Sorry to have to reply a second time, but just noticed some of the other village members posts and felt to reply to some.

@Locsgirl

I see what your saying in terms of the donkey remarks and i did draw the image in my head also, and it is quite laughable blkafrobut what you say about Priest's in india able to do things that Jesus did, I don't doubt for a second, but I don't know if you know me by now, but I have a counter to that argument. When God sent Moses before Pharoah. Moses through the power of God turned his rod into a serpent. What did Pahroah's magicians do ? they turned their rods into serpents too. Now the difference ? The rod of God swallowed up the magicians serpents.

Apostle Paul tells us that the devil is able to transform himself into an angel of light. So in the spiritual realm one must be careful and sensitive to the things that are of God and the things which are not.

Yes these men carry out feat's that may parallel with Jesus, but now ask yourself to the Glory of who ?. Jesus was not here to play magician, but to show man his inherent capabilities through God.

Which leads me unto OriginalBM:

If the Koran is right, then there are a lot of things wrong with not just the bible but the prophets that went before.

Jesus said he came into this world to suffer and die, this was his ultimate purpose. This word is in agreement with the Prophet Isaiah, who said "He was bruised for our iniquity, cut off before his time.... Isaiah goes in depth.

So now tell me why I should believe the words of a conflicting prophet (Mohammed) outside of that of Jesus and Isaiah which agree, and yet were borns probably thousand year(s) apart ?

@FredBlack & Ijexa - got some questions but I have to run, so will come back to you.

@Ceecee

You make me want to go and watch it the more, even though Ijexa and FredBlack are making some sense still.

Like I said, I have questions. brb

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim Salaam, All. Justavoice, you said: >>

Which leads me unto OriginalBM: >>

If the Koran is right, then there are a lot of things wrong with not just the bible but the prophets that went before.

Jesus said he came into this world to suffer and die, this was his ultimate purpose. This word is in agreement with the Prophet Isaiah, who said "He was bruised for our iniquity, cut off before his time.... Isaiah goes in depth. <<

Yes. Isaiah, PBUH, does go into much depth in chapter 53. But, it is important to understand the meaning and purpose of a 'savior'. A savior, brings an uplifting message from THE GOD, Allaah, The Most Merciful. The purpose of the message is to renew the minds of the servants, of THE GOD,"saving" them thereby through HIS, Grace. The "Light" that the savior brings mayalsomanifestas 'advanced thinking', in the world.

Being killed or crucified, would have served no intelligent purpose. Yes, thefaithless wanted Him killed, but, this was not THE GOD'S, Will.

Again, I must stress understanding,the underlying meaning of the parables, in the Bible. They tell a different story, entirely.

>>Jesus said he came into this world to suffer and die, this was his ultimate purpose. <<

This Is the world of suffering and death. People, repeatedly enter this world, and engage [enter into]pain, disease, and death. All, here must suffer, to some degree of capacity.


>>So now tell me why I should believe the words of a conflicting prophet (Mohammed) outside of that of Jesus and Isaiah which agree, and yet were borns probably thousand year(s) apart ? <<


There isNo conflict in the words given to The Prophet Muhammad, PBUH. The Words of AL-Qur'aan, are from The Guide To The Right Path, The First, The Last, The Hidden, The Manifest, The Sovereign {KING}, The Originator, The Patient. Salaam. OriginalBM

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim Salaam, All. LifeChemist, you said: >>

>> It also goes on to say feet like fine brass like burnt in an oven. Fine brass. Now brass is a compound metal from 50% copper which is dark reddish brown and zinc which is a greenish tint. Ok now burnt in an oven you get a very dark brown color again he looked like or had features of an African or African descent. <<

Thanks for this clarification. I had mentioned [on another R & Sthread]a vision that I had [ofThe Christ],some years ago. I noticed His feet, as He, was walking. I can understand a little better now, what I saw. Salaam. OriginalBM

original bm...........ijust wanted to add to what justavoice was saying. Jesus died but he rose again, something which mohammed has not. Jesus is in heaven with Father God, the Holy spirit is on earth with us untill we are reunited with God

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim Salaam, All. LadyDay, wrote: >>

original bm...........ijust wanted to add to what justavoice was saying. Jesus died but he rose again, something which mohammed has not. Jesus is in heaven with Father God, the Holy spirit is on earth with us untill we are reunited with God

It would help to understand this point if a mystical study, is undertaken. Mystically, this world is considered the death world. This is because people here, willdie when theterm given them by Allaah, The Compassionate, The Merciful, has expired.

Keeping this in mind, we are not the animal (flesh) body, we dwell within this animal body, for a term. When we have completed the work of THE GOD, to "Perfection" we are then resurrected. We are given a new Spirit Body [Solar] and we will live in the Spirit World permanently. There is then no need to return to the "Death" world.

My understanding is, that both Jesus, and Muhammad, may the blessings and Peace, of The Almighty, be upon them, are in the heaven. The Arch Angel Gabriel, Peace be upon Him, brings the Holy Spirit, to those that are doing the work of THE GOD, The High Exalted. Salaam. OriginalBM

@OriginalBM

Lets look at some differences between the Prophet Mohammed and Prophets of the bible.

Mohammed was not born of the promised line of God.
Moses born to Isaac son of Abraham, said "A Prophet like unto me will rise up in the midst of your brethren, he will be liken unto me".

Moses was addressing the Children of Israel.

Mohammed rose up out of the stock of Ishmael and not the line from which Moses came. So he was no brethren unto Moses. Though both their roots run back to Abraham, one is not the brethren of the promise line.

Now Jesus, was born amongst the people of Israel, of the stock of Judah. Now Jesus was like unto Moses, because he brought in the dispensation called GRACE. Moses brought the LAW. So now we see when Moses says a prophet like unto me.. We can see Jesus. However still I cannot see where Mohammed comes in.

Another thing common to the prophets of Israel. All would have seen or been involved with sacrfice. Sacrifices of Bullocks and turtle doves etc...

Maybe you can tell me OriginalBM, do muslims carry out sacrifices of any kind. If they do, can you tell me why ?

If they don't, tell me, how is it that the prophets that came before Jesus knew of the sacrifices, and passovers and Sabbath's that they had to keep, but then this Mohammed comes from a different line observing none of these ?.

Do you believe in atonement ?

You said: Being killed or crucified, would have served no intelligent purpose. Yes, the faithless wanted Him killed, but, this was not THE GOD'S, Will.

If you understand the sacrifices that the children of Israel had to observe, then you will understand that it was necessary for Jesus to be crucified.

John the baptist did not call him the LAMB OF GOD for nothing. Jesus was to be the ultimate sacrificial lamb. He did what the slaughtering of generations of lambs and bullocks could not do for man one time.

@OriginalBM

Note "The Stone" Which the builders rejected. The stone is singular. Islam is a people not a singular person or thing.

Jesus was the stone the builders rejected. He was the one whom all the laws of Moses testified was to come. Yet when he came the builders (High Priests) who were the protectors of the Law rejected him.

When Jesus told Israel that God was able to raise up the rocks to be children unto Abraham, in away he prophetically was showing the church, a Gentile people.

But note, he said rocks (Plural) more than one.
Jesus is that stone.. This also came from a parable when they built the Temple in Jerusalem, the tried and tested corner stone, they could not find a stone that would weather or keep up the Temple, that was strong enough. However there was a stone that the builders put aside, and while they continued the work, this stone sat there through all weathers and all that went on. Thus this became a representation of Jesus.. The stone that would weather all things that would be the foundation of the true temple.

In my Fathers house are many mansions - this is the true temple of God, but you must work out the house to which Jesus speaks ?.

Let me give you an hint, Jesus is the door ? because he said "I AM" the door.

When Moses asked who shall I tell the people when they ask who sent me... The voice from beyond the burning bush" said "I AM THAT I AM", tell them "I AM" as sent you.

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim Salaam, All. Replying to Justavoice: >>

@OriginalBM >>

Note "The Stone" Which the builders rejected. The stone is singular. Islam is a people not a singular person or thing. <<

"The Stone, that the builders rejectedis the "philosopher's stone," presently aform of [epistemonic] high "Spiritual" development / refinement, capability [potentiality]."
See "Reincarnation In The New Testament" by author James M. Pryse, page 77.


>>Jesus was the stone the builders rejected. He was the one whom all the laws of Moses testified was to come. Yet when he came the builders (High Priests) who were the protectors of the Law rejected him. <<

"He, Isa, PBUH had the required knowledge and wisdom, necessary to train the builders, who seem to have been unlearned, [or, uninitiated] at that point. It appears as though the builders had little or no understanding of the teachings [John 3:10] that Isa, PBUH would have bestowed upon them. And thisperhaps, wasdue to theirnot having understood, or having rejected, the teachings of previous teachers." [Joseph, husband of Mariam, Mother of Jesus [PBUT]is said to have been one ofthe"Builders." Some indication of this can be found in "The Forbidden Gospels and Epistles" (suppressed gospels and epistles, of the original New Testament)See also,the works of author James Morgan Pryse].

Matthew 5:20; For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


>>When Jesus told Israel that God was able to raise up the rocks to be children unto Abraham, in away he prophetically was showing the church, a Gentile people.<<



"The rocks, being referred to are individuals whom are already knowledgeable, highly refined, capable, perhaps High Initiates; ready, able, to attain to still higher knowledge."



http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site....laringomission

I almost forgot this glaring omission. I apologize.

Also, see: http://answering-islam.org/Debates/D...tml#opendeedat

Salaam. OriginalBM

@Thread
I've heard the hype, I've seen the movie but I have to say I was disappointed in some respects.

I believe that a very Roman Catholic idea of Jesus was being presented to the audience, one that centred around Mary so much so, that in certain parts Mel was careful to show that old image we see in books, where the baby Jesus is in Mary's arm. I kept seeing subliminally Mary Mother of God. However and this is where Islam becomes confused and the Jews, does God have a mother ?, and if he did, hisn't she then God, as she would be his originator. It does not go like that.

The violent imagery was to be expected and yet if I had made the film, trust me, I think I have in my own mind a more horrifying depicition. I do believe Mel in the film though captured the madness of that day, how the people were over shadowed by dark spirits driving them to deny the light.

Now let me tell you where I switched off in the movie.. Yes the argument Jesus was not dark enough, but I was prepared to overlook that and watch the film. However when I saw how light the Ethiopian man who bare the cross with Christ was, then the Roman turning to the Ethiopian and saying Jew. Anyone that did not understand what had happened that moment, who does not have knowledge of the bible would believe another Israelite was helping Jesus carry the cross.

Holly Wood would not even allow the Ethiopian to be a black man, because the image it would present would cause us to ask questions. Did the man that shouldered the burden through the streets along with Jesus, carried the cross alongside the Son of the Living God, took it to the hill of Golgotha, was this a black man ? What was the interaction really at this point tbetween the man Jesus and the Ethiopian ?.

I was disgusted at the movie, a friend with me, could not believe either that this was the Ethiopian, saying he seemed more Latino.

Leave them, in the words of Jesus, "They know not what they do" . or do they ?

One wrote on this forum that Christians did not make this movie, and I did reply saying almost that it did not matter, in some ways I take back what I said there, I believe a born again Christian would not have made this movie like that, in myself though I am no movie writer or critique or Director, still I saw more scope for this movie. I thought they made Jesus seem to dependant on Mary, Jesus was a man who by the time he had settled it in Gethsemane, that he was going to die the way it was written, was not hanging unto Mary as this film suggested saying mother I make things new. He was as the Apostle Paul called him the Lord of Glory. He was relinquishing all things that tied him to this earth. Hence if you watch where he was on the cross and he tells Mary behold your Son, and he tells John behold your mother. Jesus was in essence saying I going back as I was God of all things, who as no mother no father, who is self existant. I think the film missed out on lot of things that could have been explained.

Justavoice wrote: justavoice: firstly can I say that you wrote a first class review of the film thank you... however a question on the issue of the Ethopian....Are you saying that colour depiction/imagery does matter..if so why..?

If the idea is to tell the story of jesus's suffering for mankind..does it matter whether Hollywood depicts the Ethopian as Black, Latino or White..?