These words were unheard of where I am from to come from the mouth of an uncle when I was growing up, and especially 40 years ago. Whatis the state of the African family today with all this "integration" with Whites? I'm not just talking about your immediate family, because we all know that the African family was inclusive of1st, 2nd, and somtimes even 3rd cousins, church members, neighbors, friends of the family, and sometimes even coworkers. What happened...what's going on...and where are we headed?

The Afrikan family has decline rapidly in the last 50yrs, which corresponds with integration without equality and the subsequent loss of us being self-determining and self-reliant.

The reason are social, political, economical, spiritual, educational, psychologicalthe list goes on.

We have to be clear about the cause of the problem before we can apply an effective solution. The functional male and female raising Afrikan children is becoming obsolete. We are seeing the affects of this in our communities. The family is a socialising machine and the basic component of any community, both of which has disintegrated, particularly in the diaspora. The role of Afrikan men and women is being shaped by non-Afrikan forces and thus is ultimately destroying us. As Oba T'Shaka states 'it's a choice between two cultures'.

We need to begin to understand the world we live in and the complexities of what we face. We need to undestand what we mean by man, women, mother, father, family, relationships, child-rearing and community etc and how the significant impact they have on our existence, because our definitions of these are so varied we have a myriad responses.

We need have expectations and standards, we need to be more critical, particularly of ourselves,and not accept the unexceptable, which can be defined as anything inconsistent with the agreed definitions. We need to have discipline and we must take greater care when we decide to form relationships and create children. We need to decide what we want and develop a plan toget there, we all should have concern about our community and to make decisions that better our communities as well as ourselves.

We need to think more, think before we make decisons, think about the consequences, think long term, think holistically.

Auset - I share your opinion on confusion. Think all this integration has led to mass confusion where cultures have collided and therefore become blurred. Talk to the average African about African children being born in wed lock and integration means they'll confuse this western legitimacy.

For me, illegitimate (*******) children are those where the father is not recognised by the Queen of England (English law) which is completely different to the African cultural virtue/concept of wed locked children.

I've had many arguments with many brothas and sistas regarding marriage and wed lock and it's amazing how many defend themselves from a Queen of England, white wedding or romance perspective.....many so called African militants as well.

Again for me, marriage and wed lock are examples of expressions of cultural respect. Lose that respect and the collective family disappears with it. In this day and age, whatever your definition, just make sure the other half shares the same reference model.

Incognito wrote:
I may already know, but please share what you know of the differences between African wedlock and that conventional in England (or the West).

Shemsi - there are similarities i.e. children are a product of marriage so fundamentally the point being made is concepts and where you draw your conceptual reference from.

In my years of observation, what I've found more difficult to find is a traditional African term for a ******* child - difficult to find because such a concept did not exist maybe?

check these definitions out...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegitimacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/*******...d_and_Wales%29

Check out Sudan in this link

http://www.africaguide.com/culture/weddings.htm

Speaking to some elders..as you do...and it's obvious that the traditional family has changed to individualism..and that's individualism even within family. To me nothing is more precious than that family unit so if you find you think the same but are in relationships with people who call themselves independant then be careful. Legal rights to protect that independance means more to them than anything.

Marriage to me epitomises that unity called family where all are one. Even in my case, I'm as individual as can be but when it came to wife and children I made sure that the wife frst had the rights to that title and anything that involved the children had contribution from both parents.

For example buying the 'family' home, I could have stuck to my guns and stayed with buying one just for me. May have taken a bit longer but I would have done it...especially to maintain my independance...but the family unit was more important. Remember when house hunting and after rejecting untold went to see one in Wood Green, liked it and asked the wife to go and see and hopefully agree. I tell you what, after seeing some of the stuff on the market it's amazing what begins to look like Buckingham Palace

Again even buying furniture, I could have bought it all to maintain my independence, (even if it meant putting it on plastic) but I made sure the wife bought stuff as well. The bathroom was a classic example where I bought a steel bath...them cheap and nasty plastic stuff they sell these days in B&Q just aint me but then I made sure the wife chose the sink and the toilet..even more so knowing that she would nt initiate anything.....just that image of that family unit making progress as one is what the dream was all about...progress all the way....back to Africa....but I guess it never really was.

Saying that, the wife always had cheap and cheerful taste.....to the degree even house hunting she would have gladly lived in all the ones I rejected. I'm more state of the art and truly believe cheap costs you twice in the long run...in the end, she did LOL....in lost time anyway. Can't have no legal (babylon) rights on me...even if it means going on the dole. I'll rather try my luck living/squatting off women than be chained by the grey like a slave.

Many people simply see change as something to keep up with, grey Britain is a classic for this. t's funny how you hear them talk about statistics about single parent homes and the amount of 25-35 year old men living alone - they try to make out that this is some kind of new lifestyle choice but when it's black people we're in some kind of crisis. Many say tradition is what holds us back. I say back or not tradition is what holds us together. Forward Africa!