and allah did not come in the form of jibreel (gabrial). jibreel was the divine messenger who first brought the message to prophet muhammad (pbuh), alla was the author of that message.

"jibreel was the divine messenger who first brought the message to prophet muhammad (pbuh), alla was the author of that message."

EXACTLY!! Exactly My Point!! Muhammad was not the Messenger of "Jabril", but the Messenger of ALLAH, even though it was JABRIL who Brought the Message!!

Now ask yourself THIS...

Why is it that the Hon. Elijah Muhammad NEVER ONCE referred to himself as the Messenger of "Master Fard Muhammad"??

Think over that very carefully.

Please revisit point #12 of "What the Muslims Believe".

Salaam.

RM

also it is a misconception that muslims follow prophet muhammad (pbuh), they follow what was revealled to him and his example and what he taught in the context of submitting ones will to allah which was based on revelation to him.

farkhan can not truly state this status and therefore you cannot say what he tells you is not corrupt. as you refer to the unworthyness of flesh, you follow man which is flesh in the form of elijah, fard and faracon so are their words not unworthy as they have received no direct revelation and have not been purged of evil deeds and sin, how ever you follow them. i refer to farakan as a con as he will dispute all of this and make you believe he is right and to follow him and his ideas and interpretations, just as elijah done even though he had no authority and could not prove no authority for doing so and the only word of god he could prove was written in the quran which was not revealed to him and contradicts that he or this master fard or any new word the aspire to is any part of islam or that they are being truthfull. this is logical straight fact.

actually you said "Allah came to the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) "in the Person" of Jabril, who Brought the Revelation"

and in you other point "12. WE BELIEVE that Allah(God) appeared in the Person of Master W. Fard Muhammad, July, 1930; the long-awaited "Messiah" of the Christians and the "Mahdi" of the Muslims."


i say again, allah did not come in the form of jibreel (gabrial). jibreel was the divine messenger who first brought the message to prophet muhammad (pbuh), allah was the author of that message. therefore allah was not inside gibreel, also it is shirk as you state to partner allah to anyone including man, also to say he enter the creation which you have already stated as corrupt. since the time of adam, allah has spoken to man.

im still waiting for you to tell me why you worship man and their words when the quran has told you the final prophet and final revelation has already come and islam has already been perfected. what do you say to this as it can only be interpreted one way, as it was written. in the meantime consider the below. also points made before on the shahada also how you bear witness to one thing but then do another, and also your ignoring of the fact that elijah own son broke away from him as did malcolm x after realising that elijah was deceiving them or telling them falsehoods after they followed ISLAM and foung the the nation was contradicting it and the quran it had been based upon.

"and whoever seeks a religion other than islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the hereafter he will be one of the losers." [al imran 3:85]

"you do not worship besides him but only names which you have named (forged), you and your fathers, for which alllah has sent down no authority. the command is for none but allah, he has commanded that you worship none but him, that is the (true) straight religion, but most men know not" [yusuf 12:40]

"also it is a misconception that muslims follow prophet muhammad (pbuh), they follow what was revealled to him and his example and what he taught in the context of submitting ones will to allah which was based on revelation to him."

Isn't that what "following" means...to follow one's EXAMPLE? How can you follow the example of a Man whom you cannot see? All you are doing is following your interpretation of what the Scholars say the Prophet did or said.

It is obvious thatMOST of the Muslim world is NOT following the Prophet's EXAMPLE, becauseProphet Muhammad (PBUH) NEVER said, "call yourself sunni...or shia...or ahmaddiya..." yet, look at all of theseMuslims who are doing JUST THAT. Most ofthe Muslim worldhas deviated from the Path. For that matter, most of the RELIGIOUS world has deviated from the Path of God. Jesus never said, "be baptist, or pentacostal, or apostolic." For that matter, he never said "be Christian". He simply said, "follow me." Iblis (Satan) has certainly kept his word..."I willmake all of them deviate, except thy Purified ones." Or, from the Biblical perspective, the "dragon" has indeed deceived the "whole world"...including the "world" of religion.

The moment you tell me, "I amsunni", or "I am shia", or "I am Baptist", or "I am Methodist," ...at that moment I know I cannot follow you, lest you lead me into deviation with you. I follow the Sunna, but I will never call myself "sunni". I follow the Sharia, but I will never call myself Shia. I am MUSLIM. Nothing more, nothing less.

"...as you refer to the unworthyness of flesh, you follow man which is flesh in the form of elijah, fard and faracon...so are their words not unworthy as they have received no direct revelation and have not been purged of evil deeds and sin, how ever you follow them. i refer to farakan as a con as he will dispute all of this and make you believe he is right and to follow him and his ideas and interpretations, just as elijah done even though he had no authority and could not prove no authority for doing so and the only word of god he could prove was written in the quran which was not revealed to him and contradicts that he or this master fard or any new word the aspire to is any part of islam or that they are being truthfull. this is logical straight fact."

I said the flesh is not worthy to be WORSHIPPED.But Man will always follow Man, as he cannot follow otherthan man. If you will look to the bottom of this message, you will see your words in the Holy Qur'an, denying the notion that Allah would reveal anything to a mortal. Interesting.

If the Hon. Elijah Muhammad and the Hon. Louis Farrakhan have no "Authority", or Divine Backing, then why are they, even now, so successful? A Nation of Islam has been established in the MIDST of the Greatest ENEMY of Islam - the United States of America. The Honorable Louis Farrakhan is recognized and LOVED the world over as a CHAMPION for the Cause of Islam, so much so that the sheiks and muftis have called him "imam". How is this possible if not by the Grace and Backing of Allah?

Your pride and mockery only hurt yourself. It certainly is not hurting me, and DEFINITELY is not hurting Minister Farrakhan or the Success that Allah is Blessing him with.

Surah 17

M. Muhammad Ali
94) And nothing prevents people from believing, when the guidance comes to them, except that they say: Has Allah raised up a mortal to be a messenger?
95) Say: Had there been in the earth angels walking about secure, We would have sent down to them from the heaven an angel as messenger.

YUSUFALI:
94) What kept men back from belief when Guidance came to them, was nothing but this: they said, "Has Allah sent a man (like us) to be (His) Messenger?"
95) Say, "If there were settled, on earth, angels walking about in peace and quiet, We should certainly have sent them down from the heavens an angel for a messenger."

PICKTHAL:
94) And naught prevented mankind from believing when the guidance came unto them save that they said: Hath Allah sent a mortal as (His) messenger?
95) Say: If there were in the earth angels walking secure, We had sent down for them from heaven an angel as messenger.

SHAKIR:
94) And nothing prevented people from believing when the guidance came to them except that they said: What! has Allah raised up a mortal to be a messenger?
95) Say: Had there been in the earth angels walking about as settlers, We would certainly have sent down to them from the heaven an angel as a messenger.

But because we are MEN, Allah will always send us a MAN...to FOLLOW...not to WORSHIP.

If you wish to REASON with me over this point or that point, I welcome that. But if all you want is to argue and make mockery, then perhaps it is best that I leave you alone.

Salaam.

bismillah ramanhir raheem

you still answer no points made but provide speeches.

you seem to miss the difference between following the example of a prophet based on revelation, in comparison to following the example of man such as farakahn, elijah muhammed whos ways cannot be fully backed up, correlated and consistantly compared with the revelation itself. as you say yourself, you dont follow the man you follow the sunnah, but then you say you follow farakan, fard,and elijah muhammed

i wonder where you follow the shariah as it is not implemented properly as any countries system including saudi araibia. i also wonder how you so easily ignore previous points and say you are a muslim meaning one who submits his will to allah, when you blatently contradict the fact that the final revelation, final prophet, and perfection of islam happened 1400 years ago and the fact that it was named islam. if you deny this then you are denyingg the revalation and word of allah.

you also consider farakhan and elijah muhhamad to be truthful and good based on the fact that they are successful, this means nothing and is no proof. dont you read the quran and know that allah says that many people will be successfull in this life and also create and twist the word of allah, but they are wicked men and will be sent to the hellfire in the next life. it will also tell us that many of such men will be followed by man and many will divert from the truth of allah to follow them, this does not make them good.

you refer to others not following islam but the point is that you do not, you follow the nation of islam, which has totally different basic concepts and contradicts the basic concepts of islam. the different groupings within islam are but different though representations on specific matters, but they still do not contradict islamand they follow the 5 pillars of islam, and they follow the quran without contradiction. you cannot compare youself to these, and why have you not referred to the world community of islam, as the world is a community of islam and denounces the Nation of islam, elijah muhammad, master fard, and louis farakhan. their words were good to bring the black man out of bondage in america, but that time has passed which is why many are leaving as people no longer want to hear that the white mans the devil literally, and realise the contradictions with islam which is where all your religious stuff was taken from even though it tells you that elijah cannot be a prophet, fard cannot be god, and islam was perfected 1400 years ago therefore no need for the additions into it from your leaders which is also a contradiction with the quran.

as you know surah 17 al isra 94-95 tells use that manwas sent prophets from amongst his brethren, but this ended with prophet muhammed (pbuh) who was the seal of the prophets (al ahzab 33:40) and the message he received was the final message to mankind and perfected the religion which was ISLAM for all mankind and whoever seeks another religion other than islam it will never by accepted of him. these words nation of islam contradicts and ignores, but still use the quran as their holy book, another contradiction. it is therfore a contradiction and mockery unto itself, and you are the argumentative one as you argue to avoid proving points or realising truth.

i say for the last time OPEN YOUR EYES.

@Muslimah. Hmmm. I would agree with you that theologically the Nation Of Islam's theology is a hotch potch of inconsistent ideas and some which is surely drug induced eg talk about Fard, space ships and all that foolishness constructed to snare the ignorant and needy.

The politics of the Nation of Islam is far more sounder given its nationalist and separatist fundamentals. Black people controlling all aspects of their lives is not a debatable matter to me, and hence my general support and sympathy to those who articulate such views; and more importantly develop concrete programme on that basis. The model of eadership of the NOI and its ethos which is negative and disempowering in many ways etc is quite backward and self serving.

But as your post indicates this is not really about the NOI but more about promoting Islam. Arab Islam is the religion of the enemy and almost anywhere in Africa you find it it will be at the detrminet of Africans. I am aware that Bilal and other Africans have been fundamental to the origins and evolution of Islam. Tis a pity they never impressed that on their camel riding Arab pervert friends.

I could cite hundreds of references on the destructive effects of this dirty Arab religion on our people but one will do. Read "Two Thousand Seasons" by Ayi Kwe Armah and what he says about the predators from the east and their contempt for any thing black.

Nuff said.

Fred

[FREDBLACK] "Arab Islam is the religion of the enemy and almost anywhere in Africa you find it it will be at the detrminet of Africans"

.... so then, youve beenALL over africa to witness this, and you speak forALL africans!! I'd like to hear your "dirty" references too.

@Chinkke. Two points. One, I don't have to have visited all of Africa or even have to have direct experience of something to know about something with authority. Direct experience does not suggest people actually have good understanding of what they are experiencing.

If you do not know how Islam got into Africa, I suggest it is you who are ignorant as most people one would presume know that without any need for complex details. Why African/black Muslims use Arabic as the lingua franca, should tell you something.

May I suggest you read the book I mentioned as providing you with a definitive list I don't think is going to be much use to you. Don't you know anything about the Arab incursion and its spread of Islam and how it went about converting people? Me thinks you have plenty to read.


By the way who said I was speaking for everyone. Not me. But I know I speak for many who know about how this Arab stain has been inflicted on our people. Have you never heard of Sudan or Nigeria? Probably not.


Fredconfused2

so then, you cant speak for all africans as you have no experiance of it and your information comes from a book, 1 book... i thought so, as you ignore the fact that there is over a billion muslims in the world and many of them live in or originate from AFRICA and are happy to be muslims and this includes people in sudan and nigeria.

you fail to realise that the religion of islam was being followed all over africa and asia before the revelation was revealed to the arab race in 611ad, and is known as the religion god gave to adam, which were in some places later called judaism after the tribe of judah, and christianity after christ. islam merely means submission of ones will to god, which is what all the prophets and rightous people of the world have done since the beginning of mankind. as this practice was corrupted over time, it was re-expressed with the revelation of the quran to the arab race which was for all mankind and then spread throughout the world because much of the world was corrupt and needed to be purified of uncleanliness and creation worship, which is why even the bible itself refers to the israelites as a corrupt people that had become unholy and would be destroyed by god (ezekiel 22).

it is you that needs to expand your reading, and i still await your "dirty" references.

@Chinkkie. Excuse me friend. Who told you all my knowledge of Islam comes from books and furthermore what is there to say the books are incorrect? What about the radio,television and speaking to or meeting people.What about books, particularly when written by people with intimate experience of the thing in question. My friend, I have good freinds and contacts in many parts of the black/African world who are Muslims, [bornMuslims]and my one of my closest buddies was born a Muslim and renounced it,because of the destructive effects of Islam in countries like Senegal to mention but one.

By the way I have never seen Muslims eg Syrians and their ilk and the mess they are spreading in the Caribbean? You friend need to travel, study and broaden your horizons me thinks.

By the way who said I was ignorant of millions of quietly and passively acceptors of Islam. Indoctrinated and defeated people are inclined to accept many things quietly including the Arab's relligion. If the Nation Of Islam can get people to believe passionately in flying saucers and that Arab Fard, what make you think If I had the power and the degree of violence and wickedness those Arabs imposed on our people, they would not believe anything I could conjur up. Forced conversations were the most popular forms of spreading Islam in Africa my friend, in the same way Jews used forced conversions against our people in the Caribbean.

Who said Iwas not familiar with theAfrican influence on Islam. DidI not mentionBillal and if I really cared for this religion I would go in further depth, but I don't and to be honest I rarely enter religious discussions and have so only because this thread isslightly deceptive and is not about the Nation Of Islam at all, but worshiping the Arab's relgion. Heyfriend if you claim there is any connection betweenAfrican Islam and its practices why do you speak the Arabs langauge and not yourown as I have already mentioned? Because what you are promoting isyour Arab master's ideology.

What did god say to you Africans practicisng yourbeliefsthat it would only h