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Why Catholicism isn't Christianity??
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Why Catholicism isn't Christianity?? - 24-06-09, 05:25 AM

The Difference Between Catholicism and Christianity!!!!

Question: What is the difference between Catholicism and Biblical Christianity?

Answer: Catholicism and Biblical Christianity are divergent religions. They are built on different foundations, and they propose different ways of salvation.

In principle, Christianity is built solely on the Holy Scriptures, the written Word of God. The Bible is our only infallible rule of faith, being sufficient to give us the sure knowledge of the Gospel for our salvation and holiness.

Roman Catholicism demands submission of the intellect and will to the doctrines taught by the Roman magisterium (the Pope and bishops). It is claimed that the Catholic Church derives its doctrines from the "sacred deposit" found in Scriptures and Sacred Tradition. However the faithful cannot verify these doctrines by referring to the original sources. The Scriptures are inaccessible because only the magisterium is able to establish the authentic meaning. Similarly the contents of Sacred Tradition can only be known through the magisterium. Roman Catholicism is mental and spiritual slavery to the Vatican.

As expected, since the foundations are different, so also are the edifices built upon them. Christianity stands on the Gospel of God's sovereign grace. In love, God predestines His chosen ones to be adopted as sons through Jesus Christ, their sole mediator. The Son became man and gave His life as a ransom to secure their freedom from sin. Being dead in sin, they are completely unable to convert ourselves or merit God's favour. Therefore God graciously grants His people repentance and faith to turn to Him and trust in Christ Jesus for salvation. Believers are accepted in Christ, solely on the merit of His righteousness and blood, and not because of any goodness or human merit. God also resides in His people by the Holy Spirit, enabling them to obey and glorify the Father, and to guarantee their inheritance in heaven forever.

Rome's "gospel" is not good news at all. The Roman institution, calling itself "The Church", usurps Christ's mediatorial office, proclaiming herself as the "sacrament of salvation." The "Church" dispenses salvation to her faithful in small portions, starting at baptism and continuing throughout life. Forgiveness can only be obtained through the sacrament of penance. The benefits of Christ's sacrifice are accessible through the sacrifice of the Mass. Instead of teaching the faithful to rest in Christ by faith, Catholics are taught to perform religious works to "merit grace" and to do penance to make satisfaction. Even after death, Catholics remains dependent on the "Church" to relieve their suffering in Purgatory by masses and indulgences.

The Roman Catholic Church is a mighty obstacle to anyone seeking salvation, enslaving millions of people to a religious system and preventing them from coming directly to Christ.

The choice is between the Bible and the Roman magisterium; the choice is between salvation by grace through faith in Christ, or through human merit and effort in the Roman religion.


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-Copyright Dr Joe Mizzi-


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25-06-09, 05:18 AM

They believe that Christ was the son of god right? They believe that he was the savior and messiah right? That makes them Christian. The dogma are divide on how to worship and interpret the words of god but all christians believe that Christ was the savior and the son of god and that is what makes them christian, take out that and you're left with Judaism, add to that and you turn to Islam.
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25-06-09, 12:07 PM

false worship...

there will be catholics in heaven because they believed the gospel; Jesus came, died and was raised again from the dead.

but catholicism is false worship because of the angels, mary and other issues...


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26-06-09, 03:32 AM

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false worship...

there will be catholics in heaven because they believed the gospel; Jesus came, died and was raised again from the dead.

but catholicism is false worship because of the angels, mary and other issues...
Exactly....on point


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26-06-09, 08:05 AM

They do not hold the angel and saints in the same standing as God or the holy trinity. Just because they recognize a larger pantheon of beings involved in Christianity doesn't mean that they don't have priorities. As i said earlier, to believe Christ was the savior and the son of god makes the religion christian regardless of the dogmatic differences between the sects of Christianity they all fall under christianty.
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26-06-09, 11:47 PM

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They do not hold the angel and saints in the same standing as God or the holy trinity. Just because they recognize a larger pantheon of beings involved in Christianity doesn't mean that they don't have priorities. As i said earlier, to believe Christ was the savior and the son of god makes the religion christian regardless of the dogmatic differences between the sects of Christianity they all fall under christianty.
The obvious and major infraction in Catholicism is prayer to Mary the mother of Jesus. You see while Mary was blessed among women, she was still a human being and was never given special power beyond that of any other human, nor does or did she have special influence over Jesus, although that is why Catholics pray to her. You see many Catholics take Mary asking Jesus to turn water in to wine and him doing so as an indication that Jesus is more likely to do what Mary asks him. The truth of the matter is that Jesus replied to his mother in this way “who are you woman to ask this of me”. Jesus was not a happy camper when Mommy asked for a favour. The reason prayer to multiple spirits or gods was integrated in to Catholicism was again due to the past traditions of conquered people who would pray to different spirits “in charge” of different things. That was converted in to the many “patron saint of [insert cause here]”. Catholics believe that asking a dead person to pray for you is no different than asking a live person to pray for you, except that you must pray to the dead person for them to pray for you. What Christians believe is this: 1 Timothy 2:5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” This makes it pretty obvious that you aren’t supposed to pray to anyone other than God and Jesus. (Read from 2:1 on for full context.). While the bible does mention in a few places having other LIVING people pray for you it NEVER mentions asking a dead person to pray for you. As that would be prayer to the dead person and if it worked it would mean they have power over God, and that just isn’t the case, and that INCLUDES MARY!

Source
-Why catholics isn't Christianity doc.-
-The Bible-


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27-06-09, 12:06 AM

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They do not hold the angel and saints in the same standing as God or the holy trinity. Just because they recognize a larger pantheon of beings involved in Christianity doesn't mean that they don't have priorities. As i said earlier, to believe Christ was the savior and the son of god makes the religion christian regardless of the dogmatic differences between the sects of Christianity they all fall under christianty.
I can't tell in the heart of a person whether they do things out of ignorance or deception.

the bible clearly tells one who is to be worshipped. not one place is mary or angels spoken of as such. who to pray to is clearly given in scripture and mary and angels are not on the list...

i do believe that their are catholics who will be saved for the reason you gave. but that also does not make the catholic institution a true church. it is a false teaching but it does have the power of the gospel operating in it.

the gospel works...if you knew how to use it and ministered it to a non believer and they believed on the facts of the gospel in his or her heart...according to >>>8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


Romans 10:8-11 (KJV)


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27-06-09, 12:08 AM

Catholics hold mary in such regard because she is the MOTHER OF GOD. She is the closest any human being, any mortal man, could possibly have been to Christ. He grew inside her womb and she carried him around for 9 months. You can't get much closer to Christ than that even if you're his friend, his lover, his step brother, whatever. That is why they pray to mary, they believe in the eternal soul and believe that when they pray to her they are making a connection with the human being that was closest to Christ.

You say asking a dead person. To them they see it as asking the soul of another human being who led an exceptionally lose life to god for their strength and guidance. It is no different than asking for a preacher to pray for you. Even though his is alive and earth his earthly form is meaningless in comparison to his everlasting spirit which when he dies with reside (maybe) in Heaven. So it's like having a preacher in heaven who you can call on for guidance. How this translates into having control over God is beyond me and seems more to be the way you take it than them. If you ask any Catholic who is greater, God or St.Paul they will say God.

I think you need to read up more in what Saints are in the eyes of the Catholic Church because they believe that everyone who makes it to heaven is a saint because they have been completely purified and are holy. The "S" Saints, the ones with a capitol letter are just the ones who have been recognized as saints on earth. They teach that they don't make anyone a saint, only recognize them.

Again they still believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God, the savior of Man and part of the Holy Trinity and that is all it takes to be a Christian religion. That is it. There are no other qualifications than that.

In YOUR opinion they might not be christian but by how the religions are defined, they are.
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27-06-09, 12:46 AM

you must not be listening to what i have said zeb...i said that if they have confessed that Jesus is the savior and that he went to the cross, died and was raised on the third day they are saved. there are some doctrines that are damnable.

but on to what you mentioned...

what catholics regard or think does not matter to God when it comes to worship. you say mary is closer to Jesus than anyother human being.

check this out:

46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Matt 12:46-50 (KJV)

That Jesus loved Mary is without doubt to me. He loved her as a son ought to. He came to do the will of the Father which was to die for the sins of men that they might have a right to eternal life. Mary's love for her Son did not want this. She was a mother of the man Jesus not the God. She saw only her son the man. Mary and the kids came to get Jesus in the above scenario. She knew the crowds were getting ready to kill her son.

God surely would have told that when we pray we pray to HE and mary in the name of Jesus. But He only said pray to Him, not the angels or 'other' saints or anyone else. Not peter, not paul, but to the Father in the Son's name. I have discussed this with catholic friends many times. the same argument you have given...sounds practical and very human but not what God said....

we don't have to have anyone pray for us now....does not mean we can't do it...but we are told to come boldly before the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy in time of need"...Jesus' death gave men access to God again that was denied us after adam's fall. when we believe on Him and what the Gospel said we are made sons again and thus have access to the Father....

we don't need a priest to confess to, have pray for us...you see how far off some of the catholic doctrine is. it is right there in the bible...

these saints you claim are man made, not God made...they may be some wonderful people in life but the bible gives no such authority to set men and women up as such. all believers are saints...


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27-06-09, 01:04 AM

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Catholics hold mary in such regard because she is the MOTHER OF GOD. She is the closest any human being, any mortal man, could possibly have been to Christ. He grew inside her womb and she carried him around for 9 months. You can't get much closer to Christ than that even if you're his friend, his lover, his step brother, whatever. That is why they pray to mary, they believe in the eternal soul and believe that when they pray to her they are making a connection with the human being that was closest to Christ.

You say asking a dead person. To them they see it as asking the soul of another human being who led an exceptionally lose life to god for their strength and guidance. It is no different than asking for a preacher to pray for you. Even though his is alive and earth his earthly form is meaningless in comparison to his everlasting spirit which when he dies with reside (maybe) in Heaven. So it's like having a preacher in heaven who you can call on for guidance. How this translates into having control over God is beyond me and seems more to be the way you take it than them. If you ask any Catholic who is greater, God or St.Paul they will say God.

I think you need to read up more in what Saints are in the eyes of the Catholic Church because they believe that everyone who makes it to heaven is a saint because they have been completely purified and are holy. The "S" Saints, the ones with a capitol letter are just the ones who have been recognized as saints on earth. They teach that they don't make anyone a saint, only recognize them.

Again they still believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God, the savior of Man and part of the Holy Trinity and that is all it takes to be a Christian religion. That is it. There are no other qualifications than that.

In YOUR opinion they might not be christian but by how the religions are defined, they are.
It's not my opinion *Zeb* you have to understand just because someone says they are a christian doesn't mean that they are. The antichrist will appear like christ, if it where possible he would deceive the very elect, good thing its not possible. Christianity is a personal relationship with Jesus christ not marry nor any other angels i didn't disagree with saints, but worshipping them is another thing *zeb*. Like Meknow said "I can't tell in the heart of a person whether they do things out of ignorance or deception."

So here is a few brief questions for you *Zeb* since you present to be knowledgable in these manners! how come the catholics baptize in the name of the father, son, & the holy spirit? and where in the scriptures will you find worship of angels & marry? why is the pope so glorified? and furthermore where in the bible does it say to pray to the dead? i am very anxious to find these things in the bible...


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27-06-09, 01:38 AM

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It's not my opinion *Zeb* you have to understand just because someone says they are a christian doesn't mean that they are. The antichrist will appear like christ, if it where possible he would deceive the very elect, good thing its not possible. Christianity is a personal relationship with Jesus christ not marry nor any other angels i didn't disagree with saints, but worshipping them is another thing *zeb*. Like Meknow said "I can't tell in the heart of a person whether they do things out of ignorance or deception."

So here is a few brief questions for you *Zeb* since you present to be knowledgable in these manners! how come the catholics baptize in the name of the father, son, & the holy spirit? and where in the scriptures will you find worship of angels & marry? why is the pope so glorified? and furthermore where in the bible does it say to pray to the dead? i am very anxious to find these things in the bible...

And also the bible tells us to be baptized in the name of the father, son and the holy spirit. and what might that name be, you asked, well that name is jesus christ. And also god clearly does not want us to put any other name before his. and if you believe in god(jesus) why not pray to him for your problems or thank him for what hes done for you, why pray to someone who is dead. in the end mary was just a human like us except god chose to use her for his glory but that does not mean we should worship her, or pray to her.
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27-06-09, 01:49 AM

check this our Zeb...

26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. 28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. Luke 1:26-28 (KJV)

not above a soul but among...it's clear...


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27-06-09, 04:18 AM

So none of you have asked others to pray for you? At the church that my mother attended, a Baptist church i might add, there was a certain time in the service set aside for a person to stand at the podium and speak the names of the sick and shut in and they asked the congregation to pray for them. That is people asking people to ask god to watch over them. That is what praying to a Saint is. People asking the soul of a person who lived a holy life and often died in maytrdom who must surely be sitting in heaven now, an elder who knows better and has experienced worse, asking this soul to ask god to watch over them. When a person prays ask a Saint for strength it is no different than asking your congregation to pray for you because in the end all things go to God.

I find it very hard to believe that a person who claims to be Christian places so much emphasis on the state of the person being living or dead when the bible teaches that the body is merely the vessel for the soul which transcends death.

how come the catholics baptize in the name of the father, son, & the holy spirit?
The same thing as being baptized solely in the name of God, or solely in the name of Christ because the Father/Son/Holy spirit are all one. Why Christians participate in baptism probably has something to do with the John the baptist baptizing people.

where in the scriptures will you find worship of angels & marry?
Catholics don't "worship angels" they consider them to be holy and know that they are righteous tools of God who he sends forth to do his bidding. They recognize this connection and believe that God sends angels to watch over his followers but that is as far as it goes. As for Mary, praying to Mary and worshiping marry are two different things which you can't seem to differentiate between. Catholics do not place Mary on the same level as they place God or Christ, i've said that before, im saying it again, maybe this time you will read it.

why is the pope so glorified?
At this point what i suspected has become extremely obvious. If you are going to criticize, bash, or otherwise condemn something you must first KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. It is not enough to understand just your side and the oppositions side a little. To fully make a reasonable argument against you must have just as much knowledge of the opposition as you do of what you are supporting. The Catholics glorify The Pope because he is the successor to Peter, the very first Bishop of the Church. They believe Peter was given this role by Jesus who called him the shepherd or the rock of the church or something along those lines.

and furthermore where in the bible does it say to pray to the dead?
See the above comments i made.

these saints you claim are man made, not God made...they may be some wonderful people in life but the bible gives no such authority to set men and women up as such. all believers are saints...
I already said the Church agrees that it has no power to create a Saint. Only to recognize a person they believe to be one in life. I also already said that Saints with a capital "S" are just those who were recognized in life. In death they believe everyone is a saint (lowercase s). You haven't been reading what i've been writing very well meknow.

If you want to understand more about the relationship that Catholics have with mary, just go to wikipedia because they've complied alot more information on the topic than i have but i will quote this.
Quote:
A number of important doctrines concerning Mary are held by Christian churches. Primary among these are that Mary lived a sinless life, and that as mother of Jesus, she became Theotokos, literally the "God-bearer", or "Mother of God". This doctrine was confirmed by the Ecumenical Council of Ephesus in the year 431. Christians of the major ancient traditions including the Catholic and the Orthodox offer prayers to God through Mary and venerate her as intercessor and mother of the church.
The wiki page on Mary is full on information on the subject that explains alot of what you seem angry at Catholics about.



I think im done here. It is funny to see where Christianity started and where it ended up. Even though both you guys and Catholics know and recognize Jesus and preach his teachings you actively seek to undermine them by driving a wedge between them. Us vs Them. We are right They are wrong. In my opinion the Catholic church is outdated. It refuses to evolve and has become stuck in it old traditions and customs passed down for hundreds of years. You don't even take into account that had the Catholic Church not come to power the way it did all Christians would have eventually been hunted down and killed, an easy task because back then its not like there was alot of you. And now you don't even recognize them as Christian. Prayer is simply spiritual communication where as worship is a form of devotion. These are difference you don't seem to recognize and so because of them you cast out someone who should be a brother because at the end of the day both of you share a great love and passion for Jesus Christ.

Divide and conquer is the devil's game they say, you are drawing enough lines here to keep him happy for awhile i think.

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27-06-09, 05:47 AM

I did not say that we can't ask people to stand in agreement with us in prayer. because people are not taught properly they do not know that there is a prayer of agreement. i have a son who will be released from prison in a few weeks. I have asked certain members to stand in agreement with me to be able to do battle with demons that will try and attach themselves to him and come out with him. The first step he takes out side the door of the prison I will lay hands on him in the name of Jesus and do warfare with any demonic spirit that happens to be around.

i have already prayed and they are agreeing with me in prayer.

Praying to saints is praying to saints. Praying to God is praying to God. Saints have no power except what is given by God. all though the bible we have been given power as individual saints.

2 Peter 1:3...3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2 Peter 1:3 (KJV) this has been afforded to all believers...

Phil 4:13...13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Phil 4:12-13 (KJV) this also...

Eph 3:11,12...11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
Eph 3:11-12 (KJV) and this also

Eph 6:10-18...10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: 18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;Eph 6:10-18 (KJV) and this also

you are right zeb, my emphasis is not on the dead or living soul but the Word of God and what it says not what human logic says. i like you once challenged those who witnessed Christ to me with logic...later on i challenged God to prove Himself to me...He did...

you were done before you started zeb...not scriptures to back what you and they say only your opinon...if i give you my opinion you don't have to accept it...but if i give you the bible that is another thing...[and as i said earlier God gives you freewill to not accept His word]..

you never gave one scripture only your opinion...well if you are done then so am i...


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27-06-09, 06:15 AM

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Originally Posted by lordzeb View Post
So none of you have asked others to pray for you? At the church that my mother attended, a Baptist church i might add, there was a certain time in the service set aside for a person to stand at the podium and speak the names of the sick and shut in and they asked the congregation to pray for them. That is people asking people to ask god to watch over them. That is what praying to a Saint is. People asking the soul of a person who lived a holy life and often died in maytrdom who must surely be sitting in heaven now, an elder who knows better and has experienced worse, asking this soul to ask god to watch over them. When a person prays ask a Saint for strength it is no different than asking your congregation to pray for you because in the end all things go to God.

I find it very hard to believe that a person who claims to be Christian places so much emphasis on the state of the person being living or dead when the bible teaches that the body is merely the vessel for the soul which transcends death.

how come the catholics baptize in the name of the father, son, & the holy spirit?
The same thing as being baptized solely in the name of God, or solely in the name of Christ because the Father/Son/Holy spirit are all one. Why Christians participate in baptism probably has something to do with the John the baptist baptizing people.

where in the scriptures will you find worship of angels & marry?
Catholics don't "worship angels" they consider them to be holy and know that they are righteous tools of God who he sends forth to do his bidding. They recognize this connection and believe that God sends angels to watch over his followers but that is as far as it goes. As for Mary, praying to Mary and worshiping marry are two different things which you can't seem to differentiate between. Catholics do not place Mary on the same level as they place God or Christ, i've said that before, im saying it again, maybe this time you will read it.

why is the pope so glorified?
At this point what i suspected has become extremely obvious. If you are going to criticize, bash, or otherwise condemn something you must first KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. It is not enough to understand just your side and the oppositions side a little. To fully make a reasonable argument against you must have just as much knowledge of the opposition as you do of what you are supporting. The Catholics glorify The Pope because he is the successor to Peter, the very first Bishop of the Church. They believe Peter was given this role by Jesus who called him the shepherd or the rock of the church or something along those lines.

and furthermore where in the bible does it say to pray to the dead?
See the above comments i made.

these saints you claim are man made, not God made...they may be some wonderful people in life but the bible gives no such authority to set men and women up as such. all believers are saints...
I already said the Church agrees that it has no power to create a Saint. Only to recognize a person they believe to be one in life. I also already said that Saints with a capital "S" are just those who were recognized in life. In death they believe everyone is a saint (lowercase s). You haven't been reading what i've been writing very well meknow.

If you want to understand more about the relationship that Catholics have with mary, just go to wikipedia because they've complied alot more information on the topic than i have but i will quote this.
The wiki page on Mary is full on information on the subject that explains alot of what you seem angry at Catholics about.



I think im done here. It is funny to see where Christianity started and where it ended up. Even though both you guys and Catholics know and recognize Jesus and preach his teachings you actively seek to undermine them by driving a wedge between them. Us vs Them. We are right They are wrong. In my opinion the Catholic church is outdated. It refuses to evolve and has become stuck in it old traditions and customs passed down for hundreds of years. You don't even take into account that had the Catholic Church not come to power the way it did all Christians would have eventually been hunted down and killed, an easy task because back then its not like there was alot of you. And now you don't even recognize them as Christian. Prayer is simply spiritual communication where as worship is a form of devotion. These are difference you don't seem to recognize and so because of them you cast out someone who should be a brother because at the end of the day both of you share a great love and passion for Jesus Christ.

Divide and conquer is the devil's game they say, you are drawing enough lines here to keep him happy for awhile i think.
I was raised as a catholic very familiar with what they believe as far as the doctrine *zeb*. A lot of copy and pasted material here, i think what you need to understand is that just because you read up on something doesn't necessarily mean it is so. If i understand you clearly in what i have gathered from your posts on here is that you are saying that no religion/cult is wrong or right? that all of them lead to one True God?...regarldless of the practices and teachings in the religions/cults? we are all just praising the same God no matter the circumstance right?...if so than one could conclude like you have that we are all just puppets in a grand scheme of things God doesn't care about mankind?...so if the bible in fact where written by all these man and wasn't inspired how come it holds truths, when i mean truths, prophecies fulfilled and still continue to be, the signs that follow those that believe are beyond human comprehension one could also conclude that they surpass scientific understanding, how could men device such a book as the bible, even archeology evidence has been found the exact places fortold in the bible, kings that where once denied to have existed, found...so much proof *zeb* and i am not bashing on catholism here simply making a valid statement that it isn't the same as christianity and it's a false worship, of saints, mary and the pope...angels and much more. It does not match up with what the bible says the Apostle Paul also warned that the last days would bring a marked increase in false teaching. “In the latter times, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils” (1 Timothy 4:1).

Let me make a clear point *zeb* remember in matthew 28:19 when Y'shua (Jesus) commands the apostles to "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." Now notice one thing here *Zeb* when Y'shua (Jesus) departs from them what is the promise given to the apostles? when they go to the upper room and start speaking into different tongues after receiving the *Holy spirit* they finally understand that Y'shua (jesus) is all in one and therefore they baptize in his name and do everything in his name, now the catholics still use (father, son & holy ghost). Another thing is when you are baptized in his name you are promised power...now notice one thing John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4). Notice in acts 19:1-5 "And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

You see *zeb* The Holy Spirit is the Speaker in the Old Testament (Act.1:16, 28:25, Heb.3:7), and in the New Testament (Rev.2:7), using different men and women. The Book of Hebrews quotes from the Psalms, the Law, and the prophets, in each case attributing authorship to the Holy Spirit (Heb.3:7-10, 9:6-8, 10:15-17). And the Apostles also spoke in words taught by the Spirit (1Cor.2:13).
All of this, of course, in accordance with the teachings of Jesus: "The Holy Spirit… will teach you all things, and bring you to remembrance all that I said to you… He will guide you into all the truth" (Jn.14:26, 16:13)… and again, the Holy Spirit is using men and women of the people of God, of the Church of Christ.

You can pick up the bible and try to comprehend it the way you want to, but if you do not have the Holy spirit *zeb* you will not understand it the way it's supposed to be, its always relevant to know the author i might add.


"The best ammunition against lies is the truth, there is no ammunition against gossip. It is like a fog and the clear wind blows it away and the sun burns it off.”

Last edited by Truth23; 27-06-09 at 06:46 AM.
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