Mandela Birthday Concert Is A Whitewash - Page 3

Backatya · (#51 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Moor

How about thats the interpretation you choose to draw from. I answered the question directly in the English it was written in. If Backatya had double meaning to his words then perhaps he should have said what he meant..

There was no double meaning in my words. However, I wasn't really expecting an 'answer' as such because anyone who deems to pose the question KNOWS the answer implicitly.

What I will say is that I was someone who honored that man as I was growing up and well into my adulthood, until one day I had the great honour of speaking to certain fellow-Africans who know....and I mean KNOW.....the truth about his 27 years 'captivity' and the 'work' he was assigned to do following. It was one of the most painful lessons (realisations) of my life, but everything I have seen since confirms what I now know to be his true legacy.

But I am not here to argue or debate the 'greatness' of Mandela. Each man is entitled to his own view on that score. Just to say, I did not arrive at mine lightly.

Respect

Incognito · (#52 (**permalink**))

Backatya - too cheap mate. You can't be coming with this I know something you don't know which for all we know is more sellouts selling out. It's down to you and anyone else to enlighten us instead of dragging out post after post off irrelevance for no other reason than you unwilling to play your trump card - unless of course you yourself really don't believe it, or can at best put it down as speculation and use it to join the dots you want to see.

As far as I see it Mandela had two choices, the one he took or martyrdom. If taking the former makes him a sellout then so be it but he's no more a sellout than me and you with our 9-5's and our mortgages sending our children to babylon's school.

If Mandela is a sellout we all are rendering the finger pointing exercise pointless. Simple.

Le Moor · (#53 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backatya

There was no double meaning in my words. However, I wasn't really expecting an 'answer' as such because anyone who deems to pose the question KNOWS the answer implicitly.

What I will say is that I was someone who honored that man as I was growing up and well into my adulthood, until one day I had the great honour of speaking to certain fellow-Africans who know....and I mean KNOW.....the truth about his 27 years 'captivity' and the 'work' he was assigned to do following. It was one of the most painful lessons (realisations) of my life, but everything I have seen since confirms what I now know to be his true legacy.

But I am not here to argue or debate the 'greatness' of Mandela. Each man is entitled to his own view on that score. Just to say, I did not arrive at mine lightly.

Respect

The truth....lol.... Backatya i havent forgotten your claim in a past debate about Mandela and his time spent in prison was like a holiday camp.......

These people you mentioned, were they on Robben Island as prisoners, because you see i would like to explore your claim that THEY really knew. As it happens ive actually driven a fellow prisoner, activist and friend of Mandelas, who's now an actor, to his hotel and then had the pleasure of joining him and the SA high commisioner in their VIP lounge. Not one to name drop but seeing as you went there. More to the point do you think i spent my time talking about the weather to John Kani.

Ive been thinking recently that all great men and leaders of the past have, had fierce critics, defectors and slanderous allegations against them, so i cant really expect Mandela to be unique here.

Le Moor · (#54 (**permalink**))

The truth....lol.... Backatya i havent forgotten your claim in a past debate about Mandela and his time spent in prison was like a holiday camp.......

These people you mentioned, were they on Robben Island as prisoners, because you see i would like to explore your claim that THEY really knew. As it happens ive actually driven with a fellow prisoner, activist and friend of Mandelas, who's now an actor, to his hotel and then had the pleasure of joining him and the SA high commisioner in their VIP lounge. Not one to name drop but seeing as you went there. More to the point do you think i spent my time talking about the weather to John Kani.

Ive been thinking recently that ALL great men and leaders of the past have had fierce critics, defectors and slanderous allegations against them, so i cant really expect Mandela to be unique here.

Backatya · (#55 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Moor

The truth....lol.... Backatya i havent forgotten your claim in a past debate about Mandela and his time spent in prison was like a holiday camp....... .

Le Moor, is that what I actually said? I referred to it as being like a holiday camp?
Don't you think it is a bit disingenuous to say that if they were not my actual words?
Making flippant remarks about serious comments made by another in such a way is not only a weak and feeble way to make your argument stronger, but is downright dishonest.

Look bro....I am not here to convince you, or anyone else that their ('High Esteem') view of Mandela is flawed and should be changed. Or to get you around to my way of thinking. Not only would that be futile but it would entail me relaying a whole heap of stuff on here I do not wish to go into on a public forum. I simply expressed MY view of how I view the man.......Or am I not permitted to that?

You don't have to agree or even like it. The fact that you let it offend your sensibilities so, without having any idea what motivates me to hold such an opinion shows a weakness of character on your part.......ACCEPT THAT SOMEONE MAY HOLD A DIFFERENT VIEW OF A THING TO YOURSELF! I certainly accept that you (and countless others no doubt) do not share my views on Mandela and I have no problem with that.

Mandala's position in people's esteem is hardly likely to suffer simply because Backatya sees it differently. Don't sweat it!

Respect

Backatya · (#56 (**permalink**))

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incognito

Backatya - too cheap mate. You can't be coming with this I know something you don't know which for all we know is more sellouts selling out. It's down to you and anyone else to enlighten us instead of dragging out post after post off irrelevance for no other reason than you unwilling to play your trump card - unless of course you yourself really don't believe it, or can at best put it down as speculation and use it to join the dots you want to see.

As far as I see it Mandela had two choices, the one he took or martyrdom. If taking the former makes him a sellout then so be it but he's no more a sellout than me and you with our 9-5's and our mortgages sending our children to babylon's school.

If Mandela is a sellout we all are rendering the finger pointing exercise pointless. Simple.

Incognito
Read my words. I have not called anyone a 'sellout'. I have simply given MY opinion on the man...though I have not gone into infinite detail as to how I got to hold such an opinion, and neither do I intend to. I see things different to you is all...................It happens!

Respect

Incognito · (#57 (**permalink**))

Backatya - not mentioning the word sellout is simply you trying to be diplomatic. I'd be more interested in what it is you know that once exposed would send Mandela and his league of followers to their graves.

Kunjufu has this way of disassociating Mandela from the ANC. Mandela sold arms not the ANC it was Mandela's party not the ANC, some would say it has to be this way to label Mandela a sellout, nothing else would add up. When do the ANC take any responsibility or could it be they simply scapegoat and even sellout Mandela the same way the West do?

Incognito · (#58 (**permalink**))

Backatya - but yeah for real, with such info you're best keeping it to youreself as you may find you're the next victim of sellouts. Indeed you shouldn't have even mentioned it at all but the urge to act as the moderater calvary was just too much for you wasn't it.

Can I ask you wif you believe the ANC are culpable for anything, anythingthing at all, ok anything apart from not turning up to Hyde Park?

Backatya · (#59 (**permalink**))

'Backatya - not mentioning the word sellout is simply you trying to be diplomatic'.

Incognito, how about this? Not mentioning the word 'sellout' is simply me NOT mentioning the word sellout.......BECAUSE?.....it is not the word that comes to mind for me in respect of my thoughts on the subject of Mandela. Sometimes you doth assume too much about other people's thoughts and motivations. Of course you could always have asked "Why didn't you use the word sellout"........Nah, that's far too logical.

'I'd be more interested in what it is you know that once exposed would send Mandela and his league of followers to their graves'.

Who said anything about 'sending Mandela and his league of followers to their graves? Don't get over dramatic now, you are quite capable of reading EXACTLY what I said.
And given you are quite capable of reading, you would know I didn't talk about 'EXPOSING' anything. I made it clear I have reasons for holding the opinion I do and have no intention of going into them here......I am not trying to convince anyone of anything or trying to change anyone's mind......simply giving MY view is all. Forgive me if you feel I should be justify that view to you or seek your acceptance of the mode by which I arrived at it.
Your interest is neither here or there to me. After all, I am not interested in what leads you to the opinion you have of Mandela. I can quite accept that it is different to mine without feeling any way about it.....you should be able to accept mine likewise.

Kunjufu has this way of disassociating Mandela from the ANC. Mandela sold arms not the ANC it was Mandela's party not the ANC, some would say it has to be this way to label Mandela a sellout, nothing else would add up. When do the ANC take any responsibility or could it be they simply scapegoat and even sellout Mandela the same way the West do?

So? And what has all of that got to do with me expressing the opinion I did?

Respect

Bea · (#60 (**permalink**))

“The most dangerous of all dependencies is to depend on your wealthy oppressor to free you and share wealth with you, because wealthy people never train (their own) poor people to take wealth away from them.”

John Henrik Clarke (adapted by Bea)

We must remember this as it will instil the importance of our being self reliant & independent and therefore doing things on our own terms and in our own interests.

babygirl44 · (#61 (**permalink**))

Mandela dashed out Naomi and kept Amy for monetary reasons its as simple as that. Naomi is becoming a liability and his advisors would have told him she was taking his good name a mek puppet show. He probably hasn't even heard of Amy Crackhouse. Even though she's on the telly here all the time over here, I'm sure Mandela hasn't a clue who she is. however, his advisors would have told him that it would be good to have her as it would boost ticket sales for the charity as well as secure a bigger tv audience and national/international newspaper coverage. Naomi was more easily expendable. Trust if Amy wasn't as controversial or big as she is and din't have the ability to generate as much cash as she does, she wouldn't have been there either. 50% of the tv audience probably couldn't give a fig it was his birthday, they just wanted to see if Crackhouse would embarass herself and collapse and die on stage half way through 'rehab'.

Incognito · (#62 (**permalink**))

Backatya - cool, just checking.