We all seem to be assuming that the MAN does not want the baby and the WOMAN does. That the man will be pushing for an abortion against HER wishes...

It's not always the case.

Sometimes HE wants to be a dad, looks forward to it and is excited about it only to hear that his child is about to be aborted and he has absolutely no say.

Its a far deeper issue that we are making out... hence Mansamusa's point about the woman having ultimate control over the life of the child. Think how that applies in my scenario.


I AM actuallyon neither side, I think each situation is different. Difficult to apply a rule. It is a far deeper topic and not so clear cut as some of you think it is. There are too many angles to think about for a person to take a stern and unmoving stance...

@Iyallah my view is very simple and consistent a man having sex with more than one woman is a fool to himself. But let me make a qualificatiion which I did not do at the time because I was tired and rushing.. First as I said my brother was actually using contraception for the best part, as accoring to my sources(younger sister this was going on for about a year) and I don't think much was going on with his woman because she is a head case and my brother is known to just leave her for months on end because she frankly just pissess him off. Futhermore I know you want to strike a blow for female parity but you need to do so on facts.

Do you know something I do not know or did not say. How do you know my brother was not using condoms with his steady woman. Who the way could not take the pill? Her family have something in their medical history so she does not use the pill and finds other things to messy and complicated. I use condoms with my long term women/partners because I do not trust what is in those pills? So who is jumping to conclusions me or you?. LOGICAL INCONSISTENCY AT BARE MINIMAL I WOULD SUGGEST OR JUMPING THE GUN.....confused3. Laurel Hill was sexinig two men unprotected to the extent they did not know who the father was until the child was born according to that long article I read. So sorry come again.confused3. That is called NASTY AND LET ME REPEAT IT NASTY....

But here is the fundamental differnce as my mother put it and she is right. |If a woman persues a man and she already has a child in particular with no father as this girl is into pretty looking men and breeding for them. No real relationship. A man is looking sex not children and that is the FUNDAMENTALDIFFERENCE. While they can play With their own health but only the woman is brining another life into this world. HER RESPONSIBLITY IS GREATER SO IS IT TO HER EXISTING CHILD BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS IF SHE CATCHES SOMETHING SERIOUS AND WANTS TO GET PREGNANT ON TOP OF THAT AGAIN?.Her responsiblity is greater and why she has the right of choice. Thoseschools full of black boys born to fail are the products of women's choices. Read Professor Julius Wilson in the US you will tremble when you read the stats absolutelyhorrendous aboutthe life chances of the average black boy or girl. Inevery category of risk they are there big time and leading the pack. That isthe consequence of the free choices of black women not men.Men as my mum sayswant sex,what happens afterwards is a woman's choice on way or another and and this is whatthis is about.A woman who exposes herself to disease and is a mother is more wotlesssthanany man.



Do you think my mother would put equal blame on a man than her daughers.She would rip their heads off not the man, because they were brought up to know if you give it away willy nilly etc to any fool what would happen. I think you should study Caribbean or African culture and see how and why people look on these things you may apprecaite this westsern oh the man is equally to blame does not cut it.

My sisters would not accept that argument. They have to protect their stature and virtue and repuatation it belongs to them not any man. Hence they come in the front door not via the back in shame with cloud of rumour. That is culture my sister and come and evolves for damn good reason. Not complicated at all which is why none of them ever found themselves in that positions. Regretably and don't tell me you do not know that it does not apply to men the same way. Men do not give birth. Simple as..

The man has no interest in having children just sex if it on offer which she was persuing him for years to give him andmany men will take it. But then want to get herself pregnant again with no father. That woman has no respect for herself or her child period. Again the man is looking for sex which she is offering. Men do not give brith to children last time we checked and theman will not be there b**ching and complaining the woman will. Most decent mothers teach there daughters that. NOt complicated in my view.

By the way there is a massive arfticle on a thread about Larryn Hill.

You see the issue is this as I have said million times most men have no diffiulties or ever had telling a man he is a fool or has acted like an arse. It does not work the other way round. My family wefre mad at my brother but that girls family well. All of them are baby mothers for non existent father's so what is the problemconfused3. l What is worse they are all very bueatiful and intelligent sounding girls but something is deficient in them. They just meet men and want to breed.

Hence one of the reasons I personally would not mess with that type of woman. Simply opening your eyes will tell you what their norms are. Common sense really.

You are a mother conduct yourself with some type of self respect, because as my father said you show how you will relate to any child you will have for me by how you relate to those you already have. And my girl did not givea damn. In there mad excitement there existing chidlren can go to hell.

FB

@Iyallah. My brother is much moreindecisve than me in many things. My brother is used to woman chasing him.The woman he was with quite frankly that relationship should have been killed off. So it was one of those up and down stupidness with nobody being strong enough to done it. So my girl was always hovering and I mean for years. He is stunnly good looking and the woman is into looks like nothing. she is into image of men loolks and all that is more important to her. So he was the prize between two women basically.

It was drama from the begging to the end. So she probably vex him as my girl loved a public drama and sex between him and that woman took place. I knew nothing as I would have kicked up merry hell. His woman was a bueatiful but crasy woman so on that tip alone I would have told him to mash that thing because shit would break out.

Oh by the way the girlfriend aint leaving him for nothing but will chop up that woman like mince meat them kinda crazy woman business. These are women who are very superficial and the fact they have a man that other women wants is good enough for them.

@Ruben. My family don't mess where children and stuff are invovled and they will have no baby mother think they can boss our family around. As I said my grandmothers on both side were very very formidable women when their family reputation and public face is concerned and my father's mother in particular. We are big institution so nobody is coming to **** with us and no little girl especially. Family reputation is key.

My mother would yam that woman whole and spit her out. Because if none of her daughters have to force pregnancy on men how the hell do you think she is going to treat those type of women. They will run. My father comes from big established families and my mother humble background by comparisons but my mother never allow that to compromise her upbringing or go spreading her legs here and there to make big shot family children to think her family are cheap and never raised her right because of money or land etc. She is very proud of that no man money or stature can buy her.

What I see in this country is this. Many famiilies here are in mess and weak and have little deep traditions etc. So they will accept white people and baby mother nonsense. My folks will not tolerate it in any shape or form. I have about 12 or so first cousins all big people and the youngest is two years my junior not one of them are baby mothers. All married. So those kind of women are a threat to our womens' status and they work damn hard for their rank in life to think all you can do is meet one of their men in a club and open your legs and bam you are in the family. Girl forget it. They will cuss the men and say men are men. But they will set for that woman like an enemy.

I had a friend from Barbados and the way his mother treated his baby mother was painful to watch. Almost contempt. Open contempt and in front of her son and he said nothing.Sheis not his wife orhis intended to cross his mother for. You see how our people look on it is this. If you are a wise woman and choose a decent man and you have a proper relationship and pregnancy happens. No problem you will marry in due course if only for your child's sake and its postion in society and normal expectations and its inheritience and its famililar rights. But the kind of women we are talking about nobody is marrying them brother. So hence nobody is rushing to acccept them in their family.



FBconfused3

@DM said"


"I AM actuallyon neither side, I think each situation is different. Difficult to apply a rule. It is a far deeper topic and not so clear cut as some of you think it is. There are too many angles to think about for a person to take a stern and unmoving stance..."


That is the difference between being an intellectual or academic and a policy maker. I have done both professsionally. You cannot have a policy based on a thousand and one different scenarios because that is not policy and no policy can ever be based on that.

Acadecmics may love it because finding every nuance or qualiifications or exception is what they do. NOt what policy makers do and that is why all policy by its intrinsic nature is eitehr OVER INCLUSIVE OR UNDER INCLUSIVE and no way you can get around that. Like designing a tax system that makes everybody happy. Try it it is impossblel and why academics write books not run countires.

fBconfused3

@Iyallah said"What is your view if the woman wasnt scheming but got pregnant??

I don't believe you can explain the rates of single pregnancies as scheming. In almost every country on the planet women from pygmie bush women to Eskiomo women take responsiblity for their reproduction except black women and poor white trash.....So work it out for yourself. It is not that they buy faulty contraception because that is grounds for a legal class action petition on the grounds of discrimination to start at least.

Nobody is going to tell me the consistent rise in these occurances is due to mistakes or accidents unless again people want to offend our intelligence and mine in particular. Mistake would be statistcally negligble and across all communities not simply black women.

So as my wife said most black women don't give a rass one way or another. An almost cavallier attitude and the welfare state is a major factor in that and we would have to be an fool to not know that. If women in this country had to bear the whole brunt with no subsidies whatsoever, particularly in housing or there was not one incentive black women would regulate their behaviour and not be having this discussion because there would be no benefit to be had and it would mean real suffering.

So the women who would fit into your category would be very very small and those who would be genuine accidents and that statistic would be more or less the same for every nation of women who engage in sex around the same age categories as ours unless we have some scientific data to suggest black men's sperm is more likely to make a woman conceive.

My view on that comes from my basic upbrining because our culture in my view is far superior in handling these things than this madness which is putting the reputation of ablack women into the gutter in the eyes of women, because as my wife said if black women think they can fool the world most women know how to take care of their biz. She is married and the way white women and those of other natiiionalties talk to a married black woman about those who are not would make most women feel ashamed.

They see them as cheap with no self respect or respect for thier kids. As she says they can cuss and blame men all they like but they are not fooling grown mature women who know how to take care of their shit. If they can do it in Lapland it is not in the Uk they can't do it.

If you choose good men to sleep with who genuinely care for you and you treat the man properly all things being equal what do you have to worry about as a woman if you accidentally get preganant. The man will do the right thing whatever that is. But I can tell you this sister. If I draw a web analysis chart strating from me and my wife and work outwards and all those who are single parents and how they got preganant. Them women did not give a rass about anything. As my wife said if as soon as they are pregnant the relationship was dead what does that say....

Two women academicsfrom Jamaica McCormack andDraperanswered this question why black women get pregant so easily. Lack of basic self esteem and it is the easiest way to woman hood and status and peer acceptance eg being a member of the gang.. So they have a concrete motive to do so.

Men do not. Women get housed we do not. As my cousin says when you marry it is all about the woman she comes in the Rolls Royce and the man can come on a donkey or bicycle as long as he is there nobody gives a damn. It is all about the woman. Same principle.

FB.

I'm definitly pro choice regardless to what, it still up to the woman to decide whats best for her. You should listen and respect how the dude feels and his position in life because i see alot of women have kids and they nor the man are ready for a child and he wants her to have abortion. In that case why keep it if your no where near ready? If the man does want you to keep it and you not ready, let him know why your not ready and he must respect it and can not force you to do anything.

Pro life people are out of their minds and are not living in the real world. You will notice that although there are many male identified women in the movement but most pro-life people are men.

@Iyallah just remembered......Oops the point has been made.....





FB

Fred...

Am neither a policy maker or a politician... just a man who has had direct experience of both sides of the coin... Went differently each time, with different consequences and repercussions.