europeans.

Gmahogany777 · (#80 (**permalink**))

@Adrian,

You misunderstood my point. I'm not saying that it didn't make sense for AA's to overwhelmingly vote for Dems from 1932 on, just like it made sense for us to vote for Republicans(the party of Lincoln), before that. I'm saying that within the Dem party the differences among candidates are miniscule, and we don't even exercise leverage within that party. We don't exercise leverage and accountability in cities where we are 70 and 80% of the population and the Mayor is Black. I'm talking about a general mindset and therefore behavior. I've never advocated that AA's should vote Republican just to prove a point. One always has to calculate pros/cons risks vs gain and what one can live with. There are not always as many differences between even the Dem and Rep candidates as we are sometimes lead to believe. My main point was that since we are somewhat hamstrung by the fact that we can't vote Republican, the LEAST we could do is maximize our leverage and accountability among Dems. Just like you and I know that we aren't going to vote Republican, DEMOCRATIC candidates know this too, and that's why they routinely DISRESPECT AND TAKE US FOR GRANTED. The whites ones AND the Black ones.....It's not wise to ever let a mofo think they know for sure what you will or won't do, they will invariably punk you with impugnity,lol

I don't disagree with your assessment of our diversity and of us not all having the same interests. But you know that cuts both ways. Folks wanna use that logic when it benefits them, but dismiss it when it doesn't. Since we all don't have the same interests as Black folks, then there is no reason for us to ALL vote for the Black candidate, just because he is Black. I don't live in an urban environment, I don't receive welfare, and I have never been in the criminal justice system, so why should I care that Republicans tend to be harder on those issues than Dems?Plenty of AA's vote certain ways on those issues not out of any personal concern, but more out of a general group, goodwill concern, so be careful about touting how little we have in common and how there is no longer a Black agenda. Cause folks may start to take you at your word and vote for McCain, like I plan to,lol.

adrianerik · (#81 (**permalink**))

Ahhh, sister...DIVERSITY does not equal DISUNITY, nor imply disunity. It was simply brought up to show that while we may be a virtual 'collective' in (some) of our actions...we are not a manipulated 'herd'.

Most African-Americans, of varying colors and income levels, still proudly identify with being African-American (despite some public attempts by SOME members of the bi-racial movement to attack nearly every aspect of African-American gains and join forces with the devil to do this).

It is not a solid united front. Of course. There are many African-Americans who are in full favor of subsidized private urban schools and support the Republicans in this issue.

Richard Nixon appealed to LAW AND ORDER during the riots and surprisingly, pulled 25% of the black vote.

We need to realize that this unity thing is not 'of the blood'. We need to teach it. We don't the types of institutions that stronger ethnic groups have that socialize their children into their societies.

It remains to be seen whether we ever will. If not, we will simply move aside and become a cultural anthropological footnote.

TheDogon · (#82 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shemsi en Tehuti

I could agree that some light skinned Afrikans and Afrikan-Americans are more "conscious" than those of us more biologically/genealogically Afrikan. I made a thread about that a long time ago as I made that observation while in college where the most active members of my University's Black Action Society or Africana Studies Department were often mixed or light skinned people. I sometimes wonder if they have somewhat of a complex where they feel the need to purvey Afrikan-ness more pronouncedly than other Afrikans given their skin color.

I don't deny that reality, but at the same time, especially on the Afrikan Continent, I can point to countless occurrences over the centuries (and even millenniums) where our people were enslaved by Arab or Indo-European half-breeds (no offense intended) who we thought were "like us". Here in the States, it is often the mixed Euro-African American used to extend the political, social, and economic exploitative controls over our people...and it has been that way perhaps since before the country's advent.

I am not saying mixed persons are in any way less than persons of predominant Afrikan genealogy. No matter what culture they grow up in, you simply cannot expect them to deny half of themselves. Some of them do I would agree, but it would be dangerously pathological for Afrikans to expect them to as we have been burned perhaps irreparably by that notion numerous times.

Understood, my brotha. Peace.