i ask this because clearly there are many followers of different branches of christianity here. when you was taken from africa during slavery was this your religion and did you worship in this way.

when your ancestors reached america, carrabean and europe you was given this religion or forced to follow this religion. missionaries then brought this religion back from europe and america to help the spread of colonialism. you know this so why do you follow this religion that was manipulated and twisted to justify that its statement that it "brought you out of the darkness and into the light", when in reality it helped you to be kidnapped, raped, murdered, transported, indoctorinated, and made you ignorant.

The churchand christianityhas been a tool to advance oppression and plundering - traits of capitalism - from King Constantine, to the Crusades, to Colonialism, to Slavery, to Industrialisation, and finally Globalisation.When the first colonisers landed in Africa, they had the Christian religion and the people of Africa had the land. Now the Africans have the Christian religion and the people of the colonisers have the land. This is an example of what is concealed in the illusion of Christianity. also it has failed in its governance of states, denied science and fuelled aethism, secularism, democracy, oppression, racism and homosexuality.



Why do you still follow this religion when their entire book and doctorine has many faults, controversies and inconsistancies.



i do not seek to promote my own religion or to argue, i just would like to hear peoples practical reasoning if any that can overlook all the problematic areas. i must say that whatever your religion, if it makes you good then i commend you for being so and accept that it has been good for you. if you are to condemn my religion which is islam, then do yourself justice first and read the entire book the Quran first, the same as i have read your book.

Christinity began in africa and asia and spread to the east via natural human migrationaround the world. religion has no colour. we are all Gods people

it was not the religion of chriostinity that oppressed us but people

just to confirm that i refer to christianity not as it was in its original form in africa/asia, but how its is now. it was changed from the inputs of king constatine of constantinople who change the religion and mouded it into the bases of what it is tody. it is this form of christianity that instigated the first use of the cross, spread through europe and crusaded against the middle east, was further doctored and manipulated by king james and then used as a tool in colonialism to make natives "civilised" and to make slaves compliant on reaching new lands. even today this form of christianity promoted and previously given by western missionaries, priests, etc, is different from that followed by the people of palistine, eritreya, egypt, ethiopia, etc.

with any religion there are many varioations to it. as christianity being the topic here. you have the catholics protestants pentecostal baptist etc some orthodox some modern. this can be said for any religion. yes there were christian crusades but likewise islamist did the same which is why some lands in africa which would have been christian fully are either islamic or a combination of the two eg nigeria.

again you refer to people who in the name of religion did many things good and bad, however its the people who opress and not the religion.

indeed you may not refer to the religion in its opriginal form but you cannot neglect the origins of the religion either. its like me saying that muslims follow an out of date and time religion that serves no purpose but to oppress women and all those against. but surely this si only the case for some.

i attend a church that does not state it is of any denomination its just a church of Father God and Jesus Christ the saviour

many critics like yourself often forget what being a christian is which is already outlined in another post. plus again so what if some people have made errors. i am gonna praise God and follow the teachers of my Lord Saviour Jesus Christ whenever i can.

yes there are many versions of the bible, but most times they are only translated into modern language. the koran has many of the same books as in the bible. yet one thing that distinguises the two. Jesus fulfilled a promised outlined in the old testament and everyday a different prophecy is being fulfilled what can you say of other religions. plus if all you do is look at what the colur of the skin is in the person giving you religious doctrine whats the point.

ps i noticed that you have left out the fact that the arabs were the first to enslave black people in the sense that you speak they gave this skill to the european hence why north african countries people look like a mixture of asian and africaarabs/asians made money along with europeans by enslaving african together. so what is your point.

people who believe in christianity are not following people, they are following Jesus Christ teachings which will lift the veil and re-unite us to our heavenly Father God who we used to be able to walk with in the garden of Eden before sin seperated us

i understand many like you will try make christianity seem less than what it is, and that is just another prophecy that is forever being fullfilled. the devil wants us to be blind to the truth

God Bless and have faith

i must say i did actually want to here the views of christians on this subject as many good people are christians, and did not seek to answer points in this way. i wanted to here any practical views for belief and not just the usual "jesus is my saviour and came to me in a flash of white light".

[ladyday] "yes there were christian crusades but likewise islamist did the same which is why some lands in africa which would have been christian fully are either islamic or a combination of the two eg nigeria. "

firstly there is no such thing an an islamist. the reason that christianity did not spread all over africa is because the religion was corrupted and the followers of jesus named themselves christians after the man and worshipped him as god even though he told them he was not, the this was further corrupted when king constantine commercialised christianity and changed the doctrine. this was why the religion of islam came to re-express the word of god sent by previous prophets that had been corrupted by the leaders of the christians and jews.

[ladyday] "again you refer to people who in the name of religion did many things good and bad, however its the people who opress and not the religion."


actually many crusades were in the name of the cross and christianity, same as missionaries went to africa in colonial times to spread christianity and "lead the natives out of the darkness and into the light"

[ladyday] "you may not refer to the religion in its opriginal form but you cannot neglect the origins of the religion either. its like me saying that muslims follow an out of date and time religion that serves no purpose but to oppress women and all those against"

the message of jesus and moses has been corrupted, the bible is not authentic, which is why the quran has come. the quran does not neglect the bibles origins and nor do i, the problem is that we can no longer refer to that original word as it has been corrupted, changed and lost so many time there is no authentic or original version. this is not the case with the quran, read it and then tell me if it oppresses women as it does not.

[ladyday] "plus again so what if some people have made errors. i am gonna praise God and follow the teachers of my Lord Saviour Jesus Christ whenever i can"

if there are error it means that you cannot prove that what you are worshipping is correct or true, or whether the basis of that worship is true or if it was what jesus told the people to do. the teachers you follow are men and men have faults, so follow them if you will, they cannot prove to you the basis of their teaching is authentic.

[ladyday] "yes there are many versions of the bible, but most times they are only translated into modern language. the koran has many of the same books as in the bible"

the original bible was written by many writers and scholers from many diferent countries over many years, and in reference to the new testemant, written many years after the death of jesus and the people who actually met him. it has been chaged many times in terms of wording, meaning and books included and excluded. it is scientifically and historically regarded as unauthentic. this is not the case for the quran. the quran does not include books of the bible but it does refer to people, prophets and information also included in the bible. there is one quran that has been translated into many languages. when tranlated back into arabic, there are the exact same as the original copy which still exists and authenticated by the prophet muhammad (pbuh) himself in front of witnesses 1400 years ago, and this has been authenticated.

[ladyday] "arabs were the first to enslave black people in the sense that you speak they gave this skill to the european"

this may be true, but arab does not equal muslim. it is known that many arab tribes were bad and many changed when they converted to islam after it was revealed to the prophet muhammed (pbuh) which dictated the freedom of slaves.

[ladyday] "people who believe in christianity are not following people, they are following Jesus Christ teachings"

if they were following the teaching of jesus christ they would not be worshipping him as god, or praying to a cross. jesus did not teach this and made it clear he was not god. the teaching of jesus, like i said above was written long after his death by people who never met him and changed many times so how would you even know if you was really following the word of jesus. you follow the words of kings and scholars, church leadersand the vatican who said what to include in the bible, and change it at their whim. this is why you now have gay preists even though the bible disallows it, you worship jesus as god even though the bible disallows it.

bismallah ramanhir raheem

@blackmatta

you are correct in your points and they gave me some perspective, but initially i did not seek to tear people away form their beliefs or make them doubt their religion (ok, maybe a little bit on the last point).

however, i did actually wonder what makes them believe even though their are so much issues and contradictions both past and present. i did not intend to respond to them as it would be their declaration of faith, and if it works for them then so be it. i only was to reply to any such person that misinterpreted what i said or sought to attack my comments, which is what happened.

i consider that when we enter into a contract, marriage, law or political system or faith that we may believe, we will constantly question it whenever some new information comes to light. sometimes our judgement does change and this erodes our connection to what we have entered into. it is for us to evaluate the evidence or information to consider its relavance, and this is why such information can be given to a believer of any faith as we have the mind to make rational decisions. this even applies to a christian and me posing such points as above, as even the most committed christian may consider it and their conclusion will either strengthen their faith or tell them their are some evident issues that need further research which may then prove them to be true or untrue. they may answer through christianity and/or through other literature, either way highlight contradictions i referred to. for these reasons many christians leave christianity and also i admit many other people join christianity as faith is proven or unproven which usually depends of the rationality, mentality, and information. i give an example of the turin shroud, proven by christianity, disproven by science and now many christians disbelieve it. also history tells us the use of the cross, comes from king constantine who used it to plunder, and before that it was a pagan symbol. my points of contradictions more refer to the written word of holy scriptures, also proven not to be authentic and highly contradictive.

personaly if my religion done this and i know it to be the same for other muslims, they would no longer have faith, as to believe you have to know its true, which means it must be authentic. i would question from inside and compare it against itself and then against the outside areas of science, physics, math, geology, geography, etcthat can be proven, and this is why people believe in the quran because these things have been done and its facts have always been correct. but if they were wrong i would say this book is not correct and therefore cannot be the word of god as god could not be wrong, or man has corrupted his word, either way how can i believe in it as the way and the truth. however this is not the case with the quran, but it is with christianity and its word the bible.

The Bible of or any religious book is only part of ones faith. prayer prior to reading reveals the truth.

and no christians know that God is God, his son is Jesus. i can see that you dont understand and i am not the best person to explain. so i will leave it there.

you saiod that the koran does not have some of the same books as the bible. many muslims have told me it has.

@chinkkie

I don't believe for a second that you know much or anything about the bible. Just reading the bible doesn't mean you will understand it, how can you tell me that the bible doesn't refer to Jesus as God. I told you in the other section or topic, that John chapter 1 says it all.

Apart from that one, there was a time that Jesus was praying to His Father and he said that He want believers to be one, Just as He is one withthe Father. Reference for this is John 17: 20-26

Another place waswhere Jesus was tempted by the devil,here Jesus refer to Himself as God.Matthew4: 7 Jesus answered Him, it is also written: "Do not put the Lord your God to the test"

You said the bible doesn't say we should worship Jesus, Why wasHe worshipped by the wise men then???John14 : 6 Jesus said; I am the way the Truth and theLife, no one comes to the Father but by me.

@ blackmatta.. i must say that you summerisd what i meant better than i could. that is exactly what i meant. i agree that to arrive at a 100% ultimate truth based on tools is impossible which is why people have faith, the problem then is what to have faith in, as even in maths there is only 99.9(reoccuring)%, there is always something outstanding or unknown. the reason i am a muslim and follow the quran is for many reasons. what gives me the unfallable truth is merely down to authenticity and the laws probability. the quran is authenticated, it does not have contradictions, it does not have miastakes, it has not been proven to be wrong, it is proven that is was written down in front of the prophet it was revealed to and has been preserved and evaded curroption. it has countless facts on science, geology, botany, geography, physics in it and all have been proven to be correct even though many are very advance, therefore the probability that they all have been correct is highly doubtful, but they all have been correct. they only thing, and actually the main thing that i cannot prove myself practically is where it came from which is the unknown part and where faith comes in, but only because there is no reasonable or proven doubt, but it had to have come from somewhere or something with a knowledge much greator than anything on this earth, as nothing on earth could explain such things, but only confirm them, which in some instances took over a 1000 years to do so. therefore the 00000000000.1% which is blind faith is actually not blind as it is based on unfallable and authenticated evidence which backs up the fact that the same book (quran) says "this is from god".

@chinkkie: I haven't finished with you.

Philippians 2 also says Jesus is God and HE is to be worshipped, Phil 2:6-11

Who being in very natureGod, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, (v7) but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. (V8) And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death-even death on the Cross!

v9) therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every other name,

10) that at the name of Jesus every Knee should bow ( including Mohammed) (****** not included in the bible)in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11) and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

If that doesn't means worship Jesus, what does it mean then??? Now listen, if you don't know the bible , just don't bother saying what you don't know. You give people the wrong impression.

Why are you talking about Christianity leading to slave trade etc, Well it is just like saying ISlam has made us have terrorist Today. May I point to You that Jesus is not only the God of the Europeans, but he is the God of every race. The Great commission was for us to share the Gospel, it was brought to Africa by the missionaries, but it doesn't mean it is their ownreligion or it was what they created.

Why do you enter an Aeroplane, you know it was made by european or made in the West, but you don't refuse to enter it because you know it doesn't matter where or who made it, it is a great way of taveling. So like wise, the christianity was brought to Africa by the Europeans, but you shouldn't judge christianity by what the Europeans do or what they have done. You mentioned that people don't go to church like before, and that Christianity has lost it's place, whilst that is true for the UK and a few European country, it is certainly hasn't lost it's place in Africa, and other regions of the world. More and people are becoming Christians, it is happening in China, Nigeria, India and other places.

That is why Christian Nations are the greatest and will still be the greatest on the face of the Earth, one final point, I have known many Muslims who have turned to Christianity because Islam doesn't give them an assurance of salvation. My mum was born to a muslim family, she and all her sisters have since changed. But i have met Pastors or ordinary Christian who have been converted to Christainity because the Quran also tell them to Follow the Book, ie the Bible.

So you saying you know the Bible and Quran, i haven't read the Quran, but you can't say i cannot agrue with you becauseI only know the bible. I don't have to read the Quran, others have read it and it gave no way out. Christianity is the only way to God. And it is through Jesus Christ only.

I don't really want to argue here, but if you wanna go on with the arguement, I 'd prefer to agrue in person, then I can show you the fact. But know what you say, don't just say something that you don't understand.

Regards and God bless. Don't take this personal, I was only trying to correct your errors or ommission. Can't sit here and just read this without commenting.

@ladyday, i say again, the quran does not have the same books as the bible, it merely has some of the same people, places, and occurances as the books of the bible does.

@saint, i have already ansered you other post and said that john does not "say it all".

in the scriptures thisdoes not say jesus is god it says he prayed to god. there is no bible verse that says "jesus is god the son", which is why you have not provided a verse reference as you have interpreted it as the church has told you to, and god does not tell you he is the