French Authorities are proposing a ban on ALL religious headwear... - Page 2

Kunjufu · (#26 (**permalink**))

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LadyDay wrote:
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without upsetting people ..........surely if you move from one land where yoyur customs are the norm you will need to adjust into th enew society. the law from what i have heard and read about in france that they want to introduce is not just aimed at muslims for they want toban all religious wares from schools etc. material things do not make you religious.

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forum: There are I believea number of issues at play , however starting with Ladyday's input..whilst i understand where her perspective comes from, I strongly disagree..in the first instancepersonally I can think of no place that the European has been where they have assimulated into the host country..We only have toexamine the words Ex patriot community and observe its manifestation in the Carribean, in spain and Hong kong etc etc to see exactly what this means to the European.. So for meI do not followthe arguement that if I was either born here or came to live in Europe that it wouldnaturally follows that i should give up my identity and culture in favour of one imposed on me without choice, sorry i don't see that argument at all..

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It seems to me that what this is about is CONTROL, it is not about helping people to assimulate or creating a balanced or meritorial society..in fact i would argue that if this were to be made law that it would create an unbalanced society.. We know this because that is why the West said they Invaded Afghanistan, because the Taliban controlled the freedom of women (remember this) to express themselves, look what happened there!!

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It is clear to me that in what is essentially a Christian country there is no wayFrance are going to enforced or be allowed to enforce a crack down on Jewishness & Christian forms ofexpression to people really imagine that the Christians or Jews in America would sit still for such and outrage? Think again it won't happen.. I believe their (jews/Christian)inclusion in this measure by France is actually asmokescreen to cover up their thinly veiled assault on Muslim expression of religion.. On this point it seems only Mafdet, Karen & Hesaidappear to beaware of the implication.

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Someone wrotesomething to the effect of 'if we went to an Arab country would we be allowed to express ourselves there', the answer to this question is a resounding no, weprobably wouldn't. However that is NOT the point!!!The point as I already made clear in theThird paragraph is about control. This edict from France is dangerous presidence that if passed won't stop at religion nor will it stop within the confinesof religious expression, people really ought to wake up to the dangers here..first the repeal of the laws check & balances, then the introduction of ID cards, More powers to the security forces and now Controls on personal expression...is it me or does there seem to be a pattern here..

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How soon will it be before they outlaw Rap music as inciting crime, or Ragga for inciting homophobia..Already certain types of clothing are being frown upon or banned in certain shopping areas what next?

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I may not be fan of these types of music or the extreme forms of expression linked to the Muslim reglion.. However if we let France get away with such nastiness how long do people think it will be before they import these values into this and every other western country..

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We have already spoken on this and other forums about the effects of 9/11 and it seems to me one of the worst aspects of this event iswhat I have called the creeping fascism that is spreading Globally like a cancer.. The age of commonsense and diplomacy appears to be dead..long live the age of bruteforce, cohesion and oppression..

[quote][quote]We have people (non white people) locked up in Prisons in this country, America and Cuba without charge and effectively held in communicado, We have examples of anyone speaking out against the war or against Pres Bush, being subjected to MacCarthite types of oppression (think Dixy Chicks, think ex CIa agaent whose cover was blown by Administration.) Now we have our children being effectively being told that at an impressionable age that Islam (which btw is the biggest and most practised religion globally,) is not good or appropriate forms of expressions and this is reinforced by thestate...What is wrong with this picture i wonder?blkfingerwag

Karen Applewhite · (#27 (**permalink**))

@ KUNJUFU :

YOU ARE QUITE PERCISE WHEN YOU MENTIONED IT WILL NOT STOP HERE . IT'S SENDING OUT A TERRIBLE MESSAGE TO OURCHILDREN LIKE MY DAUGHTER WHO I ENCOURAGE TO WEAR THE BURKA.THE MESSAGE THAT THE GOVERMENT ISSENDING OUT IS A DEVASTATING ONE.IT'S GOING AGAINST THE GRAIN OF TEACHING WE'VE INSTILLED IN OUR CHILDREN FORM THEBEGINING, YOU'RE VERY MUCH ACCURATE WHEN YOU STATED IT BOILS DOWN TO CONTROL ! I HATE TO blkhideSEE WHAT'S LIABLE TO TRANSPIRE IF THIS ACTION WAS TO BE PASSED BY THE FRENCH GOVERMENT. FURTHER MORE HOW THIS IS BOUND TO AFFECT OTHER GOVERMENTS OR POWERS THAT BE GOING FORTH INTO THE LONG RUNHONESTLY I ONLY SEE A DOMINO AFFECT EVENTUALLY TRICKLING DOWN TO OTHER GOVERNING BODIESAND THAT CERTAINLY IS NOT GOOD FOR THE STATE OF MUSLIMS AROUND THE WORLD TODAY.

KAREN. guyflag

LadyDay · (#28 (**permalink**))

@kunjufu...........i understand your point. and many others on the board. the question is if indeed its about control what are they trying to control. afterall france did not support americas war. does anyone know of any conflict within the school system or do they fear without such measures their people will choose racist to govern the land. any good sites to read up on this would be apprecitated.............

Kunjufu · (#29 (**permalink**))

You write to the french Embassy for a start, telling them how outraged and disgusted you are about this policy..when a Demo is advertised you march..and go from there...

OriginalBM · (#30 (**permalink**))

OriginalBM · (#31 (**permalink**))

Bismllaah Salaam, All. Just as an update, I'am adding the following url's:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3406969.stm

The following is a conroversial argument it would seem, as some Muslim Women do not accept it in total:

http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/509

Salaam. OriginalBM

OriginalBM · (#32 (**permalink**))

Bismillaah Salaam, STRAWBERRY, in regards to good deeds, I believe I had explained this to you on another thread. Well, maybe I did not explain it well enough. Any good deed that is done is compensated in kind, or with good. Any evil deed thatis done is compensated in kind, or evil willreturn to the doer of the evil, andafflict them.

If the Muslim Women, wear "headscarfs" it is their right and privilege to do so.
I am certain that you would not like to be forced to wear clothing thatyou do not approve of.

Your other statement(s) is not clear. If you wish to haveme comment, on it, then pleaseclarify it. Salaam. OriginalBM

LadyDay · (#33 (**permalink**))

i am sure that i read that this has now been passed as a law and the french authoristies have said that if beards are used as religious symbols than they will need to banned. too. i wonder if france has any faith schools privately funded to compensate for this. any french peeps can answer

OriginalBM · (#34 (**permalink**))

Bismillaah Salaam, All. "It ain't over 'til it's over" one old adage say's [re: baseball ], so I thought to post the latest update(s) on the growing controversy: [If you are thinking about orplanning a trip to France, write to the french embassy, consulate, nearest to you,to let them know that you willnot visit France, if the "headscarf" issue is approved by the upper house, next month].

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3478895.stm

http://www.counterpunch.org/eltantawi02162004.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3482641.stm

The following url may or may not be working today;

http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?o...7ADBB2B046F3D9

Salaam. OriginalBM

Lexi · (#35 (**permalink**))

So if there is NO COMMAND frm allah then y r muslims so hell bend on wearing it? DONT CHAT ABOUT-'ITS A BREECH OF RELIGIOUS RIGHTS'. How can it be when its not religious=not in the quran. I think its an outer identity thing.By wearin the hijab people will know that ur muslim.Not sayin that u shouldnt let people know but let it be because of ur behaviour and lifestyle.

MARTIN LUTHER KING said he had a dream that people will be judged on the content of their heart not the exterior(outside).Re-inforce that and let go of materialistic things.I know that if u go 2heaven (which if u stay muslim i dont believe u will-but who am i 2 judge) u wont need ur hijab,u can't take it with u when u die.How does it help u be a good muslim? surely its what in ur heart.

If muslims know in their heart who they are in allah then why limit themselves to wear cloths,hijabs etc

Its not like the Sikhs and Rasta who hv long hair-they wear a tuban because it is the popular an easier way to tie up their hair.Even the sikh youths are starting to tie up their hair with bobbles and bandanas.They still know their are sihk-they stand firm in their believe.At the end of the day i just hope that women wear the hijab because they want to-
NOT because sick men cant stop thinking about SEX-IS THAT WHY THEY SET UP ALL GIRL MUSLIM SCHOOLS,Hv SESSION AT THE SWIMMING BATHS FOR MUSLIM WOMEN ONLY?

NOT because their familiy said they hv2 and if they dont its a shame on the familiy.

The female body is the creation of GOD we were fearfully and wonderfully made with Gods own hand.

God Bless every1

Lexi · (#36 (**permalink**))

BLACK MAN X wrote:

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FIRST I CONVERT TO ISLAM MANY YEARS AGO.
I AM SICK OF THIS SORT OF FORUM TOPIC'S.
FIRST OF ALL LET ME SAY, THIS IS A ATTACK ON MUSLIMS.
I DONT CARE WHAT OTHERS SAY SPECIALLY NON-MUSLIMS,
AND TO THE BLACK PEOPLE IN HERE.
MOST OF YOU HAVE NO REALIGION BELEIVES.
YOU CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIAN, BUT THE TRUTH IS THE MAJOR ARE SECULAR JUST LIKE THE FRENCH.
IS LIKE MY FRIEND SAID LONG TIME AÂ* AGO "MAY ALLAH REST HIS SOUL".
HE SAID "THE BLACK MAN, MOSTLY THE WEST INDIES & AFRO AMERICAN ARE LOST, BECAUSE THEY GOT TAKEN AWAY BY WHITE PEOPLE, THEN THEY WERE FORCE TO ADOPT, THE WHITE MEN CULTURE, THE WHITE MEN'S NAME AND WORST OF ALL AFTER ALL THAT THE WHITE MEN TOLD THEM THAT CRISTIANITY IS A RELIGION WHICH DOES NOT RECONIZE'S RACISM."
BUT ME I RELIZED ALL THAT, AND THAT IS WHY I DECIDE TO BECOME SUNNI MUSLIM, NOT BY FORCE, AND I CHANGED MY NAME.
THE BIBLE HAS BEING CHANGED SO MANY TIMES BY EVERY COLOURED FOLK, EVEN BLACK MEN.
SO WHY MUST I FOLLOW A MAN RECITATION, WHILE I COULD FOLLOW ALLAH(SWT) CITATION.
YOU SEE THE QURAN HAS NEVER BEING CHANGED THAT IS WHY ITS THE OLD'S BOOK IN HISTORY.
AND IF THE FRENCH WHERE PRO-CHRISTIAN THEY WOULD ACCEPT OTHER PEOPLES BELIEVES AND CUSTOMS.
BUT THE FACT IS THIS PEOPLE WHO HAVE HIGH PLACE'S IN COUNTRIES IN THE WEST ARE ATHEIST.
THEY PRACTICE FREE-MASONARY.
BUSH, BLAIR, CHIRAC AND SEVERAL OTHERÂ*EVIL LEADERS.
LIKE BUSH STATED "YOU EITHER WITH US OR AGAINST US?"
WELL AM AGAINST THIS GUYS.
AND WHILE I LIVE UNDER THERE LAW I WILL ABIDE IT. BUT I WILL CONTINUE TO BE PROPAGANDIST ALL IN THE NAME OF ISLAM.
LIKE THEY SAY STAND UP FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN.
THEY SAY "BAN THE HIJAB"
WHO ARE YOU TO LISTEN TO? THE FRENCH OR ALLAH........ REMEMBER THE CREATER IS TESTING US IF WE ARE TRUE MUSLIMS, IF YOU AINT THEN YOU ARE THE ONCE WHO GIVE UP EASILY.
WHEN THIS GUYS COME TO OUR COUNTRIES THEY DRINK ALCOHALÂ*AND DONT WEAR HIJAB MOSTLY IN SOME ISLAMIC STATES.
BUT WE DONT TROUBLE THEM, APART FROM THE VIEW MISUNDERSTANDING MUSLIMS WHO BOMB THEM.
THAT IS BECAUSE THE MUSLIM LEADERS HAVE FAIL THEM.
Â*

Â*

offtopic.gifofftopic.gif READ!!READ! READ!!
My brother if the forum topics make u sick then COME OFF !!! AN NO BODDA GOH BK PON IT.

This not an attack on muslims coz ur allah neva told y'all to wear the hijab.im sure if u were naked and a devote muslim then allah(i hope 4 ur sake)would love u.U believe it is he that made so he would love his creation.

Allah has to rest his soul(is this an implication that he is dead-SOUND LIKE THE WRITINGS ON A GRAVE STONE).Its like u are giving ur god human characteristics. God is a spirit being SUPERIOR TO HUMANS-GOD IS PERFECTION.Humans hv spirit,soul and flesh.God Connects with us through the spirit.

The Quran has also been changed several times-its gone through many tranlations.REMEMBER-Y'all said that Mohammad wias illitarate and that the quran was revealled to him.BUT HOW CAN AN ILLITERATE MAN WRITE THE QURAN? Obviously he had to get some on to write it for him.That person could have writen their own interpretation of what Mo said.He could have written his own ideals- Mo could not read so he would hav been none the wiser (it does explain the lack of chronological order)offtopic.gif

There are many books older than the quran-the quran come bout approx 1400 yrs ago.The greek and romans writers had books b4 the quran was thought of.

why r u in2 propagander? Your just as bad as the government.Why try to influence and brainwash people? WHAT HAPPEN TO LIBERTY? I hv noticed islam doenst teach much bout freedom.
once again i have to educate u in ur own religion THE QURAN SAY JACK ABOUT WEARIN HIJABS-MANKIND TOLD U TO AND U SAID AMEN(AGREED-mussi greed fi true.....hmm A GREED.. YES)

God Bless.
ps i hope ur not offende by what i said i was just excersing the God given right to express my views