Le Moore...Fine bro fine just busy and recovering from taking a whipping on some shares but the less said..there..

LM...Can't see the argument how can you take out the principle from the cultural practice. This is abritary and opportunitistic and where we are at. Look to many men world wide ownership of a child works in a certain way which it doesnot for women. Women push out children in a physical act you have no need to debate who a child's mother is and hence ownership and identification with children is different with men than women. That is why these discussions tire me because women who have never been a man for one minute in their lives are trying to tell men what is important and how they feel or should feel about certain things which they can never do unless men are boys....

If I do no name my child I do not own it . Simple what is complicated to understand. .

You take your child and **** off and simple and men of better calibre and more standing than me and you have done so and rightly so. As my mother always says women never done so you will always get another and proper woman to have your child with and forget that one..Simple as..

When you consider the million little and overt disses most black men take every day then you may appreciate why this type of 'little' issue to some becomes a Waterloo with no turning back because you can analyse something as superficial as you like or take it deeper.

BP ohhh you know the score only poor men's names or those without corn eg those who are weak have to put up with this shit...because their names mean nish to those women and other people they hold as dear..because if dollars are involved women aint giving no child there name..basic and draw from that what you will..

People just looking to further the denigration of black men. I rate Femergy big time amongst wise sisters but she is a woman and limited by that in this issue. No she cannot understand it and most will not and why men cannot nor should tjhey run important things by committee. Men just do what they have to do because we all know the majority female view and the Keith Sweat type brothers would say so just blank them and don't waste your energy for god sake.

Does any woman know what it feels to sit in a room and hear a brother say for vexness a woman decides to not give child his name and feel the silence in that room or take a temperature reading or what is going through minds of most decent brothers..eg I would put so much licks on that bitch she will find who the **** she playing with because what white man can't do some loud mouth xyz...thinks she can come with...

Nah wise men say nought before collective feeling make a man kill a fool of a girl and make a child an orphan..

Face it many of our women will never have authority in our eyes when they chat such madness rather than listen. They aint men, have no idea of nuff man feel about these things so it a wasted argument.

The woman has an undeniable biological connection to a child and definate continuation that can't possibly be questioned or need to be clarified. That's basic biology. Avoiding the cuckolding that is inherent to all social species. Difficult for a female to understand since it's impossible to cuckoo them as I mentioned. The name is ALL that confirms and links a man to a child in human society. This is obviously before expensive and legally grey DNA tests is socially is far more powerful as a statement.

As pointed out a name is a link to a clan, a grouping a family unit. In a context where you all seem to be taking it for granted people split up (I don't know how this became the norm but anyhoo) the name is even more important if you want the father to acknowledge a child. You might as well dash away any expectations of anything cutting a man off like that.

If a woman I was with didn't want my name after the child's that like a fat "**** you" in my face. Serious disrespect, that would make me analyse the relationship in a hard way. If it was a chick I wasn't with (split rubber or whatever) then it's a get out of jail free card saying "it ain't mine" and I sleep like a comfortable baby absolved of ANYTHING.

[quote=fredblack 2;1446550]

Does any woman know what it feels to sit in a room and hear a brother say for vexness a woman decides to not give child his name and feel the silence in that room or take a temperature reading or what is going through minds of most decent brothers..eg I would put so much licks on that bitch she will find who the **** she playing with because what white man can't do some loud mouth xyz...thinks she can come with...

Thats why I had to take a deep breath yesterday before I typed.. nothing is more annoying than this hyphenated shit to me. Its like the white middle class Americans naming their child Philip Waterford III etc. Or holding the surname to ransom as if its a favour to the father if he sticks around. To me its a concious decision and a sublimal/blatant message to the child that we will write that man who fathered you out of your life. It goes past whether its a patriachial European tradition or not.

I just see it as pure spite. Plain and simple. And that is not an emotion to be projecting onto your child.

sorry but some of Oonu is chatting pure fart....lets get this straight if as a man you want your child to carry your last name then surely the first thing you have to decide is to make sure the woman you're about to stick your dick into is on the same page period!!!!

If you're not sure about the woman, then don't sleep with her period!!

Second if you really really want to guarantee that this child has YOUR name, then discuss the issue of CHILDREN ((((BEFORE))))) you jab your dick in her and better still make the deal LEGAL so it isn't even a question because everyone has the SAME last name simple!!!

To me this is the same crap, as the government trying to push it so that cohabitaing couples have the SAME rights as married couple bollox to that... If you as a man want the RIGHT for the child to bare your last name then HAVE them in WEDLOCK..

If you freely choose to sleep with someone as a single person then shut up and tek yu tings..because its your fault and you simply can't have it both ways...

Some of you are cracking me up with your macho bullshit... trying to have it both ways.. its bolloxs!!! You can't play single life but want married privileges when it comes to having children outside a formal arrangement..

This is not a man versus woman ting, or a black culture versus white ting, this simply a right or wrong ting.. you lot bleating about your rights are full of crap... you cannot swing your dick both ways and expect to have your cake and eat it too...

And before some two faced smart arse opens their mout and chats foolishness about 'looking good'... here's the picture I had my FIRST child out of wedlock and luckily she did carry my last name..for what it was worth.. however i got dicked around and messed about by the mother...

I took that lesson well because I swore from the experience that I'd never have another child out of wedlock again, My second with the SAME person was in Wedlock... and none of the shit with the first occurred, in fact I took my children and RAISED them myself when the mother couldn't and wouldn't..no dicking around about last name, no crap about proving myself... I had FULL PARENTAL rights and so that shit got locked off from the get go...

Now i aint with that wife anymore but my children have my name and their father....

And let me put one final spin on this subject, if i get grandchildren, I aint having no wotless man put his last name on my grandchildren when he aint willing to step up and be a father to those children... Stepping up means more than giving a child your last name... because funnily enough you can't wear that nor can you eat it either...

Some of you give pure joke with you selfish bullshit...Children aint for Xmas they are for life.. the time some of you lot realise that and be more careful who sleep with the better... the test is simple if you're not sure about a woman, or you don't visualize the woman in front of you as the mother of your children...then don't be with her period!!!

errr Kunjufu that was kinda the point...
If it ain't got my name it ain't mine. You're just spinning it backwards.

Hmm not sure i have got it wrong... As i understood the context of this discussion, we are talking people outside wedlock not inside... If people are married then the issue of the name would and should have been debated and resolved...

By law once a child is named and its past the first year [i think stand to be corrected on this], you cannot Change their name without BOTH parents consent.. Therefore the issue of children and last names as i understood could only arise with a man having a child out of stable relationship..and most likely outside of wedlock, did i get this wrong?

Madam Butterfly... I would make the obvious point because I'm sure some may not have considered it... that if as a woman you have a child out of wedlock... and you give the child the fathers last name... then you break up as so many do these days, when you have more children this is where the problems begin.. because you then turn up at school with two children with different last names..

That right there sends out a message to the school and like it or not on the mother when she arrives with pickney with different last names.. it don't look good and it don't exactly come across well for the children either 21st century or not!!!

Sorry but to be harsh but this name thing is a bit bigger than the MANS rights.. the children have RIGHTS too...

Okay outside wedlock...

It comes down to responsibilities and rights. Two sides of the same coin. Can't have one without the other. Deny man rights and you absolve him of responsibilities. Man without responsibilities have no rights. Digg?

Can't name kid something other than the mans AND still expect him to be beholden to a child you're making a statement by disengaging him from. Simple tings.

Inside wedlock it's as I said. Standard. Refusing to have the husbands name is a "**** you" of the highest order and that's not macho tings it's social common sense. There is no other reason for it but spite.