Ok so I'm in the car with Mrs Kunjufu yesterdayand the discussion turns to a mutual friend, their son just a year younger than my eldest daughter has spent the best part of the last three years in and out of prison..

He comes from two hardworking parents, both raised not to want for anything, he is not a rude boy everytime i've seen him he is respectful and always polite.. Even when in the company of his cohorts. He was raised in the burbs and not on an estate (not making any inferences here btw).. So we where at a bit of lost why a boy raised this way would be involved in the most stereotypical crimes ie street robberies and guns.. It is also not a fact that he is illiterate or stupid either, although this boy is no Einstein he is not stupid..

Ms Kunjufu Opined that he was just bad, greedy and lazy, She cited that their is more opportunities today than back in the day and that there is no excuse..my view however was that this is NOT just about money and i don't believe that he did what he did just because he was greedy... Arguement really buss out when I tried to make the point that in fact it is much harder to be young TODAY than it was when we were growing up...

I cited the fact that although people wanted nice things, there simply wasn't the pressure to have specific expensive name brands, if we went out we took bus or worse still walked and everyone was in the same boat.. Now the walkers would in the minority and most would be turning up in flash cars, leased or otherwise..

I also pointed out that back in the day there wasn't, what seems to me today, the 24 hour visual pressure from radio, TV, flims and peers to be a certain way..yes there were fashions, trends and fads.. but they were street influenced not media contrived as it appears to me today..

But far worse it appears is the youth culture, (not BLACK cultures so lets not get it twisted), that rebels against the value of education and its benefits.. We seemed to have people wanting to be intant success or superstars....

However all this does not explain why a boy from a seemly two parent family would be constantly involved in the worse type of crime, that has imo ruined for life... There is no realistic way he can ever gain any meaningful without state assistance..

What are your thoughts to this K Vs K debate?

Contraversial:Both parents were working. Simple as.= Not there for HIM.

Athaba: Ok but how does that equal to a child going bad.....most parents i know work, in the 21st century one would have to unless blessed with wealth..

Each situation is different and an asessment needs to done, but i believe the answer lies in one of Three reasons.

The first being bad parenting the 2nd being as your wifey stated, they were just born that way.

The third being negative influences

What you find with some rich spoilt children for eg is that their parents love them with money and nannies but dont get the rappore with their kids that they crave. The results somewhere down the line are dysfunctional behaviours or deep emotional issues which effect their marriages, home lives, careers etc.I would hazard a guess Kunjufu that if you look at this kid you mentioned somewhere down the line that link with the parents was probably over looked, not conquered somewhat. Or maybe he was never shown how to share and respect others properly.

It is easier nowadays for the kids to get it wrong as the sort of influence, and dicipline needed is minimal from their teachers, the system is too forgiving generally, and parenting skills are in decline. So if they cant learn from school, at home or within the system where are they to learn from.

The 2nd way i mentioned is some kids are just born bad. Look at the those two kids who killed Jamie Bulger. There's no explanation there, they were just born bad imo. You do get them.

The third way could just be the kid has fallen into bad company and is easily lead. Again it happens and some kids are good at hidding their problems, so no amount of parenting can tell what they're going through.

It's like the sibling dating a grey, for the most part ther's one in every family. As my friends mum put it, 'got five kids and if one turns out bad that's acceptable'.

Too right about changing times. My eldest asked me the other day if he can go on a train. Dawned on me how much he gets driven everywhere he goes to the degree a train jorney feels like a novelty. Sad. Ran this past a sister friend of mine who checked out the same thing and said it'sa wonder how our children even learn how to cross the road.

the child was looking for attention partly

The child is normal. straight A black kids are foreign now adays

I think schools are too blame. They encourage sexual behaviour

I see it, just cant prove it

which i could be a fly on the wall in an all white staff room, in a black dominated school.

parents fault second.

kids should go to work from 11 years old,there big,strong and able. that way they can earn money for there so called bling and fashionable garms.

offtopic.gifAbolish secondary schools, colleges and universitys , i say , bloody waste of time!

I go uni and i cant even bloomin right!confused2 but i NEED this piece of paper to tell my employer im capable. kiss me teet.

There doesn't have to be a reason......other than some people do what they want to do.
If you try your best....that is all any parent can do.....the child chooses their own path.
My own brother who was a little wayward....nothing out of hand....but not acceptable to our parents at the time.....We were all brought up with the same regime....same ideals....same regulations....same Mum same Dad....he tended to be out spoken....outlandish...a bit of a rebel.
Later on after the demise of both parents.....all 5 brothers ....and sister....discuss our upbringing......and how it affected us
The one wayward son feels agrieved....only him....every other brother sees it roughly in the same way......parents with human faults doing their best....just like you ....and me.
We talk about specific incidence.....only he has his own particular offbeat slant.

Your friends son knows how he should behave.....he has the grounding....he just chooses ....at this time...to be doing what he is doing.
He might come around....he might not.....the parents should worry about him....but they shouldn't beat themselves up......
He is an individual......