What is a Christian?

Kunjufu · (#1 (**permalink**))

I have always wondered what makes someone a Christian, when i was young the pretence used to be that you were a Christian if you attended church every week.. I have heard other depict Christians as a clean living person who doesn't drink, indulge in slackness, Swear or do 'bad' things whatever that is.. Now people tell me I'm a Christian but my Church is where ever I stand and reflect on the teachings of Jesus..finally i'm also given the impression that one can be a Christian but still align myself to the unprovoked use of force against people I've never met, and then give thanks we were victorious in a one sided conflict..is that Christianity or in keeping with Jesus's philosophy ...I'm not sure I struggle with these perceptions of Christianity..so can anyone tell me what is a Christian in 2003?

Kunjufu · (#2 (**permalink**))

Kareem wrote:[quote]

I believe a Christian is ANYONE who confesses Jesus Christ as their lord and resucrrected savior.

No matter what they do.
Drink, cuss, fights, steal, kill, commit homosexual acts..as long a they believe that Jesus died and rose for their sins...they are "Christians".

Now a GOOD or BAD Chrisian is another subject all together because obviously to be a good Chrisian one should obey all the commandments and rules that Christ and the bible laid out...or atleast try to.

[line]

Kareem; sorry but i've got to ask...are you telling me that so long as i acknowledge jesus as my saviour...I can murder, fornicate, abuse children and hump a dog and i'd still be a Christian..why does this seem a bit odd to me?

Kareem isn't that a bit like saying that I can commit murder and still be a police officer, isn't there a point when ones behaviour automatically disqualifies you from a certain position?

OriginalBM · (#3 (**permalink**))

Bismillaah Salaam, Since we are here to learn, the point should be made that there is a difference in understanding between the Bible and The Bounteous Qur'aan. In Chapter 4, verse 157, THE GOD {Allaah, Glory Be To HIM} states that HIS, "Anointed" [Messiah] Prophet Isa [Jesus, may the Blessings and Peace of Allaah, be upon Him] was neither killed nor crucified. Chapter 3, verse 55, states that THE GOD {Allaah, The High Exalted} raised The Christ Isa to HIMSELF.

Qur'aan online: http://www.al-islam.org/quran/

Karen Applewhite · (#4 (**permalink**))

blktype A CHRISTIAN IS ONE WHOM FOLLOWS CHRIST AND HIS TEACHINGS, AS DID THE DISCIPLES AND THE EARLY CENTURY CHRUCH, IN UNDERSTANDING THE FIRST CENTURY CHRUCH AND HOW THE TRUE CHRISTIAN WERE IT'S IMPERITIVE TO GAIN UNDERSTANDING OF WHO THEY WERE AND WHAT THEY DID BY READING THE BOOK OF ACTS STARTING IN CHAPTER 2. THE FIRST CHRUCH WAS ESTABLISHED IN ANTICOCH BY THE DISCIPLES THE APOSTLE PETER WAS ONE OF THE FIRST TO ADDRESS THE PEOPLE WHOM WOULD SOON BE THE FIRST CENTURY CHRISTIANS ABOUT CHRIST HE TAUGHT THEM THE TEACHINGS OF CHRIST (ACTS 2:42) AT PENTECOST. MIRACLOUS SIGNS WERE PERFORMED THERE AND MANY WERE AMAZED AND THEN GOING FORTH STUDY THE TEACHINGS OF CHRIST BY THE APOSTLES AND WERE BAPTIZED . THE BIBLE SAID THAT THE NUMBER WAS APPX 3,000.

THE WORD CHRISTIAN ACTUALLY ORGINATED AS AN DIROGATORY WORD , LABELED ON THE EARLIER FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST . IT RAPIDLY SPREAD AND ANYONE WHO WAS LABELED SUCH WOULD BE PERSECUTED MORE SO EXCUTED BY THE ROMANS AS THE EARLY CHRUCHES WERE BEING PERSECUTED SOME FOLLOWERS BEGAN TO SCATTER AND SOME EVEN WONDER FROM THE FAITH , WHICH IS A BEHAVIOR QUITE PREVILANT TODAY. AS YOU TRACK THE EARLY CHRISTIANS THEIR WERE A VIEW MAKING THEMSELVES MARTARS WHICH QUICKLY BROUGHT ATTENTION TO THE FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST.

Karen Applewhite · (#5 (**permalink**))

THE EARLY CENTURY CHRISTIANS AS YOU CAN SEE WERE DEDICATED TO GOD / CHRIST THEREFORE PUSHING THE MOVEMENT OF CHRISIANITY ALONG . THEY WERE FAITHFUL IN FOLLOWING THE WORD (BIBLE) AND THEY WERE INSTRUMENTAL IN PUTTING THE TEACHINGS OF CHRIST INTO ACTION IN THEIR DAILY LIFES , VERY FEW CHRISTIANS TODAY ATTEMPT WHOLEHEARTEDLY TO DO SO BECUASE OF PERHAPS THE STRONG EMPHASISE ON DENYING ONESELF TO FOLLOW CHRISTSTEACHINGS .WHAT I SEE AMONGEST CHRISTIANS TODAYIS THAT THEY AREMORE CONCERNED WITH HOW THEY WILL APPEAR IN MANS EYES RATHER THAN GODS. AND IN UNDERSTANDING CHRIST AS JESUS SAYS IN PHILLIPIANS 2:1-11 FOLLOW GOD AND THIS IS WHERE SALVATION WILL COME ABOUT MANY DESTORT THIS BECUASE THEY DON'T HAVE AN ADEQUATE UNDERSTANDING OF THIER DOCTRINE AND WHAT GOD/CHRIST EXPECTS OF THEM AS FOLLOWERS. AND HE (MEANING JESUS) ALSO UNDERSTOOD THAT EQUALITYWITH GOD WAS NOTSOMETHING TO BE GRASPED, BUT HE MADE HIMSELF (JESUS THAT IS ) A SERVANT ONTO MAN TO TEACH THEM HOW THEY ARE TO LIVE FOR GOD . THAT WAS HARD FOR MANY CHRISTIANS THEN AND EVEN NOW TO ACHIEVE , BECUASE OF THERE OWN SINFUL NATURE AND DESIRE TO FOLLOW SATAN RATHER THAN GOD /CHRIST.

FROM WHAT I OBSERVE TODAY NOT MANY CHRISTIANS HAVE A THOROUGH UNDERSTANDING OF THIER DOCTRINE , FUTHER MORE THE WORD OF GOD AS WRITTEN IN THE TORAH AND NEW TESTMENT HAS BEEN TRANSCRIBE BY SOME AND TRANSLATED BY MANY AND IN THIS PROCESS SOME HAVE ACTUALLY CHANGED THE ORGINAL TEXT OF THE BIBLE IN DOING SO THEY'VE CHANGED THE MEANING AND TEACHINGS TO SOME EXTENT OF CHRIST /GOD AND AS REVELATIONS STATES THOSE THAT ADD OR TAKE AWAY FROM THE WORD (BIBLE ) WILL EXPERIENCE PUNISHMENT BY GOD 10 TIMES OVER (THE PLAGUES). THAT'S WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT IF YOU'RE A CHRISTIAN TO EXAMINE THE SCRIPTURES STUDY IT AS DID THE BEREANS IN THE BIBLE AND COMMITT YOURSELF TO PUTTING IT INTO PRACTICE ON A DAILY BASES SO THAT YOUR LIFE AND DOCTRINE CAN COINCIDE AT A BALANCE SO THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY MISREPRESENTATION OF THE WORD OF GOD THROUGH YOUR ACTIONS AS A FOLLOWER OF CHRIST. WHETHER IT'S IN 2003 OR ANY CENTURY TILL THE COMING OF GOD !

KAREN, guyflag

Karen Applewhite · (#6 (**permalink**))

Kareem wrote:

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Kunjufu:

Kareem isn't that a bit like saying that I can commit murder and still be a police officer, isn't there a point when ones behaviour automatically disqualifies you from a certain position

Yes, and as a matter of fact it's a PERFECT analogy.

There are plenty of corrupt police officers out their robbing, raping, and killing on thier jobs but they just haven't been caught or prosecuted so they still have their position.

These corrupt cops are still just as certified as Officer Friendly...their behavior hasn't negated their title.

A Christian MUST be a Christian based on his beliefs rather than his actions because if your deeds make you a Christian then one must provide a script of the duties of a Christian and hold all Christians accountable for obeying them or lose thier title as Christian.

MsSassy:

Okay, Christian is defined in the Oxford Dictionary as someone who believes in christianity..

Works for me! niceone.gif

Kareem you said that Jesus didn't come to destroy the laws he came to fulfil and I agree with you...but what does fulfil mean?? To accomplish...to carry out. Now if he's coming to do that then does it not mean that the people of old (Israelites) were falling short somewhere...were they not continuously breaking the laws that God laid out for them....and that's why Jesus came because the old system wasn't working...our deliverance is through Him! Someone can't just simply follow the laws, isn't that what it's saying?

Now hold up Sassy!

I don't know where you're arriving at with all these conclusions because if we were talking face to face I'd have to cut you off at the part when you said "the old system wasn't working".

The SYSTEM was working it was just that the Children kept turning to paganism and disobeying the clear laws given to them.

Jesus just came to put them BACK on the right path...not give them a new one. All Christian should still be trying to follow the laws laid out in the Old Testament.

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YOUR ABSOLUTELY CORRECT WITH THAT STATEMENT KAREEM , MATTHEW 19 :17-19 JESUS DOES CLEARLY STATE " DON'T THINK THAT I HAVE COME TO ABOLISH THE LAW OF THE PROPHETS I HAVE COME NOT TO ABOLISH BUT TO FULFILL THEM" . UNDERSTAND THAT THE ISREALITES WERE UNDER THE LAWS YES , BUT WHEN CHRIST CAME ON THE SCENCE THEY WERE NOW UNDER GRACE SO NOW THE NEED FOR CATTLE , LAMB SACRIFICES WERE NO LONGER NECEESSARY BECAUSE OF THE BLOOD OF CHRIST . ( HIM DYING ON THE CROSS AS AN ULTIMATE ATONMENT / SACRIFICE FOR THE PEOPLES SIN.

Now that's if you're trying to follow Christ's example....Paul clearly states that you don't have to do this in the New Testament.

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NOW THIS STATEMENT HAPPENS TO BE INCORRECT KAREEM PAUL DOES STATE IN SEVERAL AREAS IN THE BIBLE , BUT IAM GOING TO ONLY MENTION ONE IN ACTS 19: 4-5 PAUL SAYS " JOHN BAPTISM WAS ONE OF REPENTANCE , HE TOLD THE PEOPLE TO BELIEVE IN THE ONE COMING AFTER HIM THAT IS IN JESUS. SO HE CLEARLY STATES FOLLOW AND BELIEF IN JESUS.ALSO INACTS 21: 22-24 PAUL AGAIN EMPHASIZES HOWEVER I CONSIDER MY LIFE WORTH NOTHING TO ME , IF ONLY I MAY FINISH THE RACE AND COMPLETE THE TASK THE LORD JESUS HAS GIVEN ME - THE TASK OF TESTIFYING TO THE GOSPEL OF GOD'S GRACE.ONE NEEDS TO CLEARLY UNDERSTAND THE NEW TESTAMENT ONLY REDEFINES THE OLD , NONE TAKES THE PLACE OR SUPERCIDES THE OTHER THEY ARE TO BE FOLLOWED IN IT'S ENTIRITY AS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW ONE IS TO LIVE IF THEY'RE TO BE A CHRISTAIN.

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So it's obvious that Paul and Jesus had 2 totally different doctrines so if you wanna follow Jesus..you better stick to the words Old Testament and only Red Letters of the New.

MAKE NO MISTAKE THERE IS OR WAS NEVER A CONTRADICTION OF STATEMENT BY PAUL IN REGUARDS TO JESUS THEIR TEACHINGSWERE ONE THAT WAS ON THE SAME PAGE AS THE OTHER. ULTIMATELY THE GOAL IS TO FOLLOW AND OBEY GOD !

You said at the end of your thread: "They should STILL be killing lambs and cattle for sacrifice" why???? I mean, if you're talking about the sacrificial system that was done every year then why did Jesus come??

To gather the LOST Children of Israel (in Ethiopia, Egypt, India, ect) and set the back on the right path again.

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AS MENTIONED PRIOR IN MY POST , THE NEED FOR CATTLE OR LAMB SACRIFICE IS NO LONGER NECESSARY BECUASE OF CHRIST DYING FOR THE PEOPLES SIN. GOD SENT JESUS DOWN ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE BECUASE TIME AND TIME AGAIN THE ISREALITES KEPT SINNING AND OFFERING SACRIFICES AND WHAT GOD WANTED FROM THEM WAS A CIRCUMSICION OF THE HEART . TO BE CUT BY THEIR SIN AND MOVED TO REPENTANCE , HOWEVER THIS DID NOT TAKE PLACE ALWAYS . SO THEY KEPT SINNING AND GOD KEPT FORGIVING THEM TILL EVENTUALLY GOD HAD SO MUCH COMPASSION AND MERCY HE SENT HIS SON DOWN AS AN ULTIMATE DISPLAY OF HIS LOVE AND COMPASSION APON HIS PEOPLE ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE (BIBLE) . THROUGH JESUS GOD HOPED THAT HIS CHOOSEN PEOPLE WOULD REPENT AND TURN TO CHRIST BUT THEY DID NOT ACCEPT HIM ( THE JEWS THAT IS) HE WAS THE CAPSTONE THAT WAS REJECTED .

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HAVE A BLESSED DAY ALL ,

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SALAAMS.

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KAREN blktrainers

Karen:

A CHRISTIAN IS ONE WHOM FOLLOWS CHRIST AND HIS TEACHINGS, AS DID THE DISCIPLES AND THE EARLY CENTURY CHRUCH, IN UNDERSTANDING THE FIRST CENTURY CHRUCH AND HOW THE TRUE CHRISTIAN WERE IT'S IMPERITIVE TO GAIN UNDERSTANDING OF WHO THEY WERE AND WHAT THEY DID BY READING THE BOOK OF ACTS STARTING IN CHAPTER 2. THE FIRST CHRUCH WAS ESTABLISHED IN ANTICOCH BY THE DISCIPLES THE APOSTLE PETER WAS ONE OF THE FIRST TO ADDRESS THE PEOPLE WHOM WOULD SOON BE THE FIRST CENTURY CHRISTIANS ABOUT CHRIST HE TAUGHT THEM THE TEACHINGS OF CHRIST (ACTS 2:42) AT PENTECOST. MIRACLOUS SIGNS WERE PERFORMED THERE AND MANY WERE AMAZED AND THEN GOING FORTH STUDY THE TEACHINGS OF CHRIST BY THE APOSTLES AND WERE BAPTIZED . THE BIBLE SAID THAT THE NUMBER WAS APPX 3,000.

Thanx. blkthumbsup

Very good historical information that all those who call themselves Christian should take note of.

THE WORD CHRISTIAN ACTUALLY ORGINATED AS AN DIROGATORY WORD , LABELED ON THE EARLIER FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST .

Johnny Carson said: Now..now I did not know that!
Hmmmm.....

Salaams

Spiritual Man:

Greetings ppl love and blessings continually..... As the lady said a true christian is a follower of the way this way is the light CHRIST......

Greetings!

I agree to a point, but again...where do we draw the line on what is the conduct of a true Christian or a true Muslim or a true Jew?

Didn't the Book say ALL have sinned??

So if all of us are sinners then how can you say HE or SHE ain't a real Christian if they are indeed professing Christ?

If everyone is sinning then certainly you can't use a person's ACTIONS against them in determining their status.

[quote]THE THING TO UNDERSTAND HERE KAREEM IS GOD TRULY KNOWS WE'RE IMPERFECT , HE ONLY HOPES THAT WE STRIFE TO BE OBEY HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS IN OUR DAILY LIFES , HE JUDGES OUR THOUGHTS , HEARTS, ACTIONS NOT MAN AND HE WIEGHS THEM AND DISCERNS THEM JUSTLY . SO IN ALL THAT ONE DOES IF THEY CHOOSE TO GRATIFY THEIR EVIL NATURE SO SHALL THEY DO AND IF THEY DESIRE TO PLZ GOD THEN THAT TO THEY SHALL DO . GOD HOLDS YOU ACCOUNTABLE IN THE END KAREEM FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS AND DECISIONS IN THIS LIFE THAT IS WHY WE'RE TO LIVE IT WISELY AND IN REVERENT FEAR AND LOVE FOR GOD .................. .

OriginalBM · (#7 (**permalink**))

You wouldn't mind reading a "used" example would ya baby???? blk2kiss

Now wait a minute baby!!!!!!

Bismillaah Salaam, Kareem. would you guys please stop that smooching in the back pew! Thank you.

Salaam. OriginalBM

Karen Applewhite · (#8 (**permalink**))

Kareem wrote:

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...Ahhhhh...they tryna set it offnow!!!!!!

Sassy:

Kareem, out of interest, do you go to church and what one?
To be more specific, what religion are you exactly?

I'm a Muslim so I don't go to church.

But even if I was a Christian...I doubt if I'd be going to church because I don't feel that most churches are qualified to teach me anything.

I know the bible better than most ministers and congregation.

I think you misunderstood me when I said 'the system wasn't working"!!! I didn't say that Jesus came to give a new one if you look at what I said...I said Jesus came not to destroy but to fulfil...which is correct...but what I went on to say was the reason it wasn't working, IT'S WASN'T WORKING BECAUSE THEY (ISRAEL) WERE CONTINUOUSLY BREAKING THE LAWS AND THAT'S WHY GOT SENT HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON JESUS!!!

Yes but shouldn'tthe burden be on the people to OBEY the law rather than the law itself? Why should the law be changed just because the people refuse to obey it.

If I give you the correct instructions to bake a chocolate cake and you turn around and do things YOUR way and things end up a disaster...who's fault is it.

It wasn't the system (set of instructions) that fail but the person who neglected to follow the instructions properly!

They are the ones at blame.

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FEW AREAS OF POINT TO MENTION HERE KAREEM , FIRSTLY THE LAW WASN'T CHANGED DUE TO THEM NOT BEING OBEDIENT UNTO IT ! THEY WERE CLEARLY PUNISHED FOR NOT BEING OBEDIENT UNTO THE LAW OR MORE SO GOD, SECONDLY BECUASE OF THEIR LACK OF OBEDIENCE AS FROM GENESIS ALL THE WAY TO 1AND 2 JOHN PEOPLE KEPT ON SINNING EVEN TO THE PRESENT DAY , THE DIFFRENCE IS GOD HAD COMPASSION MORE SO GRACE IN FORGIVING THEM IN THE MIDST OF THEIR SIN , THAT'S CALLED UNCONDITIONAL LOVE TO LOVE SOMEONE EVEN WHEN THERE NOT RECIPROCATING THAT BACK , THAT'S THE TYPE OF LOVE GOD DEMONSTRATES AS MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE.ONE MUST UNDERSTAND GOD DOESN'T LOVE IN THE MEASURES IN WHICH MAN DOES , IT'S ALL QUITE DIFFRENT YOU'D ONLY NEED TO READ 1JOHN 4 : 7-21 TO COME TO THAT CONCULSION (NOT MY WORDS KAREEM BUT THE BIBLE , WHICH IS THE POINT OF DISCUSSION HERE CORRECT ? ) RELIGION JUST HAPPENED TO BE MY MAJOR OF STUDY , SO IT'S ENABLED ME TO CONVERSE AND UNDERSTAND ALL FACETS OF RELIGION WHETHER I AGREE APON THEM OR NOT...........

blkdemonSee Sassy, the same argument could be made with the Christians of today.

We can say that even though Jesus came 2000 years ago and the gospel has been preached around the world...still billions of people aren't even Christian.

MANY AREN'T TRUE CHRISTIANS AS WAS THE FIRST CENTURY CHRUCH , BECAUSE THEY LACK THE SELF DENIAL OR EVEN SELF DISCIPLINE IT TAKES TO FOLLOW THIER DOCTRINE (THE BIBLE) COMPLETELY AND WHOLEHEARTEDLY.

And of those who call themselve Christian, MOST are constantly sinning and don't accepting Jesus whole-heartedly as their ultimate Lord and Savior....not all...but most.

So now, will we call Jesus a failure or his system a failure? confused3

AS GOES WITH ANY FAITH KAREEM WHETHER IT'S ISLAM, CHRISTAINITY , BUDDHISM, ETC YOU'LL HAVE A FEW BELIEVERS WHO CHOOSE TO WORSHIP HALF HEARTED AND NOT FOLLOW THIER DOCTRINE IN IT'S ENTIRITY , IT'S NOT THE RELIGION PERSAY THAT'S AT A FAILURE BUT THAT PERSONS PERSONAL SPIRITUAL WALK THAT MIGHT BE A JEOPARDY OR AT QUESTION.

Will we now say that Jesus and the Christian way ain't working so now we need to develop a new strategy and religon or maybe ask that God send another son down to die?

Ofcourse not, almost sounds ridiculous don't it?

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INDEED THAT WOULD BE IDIOTIC REASONING !

Well then you must use the same logic with the Old Law...it wasn't the system that was in error but the people so why would God change the system and replaced it with another if the people will always remain sinful?

I'LL ATTEMPT TO EXPRESS WHY KAREEM ACTUALLY ROMANS 7 :6 AND EPHESIANS CHAPTER 2WOULD EXPLAIN IT MORE ACCURATELY AND CLEARLY.

God's raft against sin has been met in Jesus Christ. Hence Romans 6:14 "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace"...the law doesn't save you, we are saved through grace, the law just shows us where we are going wrong, grace comes in where you yourself can't keep the laws (i.e, the Iraelites)...so it's not taken away, Jesus just came to fulfill (to show how it should be carried out...how you can accomplish it).

Yes yes that's what PAUL said.....But JESUS said in Matthwe 5:17....

Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.

{{Kareem steps back and smiles...}}

blkrainbowfroNow...now WAIT A MINUTE!

Here you got Jesus saying ONE THING...but then Paul waits until he leaves...sneaks in the room...and tells you something entirely different!!!!!

Funny Jesus never mentioned some "grace period".

Jesus said you BETTER obey the law and you BETTER keep them up until heaven and earth pass!

MAKE A CLEAR REFERENCE OF SCRIPTURE HERE KAREEM, TO MANY TIMES PEOPLE READ THE SCRIPTURE AND DON'T TAKE THINGS IN IT'S ENTIRIETY. IF YOUR ADDRESSING THE SCRIPTURE I THINK YOU ARE THAT'S WHY I ENCOURAGE YOU TO MAKE SPECIFIC REF. JESUS WAS TALKING TO THE JEWS WHOM WERE TRYING TO ENTRAPP HIM IN HIS OWN WORDS IN SAYING THAT YOU CLAIM TO BE THE SON OF MAN AND THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW , THEN ARE YOU SAYING WE ARE NO LONGER BOUND BY IT , AND JESUS REPLY AT THAT POINT WAS THAT YOU ARE STILL TO BE OBIEDENT UNTO THE LAW BUT THAT IAM (MEANING JESUS) IS SIMPLY THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW AS LAID OUT IN MATTHEW 5:17.

Then to drive the point home...Jesus said that YOU AIN'T EVEN GETTING INTO HEAVEN UNLESS YOU DEEDS ARE BETTER THAN THE SCRIBES AND PHARISEES!!!!!!

As you can see, I may not be lettered but I'm well learned.

Karen Appleworthy:

BUT WHEN CHRIST CAME ON THE SCENCE THEY WERE NOW UNDER GRACE SO NOW THE NEED FOR CATTLE , LAMB SACRIFICES WERE NO LONGER NECEESSARY BECAUSE OF THE BLOOD OF CHRIST . ( HIM DYING ON THE CROSS AS AN ULTIMATE ATONMENT / SACRIFICE FOR THE PEOPLES SIN.
Now...can you provide me some scripture in Koran or even some scripture attributed to Jesus in the bible that shows him saying that sacrifices were no longer needed?

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AS YOU REQUESTED MY "KING KAREEM" (SMILES) blkhugTHE COMPLETE CHAPTER OF HEBREWS 9 AND HEBREWS 10 : 4-18 PARTICULARILY VERSES 4, 5, AND 8. STATES AS SUCH : BECUASE IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND GOATS TO TAKE AWAY SINS . SO BECUASE CHRIST CAME INTO THE WORLD SACRIFICE AND BURNT OFFERINGS IS NO LONGER DESIRED. ALTHOUGH THE LAW REQUIRED IT TO BE MADE JESUS SAYS THAT HERE IAM I HAVE TO DO YOUR WILL WE HAVE BEEN MADE HOLY THROUGH THE SACRIFICE OF THE BODY OF CHRIST ONCE AND FOR ALL. THERE ARE A FEW MORE BUT THESE SCRIPTURES ARE QUITE PRECISE .

Because the bible I read Deutoronomy Chapter 28 bounded the Children of Israel by an oath to obey these laws FOREVER or face a sever punishment.

KEY THING TO UNDERSTAND HEREWAS THIS NOT THE OLD TESTAMENT PRIOR TO JESUS COMING APON THEEARTH. ? NOW THAT JESUS IS ONTHE SCENCE THEY'RE BOUND BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST NOT BY THE OLD LAWS .AS MENTIONED IN SCRIPTURES I GAVE YOUREFERENCE TO. IN THE BOOK OF HEBREWS.

NOW THIS STATEMENT HAPPENS TO BE INCORRECT KAREEM PAUL DOES STATE IN SEVERAL AREAS IN THE BIBLE , BUT IAM GOING TO ONLY MENTION ONE IN ACTS 19: 4-5 PAUL SAYS " JOHN BAPTISM WAS ONE OF REPENTANCE , HE TOLD THE PEOPLE TO BELIEVE IN THE ONE COMING AFTER HIM THAT IS IN JESUS. SO HE CLEARLY STATES FOLLOW AND BELIEF IN JESUS. ALSO IN ACTS 21: 22-24 PAUL AGAIN EMPHASIZES HOWEVER I CONSIDER MY LIFE WORTH NOTHING TO ME , IF ONLY I MAY FINISH THE RACE AND COMPLETE THE TASK THE LORD JESUS HAS GIVEN ME - THE TASK OF TESTIFYING TO THE GOSPEL OF GOD'S GRACE. ONE NEEDS TO CLEARLY UNDERSTAND THE NEW TESTAMENT ONLY REDEFINES THE OLD , NONE TAKES THE PLACE OR SUPERCIDES THE OTHER THEY ARE TO BE FOLLOWED IN IT'S ENTIRITY AS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW ONE IS TO LIVE IF THEY'RE TO BE A CHRISTAIN.

I had a long day and I'm feeling a little lazy tonight so I'll give you the same example I gave Sassy....

You wouldn't mind reading a "used" example would ya baby???? blk2kiss

Jesus said--
verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven Matthew 5:17

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blkfingerwag WRONG QUOTE OF SCRIPTURE HERE KAREEM , MATTHEW 5 :17 DOESN'T STATE WHAT YOU HAVE MENTIONED UP ABOVE HERE MATTHEW 5 : 17 IS MAKING REFRENCE TO JESUS BEING THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW . PERHAPS YOU MENT TO MAKE REF. TO ANOTHER SCRIPTURE OF POINT.

But PAUL turned around and said--
Sin shall not have dominion over you for you are NOT under the law but under grace. Romans 6:14

So clearly Jesus is saying ONE THING and Paul is running around blkwriter lies and letters to the Romans and Greeks telling them something else.

PAUL IS STATING BECUASE OF CHRIST WE'RE UNDER GRACE ,AND NO LONGER BOUNDED BY THE LAW AS WAS BEFORE ROMANS 7 :6 . THEY WERERELEASED BY IT AND ARE NOW UNDER THE NEW COVENANT OF JESUS. ALSO AGAIN IN EPHESIANS CHP 2.

MAKE NO MISTAKE THERE IS OR WAS NEVER A CONTRADICTION OF STATEMENT BY PAUL IN REGUARDS TO JESUS THEIR TEACHINGS WERE ONE THAT WAS ON THE SAME PAGE AS THE OTHER. ULTIMATELY THE GOAL IS TO FOLLOW AND OBEY GOD !

Didn't Jesus freely mingle and try to help lost people like druckards, thieves, fornicators, and adulterers?

Then why did Paul say--
But I now write to you not to associate with anyone named a brother, if he is immoral, greedy, an idolater, a slanderer, a drunkard, or a robber, not even to eat with such a person Corinthians 5:11

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AGAIN KAREEM I CANNOT EMPHASIZE ENOUGH THE IMPORTANCE OF READING THINGS IN IT'S ENTIRETY , AND OBJECTIVELY , CASE AND POINT HERE IF YOU'D READ THOROUGHLY KAREEM YOU'D HAVE UNDERSTOOD TO WHOM PAUL WAS DIRECTING THIS TO AND MORE SO WHY ! IT WAS CONCERNING EXPELLING THE IMMORAL BROTHER. ( IE HYPOCRITES WHO PROFESS TO BE A FOLOWER OF CHRIST OR CHRISTIAN . LOOK CLOSELY blkpg AT VERSE 11 OF 1 CORINTHIANS 5:11-13 PAUL SAYS " BUT IAM NOW WRITTING YOU THAT YOU MUST NOT ASSOCIATE WITH ANYONE WHO CALLS HIMSELF A BROTHER BUT IS SEXUALLY IMMORAL OR GREEDY, AND IDOLATER, OR A SLANDER, A DRUNKARD OR A SWINDLER. THAT IS THE CORRECT TEXT OF SCRIPTURE .......HE FURTHER GOES ON TO SAY WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF HIM TO JUDGE OUTSIDE OF THE CHRUCH , PAUL HAD HIGHER STANDARDS FOR THE ONES WHO CALLED THEMSELVES BELIEVERS. NOT THAT ONE SHOULDN'T ASSOCIATE WITH THEM BUT IF YOU CALL YOURSELF A BELIEVER AND ARE ACTING IN THIS MANNER THEN WE'RE CHOOSING NOT TO ASSOCIATE WITH YOU. THIS WAS PAULS CHARGE AND REASONING . HE DID NOT WANT BELIEVERS TO ASSOICATE WITH THE IMMORAL BROTHER BECUASE HE FELT THAT IT WOULD ONLY PARCIPITATE THE SAME BEHAVIOR EVENTUALLY IN THE BELIEVERS , SO HE'D RATHER EXPEL THAT PERSON BEFORE THAT WERE TO HAPPEN, AND IN ESSENCE DESTROY THE UNIT OF THE CHRUCH AS A WHOLE.

Now Jesus DID..but Paul said DON'T..which one is correct?

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BOTH OF THEM WERE CORRECT IN THE MESSAGE THEY WERE TRYING TOCONVEY.........

SO THEY KEPT SINNING AND GOD KEPT FORGIVING THEM TILL EVENTUALLY GOD HAD SO MUCH COMPASSION AND MERCY HE SENT HIS SON DOWN AS AN ULTIMATE DISPLAY OF HIS LOVE AND COMPASSION APON HIS PEOPLE ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE (BIBLE) . THROUGH JESUS GOD HOPED THAT HIS CHOOSEN PEOPLE WOULD REPENT AND TURN TO CHRIST BUT THEY DID NOT ACCEPT HIM ( THE JEWS THAT IS) HE WAS THE CAPSTONE THAT WAS REJECTED

Now wait a minute baby !!!!!!

Do YOU believe that Jesus is God's son?

Also, do YOU believe that Jesus died for the sins of he world?

I'm anxious to hear your answers to these questions, very anxious.

Salaams Lovely..

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blkwriterIN RESPONSE TO THE QUESTIONS IN WHICH YOU'VE ASKED ME KAREEM , UNLIKE MOST MUSLIM WOMEN OF MY GENERATION AND BEING THAT I WAS ONCE A CHRISTAIN AND CONVERTED I HAVE ALOT OF DIFFRENT VIEWS IN REGUARDS TO ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY TO BE HONEST WITH YOU. IAM LEARNING NOT TO BE CLOSED OFF IN MY THINKING AND TO EXAMINE WHAT'S BEING SAID FURTHER MORE EXAMINE WHAT I READ.I DON'T BELIEVE ONE SHOULD GO INTO THEIR FAITH BLINDLY. THERE IS DEFINETLY ALOT OF THINGS I AGREE WITH IN BIBLE AS WELL AS THE QURAN AND THERE ARE SOMETHINGS I DON'T PARTICULARILY AGREE WITH FORM BOTH FAITHS AS WELL. I BELIEVE IN THE TRUTH WHICH IS GOD / ALLAH AND HIM ALONE AND HIS TEACHINGS . I MAKE NO DISTINCTION ONE OVER THE OTHER . I DO BELIEVE GOD SENT JESUS DOWN BECUASE IT WAS SO PROPHESED ABOUT IN THE TORAH . ( HIS COMING THAT IS ) BY THE PROPHET ISIAH. HIS PURPOSE AND DESTINY I ALSO TO BELIEVE IN WHICH WAS TO BRING PEACE , LOVE , AND REVERANT FEAR OF GOD AND KNOWLEDGE THEREOF HIM TO THE MASSES. I BELIEVE IN THE MESSAGE HE TRIED TO TEACH THE JEWS IN RELATION TOBEING OBEDIENT UNTOGOD ! THIS IS WHERE MY BELIEVES LYE MY BROTHA.

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KAREN, guyflag

Karen Applewhite · (#9 (**permalink**))

@ Kareem :

As much as i'd love to respond to you my dearKING Kareem , at this momenti must go work out for while and whip blkwhip things into shape but apon myreturni'lladdress all your points of concern , but i assure youi've read ALL you've written and i plan on giving my rebutle later , till then................... my wonderfully blessed Muslim Brotha !

KAREN. guyflag