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Reload this Page To the Critics of the Nation of Islam

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Post imported post - 17-12-04, 11:41 PM

Good point, queen...

RM
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Post imported post - 18-12-04, 06:58 AM

Seventh_Angel,

Do the passages of the Koran that you cited come before or after the passages cited by PaRrIs? Isn't there such thing as the law of abrogation, by which whatever Mohammed may have said earlier is overwritten by what he said later in life? meaning, if he preached love nd whtnot in his early days, the passages about slaughter that were spoken in his later days would take precedence? I'm sorry, but I agree with Parris' sentiments (even if they're not in his exact words): Islam inspires extreme behavior in its followers. To be fair, I ain't a big fan of Christianity either, but as it stands the fundamentalists thus far are only forcing their religion down everyones' throats, not beheading people.
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Post imported post - 18-12-04, 06:54 PM

Iolite wrote:
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Seventh_Angel, Do the passages of the Koran that you cited come before or after the passages cited by PaRrIs?
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Regarding how my responses to Parris should be read, they generally are AFTER what was previously cited by Parris, except where I mention that a few paragraphs are missing.
The verses that I cited from the Qur'an are in GREEN.

Isn't there such thing as the law of abrogation, by which whatever Mohammed may have said earlier is overwritten by what he said later in life? meaning, if he preached love nd whtnot in his early days, the passages about slaughter that were spoken in his later days would take precedence?

First, let me state for the record that the Holy Qur'an is not Prophet Muhammad's words to the people. The Holy Qur'an is ALLAH's Words to the people, THROUGH Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

There are a few instances where this (abrogation)may APPEAR to be the case; and in fact may be the case. However, in such instances, the abrogation is CLEAR, not subtle. The fact is that there is NOTHING in the Holy Qur'an which abrogates the verses I cited. The Command of Allah to the Muslims is simple..."Never be the aggressor, in word or in deed; but FIGHT against those who BRING YOU the fight....and when they declare and wage war on YOU...KILL THEM WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM. But if they incline to PEACE, you also must incline to PEACE."

The notion that Islam condones converting by the sword is simply a lie...period. There is absolutely no basis forsuch in the Holy Qur'an.

"Democracy" - which is usually spread under the guise of "Christianity" -is more worthy of such a reputation. White people are spreading their "democracy" (demos-kratis, demon-craci, rule of the DEVIL) by the sword(gun)...."Convert or die" is the battle cry of Bush, Blair and their partners in this unholy Crusade.

I'm sorry, but I agree with Parris' sentiments (even if they're not in his exact words): Islam inspires extreme behavior in its followers. To be fair, I ain't a big fan of Christianity either, but as it stands the fundamentalists thus far are only forcing their religion down everyones' throats, not beheading people.

Your agreement with Parris' post is irrelevant. There are no doubt MILLIONS of people who share that view, but they, and you,aremistaken. Not that there is anything wrong with "extreme behavior". If you arebeing attacked, that is an"extreme circumstance"; then your survival depends on taking "extreme measures", but for the Muslims, the Holy Qur'an is the Guide and we are not to deviate from the Guidance therein.

The devil wants the righteous to be lukewarm, so he can perpetuate his rule/control over humanity. If the believers in Freedom, Justice and Equality do not take "extreme measures" to liberate themselves from the control of the evil ones, they will be slaves forever.

The HOLY QUR'AN is the SUPREME LAW and the Final Word in Islam. The claims and accusations made in Parris' post have nobasisin the Holy Qur'an...not if the verses are kept in CONTEXT.

This whole arguement that "Islam converts with the sword" is rooted in the desire to continue in rebellion against God's Way. The Devils accuse the Righteous of what THEY(devils) are guilty of, and then play the "victim", to gain world sympathy - like that mischievous child in class who likes to aggravate and poke at a student in a way that escapes the eye of the Teacher and other students,until his victim finally lashes out in retaliation, giving the APPEARANCE that the VICTIM is actually the AGGRESSOR, when in truth he or she is only DEFENDING himself/herself against the UNSEEN aggression of the mischievous one.
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Salaam(Peace)...
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Post imported post - 19-12-04, 12:22 AM

In the name of Allah the beneficent the merciful.



I have read through many of the comments in this forum , I am particurlarly impress with the way seventh_angel defends the teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. You have much knowledge and most of the people in this forum do not and cannot even consider the knowledge you posses and the eloquence and poise that you use in your expression of the teachings.

May Allah continue to bless you with the level of awarness you possess.

salaam alaikum for you.
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Post imported post - 19-12-04, 04:16 AM

Ecks wrote:
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In the name of Allah the beneficent the merciful.
I have read through many of the comments in this forum , I am particurlarly impress with the way seventh_angel defends the teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. You have much knowledge and most of the people in this forum do not and cannot even consider the knowledge you posses and the eloquence and poise that you use in your expression of the teachings.
May Allah continue to bless you with the level of awarness you possess.
salaam alaikum for you.
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In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...the Best Knower.
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It is as Allah has pleased. The Vessel is not the Source of what it contains. I am just thankful to Allah for the opportunity to try to represent His Guidance and the Two Men through Whom that Guidance came to me - The Hon. Elijah Muhammad and the Hon. Louis Farrakhan.
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May Allah Bless you and your family with His Peace and Protection in this hour.
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RM
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Post imported post - 25-12-04, 06:25 PM

Malcom X was a critic of Nation of Islam.. ...What would you say to him?


"The Change to True Islam

On March 12, 1964, impelled by internal jealousy within the Nation of Islam and revelations of Elijah Muhammad's sexual immorality, Malcolm left the Nation of Islam with the intention of starting his own organization:

I feel like a man who has been asleep somewhat and under someone else's control. I feel what I'm thinking and saying now is for myself. Before, it was for and by guidance of another, now I think with my own mind.

Malcolm was thirty-eight years old when he left Elijah Muhammad's Nation of Islam. Reflecting on reflects that occurred prior to leaving, he said:

At one or another college or university, usually in the informal gatherings after I had spoken, perhaps a dozen generally white-complexioned people would come up to me, identifying themselves as Arabian, Middle Eastern or North African Muslims who happened to be visiting, studying, or living in the United States. They had said to me that, my white-indicting statements notwithstanding, they felt I was sincere in considering myself a Muslim -- and they felt if I was exposed to what they always called "true Islam," I would "understand it, and embrace it." Automatically, as a follower of Elijah, I had bridled whenever this was said. But in the privacy of my own thoughts after several of these experiences, I did question myself: if one was sincere in professing a religion, why should he balk at broadening his knowledge of that religion?

Those orthodox Muslims whom I had met, one after another, had urged me to meet and talk with a Dr. Mahmoud Youssef Shawarbi. . . . Then one day Dr. Shawarbi and I were introduced by a newspaperman. He was cordial. He said he had followed me in the press; I said I had been told of him, and we talked for fifteen or twenty minutes. We both had to leave to make appointments we had, when he dropped on me something whose logic never would get out of my head. He said, "No man has believed perfectly until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself."

The Effect of the Pilgrimage

Malcolm further continues about the Hajj:

The pilgrimage to Mecca, known as the Hajj, is a religious obligation that every orthodox Muslim fulfills, if able, at least once in his or her lifetime.

The Holy Quran says it, "Pilgrimage to the House [of God built by the prophet Abraham] is a duty men owe to God; those who are able, make the journey." (3:97)

Allah said: "And proclaim the pilgrimage among men; they will come to you on foot and upon each lean camel, they will come from every deep ravine" (22:27).

Every one of the thousands at the airport, about to leave for Jeddah, was dressed this way. You could be a king or a peasant and no on e would know. Some powerful personages, who were discreetly pointed out to me, had on the same thing I had on. Once thus dressed, we all had begun intermittently calling out "Labbayka! (Allahumma) Labbayka!" (Here I come, O Lord!) Packed in the plane were white, black, brown, red, and yellow people, blue eyes and blond hair, and my kinky red hair -- all together, brothers! All honoring the same God, all in turn giving equal honor to each other. . . .

That is when I first began to reappraise the "white man." It was when I first began to perceive that "white man," as commonly used, means complexion only secondarily; primarily it described attitudes and actions. In America,"white man" meant specific attitudes and actions toward the black man, and toward all other non-white men. But in the Muslim world, I had seen that men with white complexions were more genuinely brotherly than anyone else had ever been. That morning was the start of a radical alteration in my whole outlook about "white" men.

There were tens of thousands of pilgrims, from all over the world. They were of all colors, from blue-eyed blonds to black-skinned Africans. But we were all participating in the same ritual displaying a spirit of unity and brotherhood that my experiences in America had led me to believe never could exist between the white an d the non-white...America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem. Throughout my travels in the Muslim world, I have met, talked to, and even eaten with people who in America would have been considered white -- but the "white" attitude was removed from their minds by the religion of Islam. I have never before seen sincere and true brotherhood practiced by all colors together, irrespecitve of their color.

The Oneness of Man Under One God

It was during his pilgrimage that he began to write some letters to his loyal assistants at the newly formed Muslim Mosque in Harlem. He asked that his letter be duplicated and distributed to the press:

Never have I witnessed such sincere hospitality and the overwhelming spirit of true brotherhood as is practiced by people of all colors and races here in this ancient Holy Land, the House of Abraham, Muhammad, and all the other Prophets of the Holy Scriptures. For the past week, I have been utterly speechless and spellbound by the graciousness I see displayed all around me by people of all colors. . . .

You may be shocked by these words coming from me. But on this pilgrimage, what I have seen, and experienced, has forced me to rearrange much of my thought-patterns previously held, and to toss aside some of my previous conclusions. This was not too difficult for me. Despite my firm convictions, I have always been a man who tries to face facts, and to accept the reality of life as new experience and new knowledge unfolds it. I have always kept an open mind, which necessary to the flexibility that must go hand in hand with every form of intelligent search for truth.

During the past eleven days here in the Muslim world, I have eaten from the same plate, drunk from the same glass, and slept in the same bed (or on the same rug) -- while praying to the same God -- with fellow Muslims, whose eyes were the bluest of blue, whose hair was the blondest of blond, and whose skin was the whitest of white. And in the words and in the actions and in the deeds of the "white" Muslims, I felt the same sincerity that I felt among the black African Muslims of Nigeria, Sudan, and Ghana.

We were truly all the same (brothers) -- because their belief in one God had removed the "white" from their minds, the 'white' from their behavior, and the 'white' from their attitude.

I could see from this, that perhaps if white Americans could accept the Oneness of God, then perhaps, too, they could accept in reality the Oneness of Man -- and cease to measure, and hinder, and harm others in terms of their "differences" in color.

With racism plaguing America like an incurable cancer, the so-called "Christian" white American heart should be more receptive to a proven solution to such a destructive problem. Perhaps it could be in time to save America from imminent disaster -- the same destruction brought upon Germany by racism that eventually destroyed the Germans themselves.

They asked me what about the Hajj had impressed me the most. . . . I said, "The brotherhood! The people of all races, color, from all over the world coming to gether as one! It has proved to me the power of the One God. . . . All ate as one, and slept as one. Everything about the pilgrimage atmosphere accented the Oneness of Man under One God.

Malcolm returned from the pilgrimage as El-Hajj Malik al-Shabazz. He was afire with new spiritual insight. For him, the struggle had evolved from the civil rights struggle of a nationalist to the human rights struggle of an internationalist and humanitarian.

After the Pilgrimage

White reporters and others were eager to learn about El-Hajj Malik's newly-formed opinions concerning themselves. They hardly believed that the man who had preached against them for so many years could suddenly turn around and call them brothers. To these people El-Hajj Malik had this to say:

You're asking me "Didn't you say that now you accept white men as brothers?" Well, my answer is that in the Muslim world, I saw, I felt, and I wrote home how my thinking was broadened! Just as I wrote, I shared true, brotherly love with many white-complexioned Muslims who never gave a single thought to the race, or to the complexion, of another Muslim.

My pilgrimage broadened my scope. It blessed me with a new insight. In two weeks in the Holy Land, I saw what I never had seen in thirty-nine years here in America. I saw all races, all colors, -- blue-eyed blonds to black-skinned Africans -- in true brotherhood! In unity! Living as one! Worshipping as one! No segregationists -- no liberals; they would not have known how to interpret the meaning of those words.

In the past, yes, I have made sweeping indictments of all white people. I will never be guilty of that again -- as I know now that some white people are truly sincere, that some truly are capable of being brotherly toward a black man. The true Islam has shown me that a blanket indictment of all white people is as wrong as when whites make blanket indictments against blacks.

To the blacks who increasingly looked to him as a leader, El-Hajj Malik preached a new message, quite the opposite of what he had been preaching as a minister in the Nation of Islam:

True Islam taught me that it takes all of the religious, political, economic, psychological, and racial ingredients, or characteristics, to make the Human Family and the Human Society complete.

Since I learned the truth in Mecca, my dearest friends have come to include all kinds -- some Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, agnostics, and even atheists! I have friends who are called capitalists, Socialists, and Communists! Some of my friends are moderates, conservatives, extremists -- some are even Uncle Toms! My friends today are black, brown, red, yellow, and white!

I said to my Harlem street audiences that only when mankind would submit to the One God who created all -- only then would mankind even approach the "peace" of which so much talk could be heard...but toward which so little action was seen."

http://www.colostate.edu/Orgs/MSA/find_more/m_x.html
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Post imported post - 25-12-04, 06:32 PM

In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...the Best Knower.

Salaam to all.

By the Grace of Allah, I know the ROOT of Malcolm's criticism of the Nation; and I know for a FACT that before he died he was seeking a way BACK TO the Nation.

In any event, Malcolm is gone. Let him rest in peace.

RM
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Post imported post - 25-12-04, 11:50 PM

What is the Teachingsof the Hon.

who is the Hon ??

:?

ima musilm but i dont know who the hon is???


The real voyage of discovery consists of not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes.

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Post imported post - 26-12-04, 02:11 AM

silver moon wrote:
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What is the Teachingsof the Hon.
who is the Hon ?? ima musilm but i dont know who the hon is???
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Please Read >> The Hon. Elijah Muhammad
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RM
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Post imported post - 26-12-04, 04:34 PM

what i dont understand now that i have looked up Teachingsof the Hon. is did he follow islam the way the messenger of allah did ?

or did he change some parts of islam to make it useful for his own needs ?

confused3




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Post imported post - 26-12-04, 05:17 PM

"Regarding the "Nation of Islam", their official doctrine is that Allaah appeared in the form
of a human being named Fard Muhammad, and that this "incarnation of God" chose another man, called Elijah Muhammad, as his Prophet. This is a clear contradiction of the Monotheistic faith (at-Tawheed), and of the Qur'aanic teaching according to which Muhammad (blessings and peace upon him) is the Seal of the Prophets. That is enough to say that everyone who belongs to the "Nation of Islam" is not, ipso facto, a Muslim, but an unbeliever. Muslims must declare this truth, and each one of them who keeps silent while listening to Mr. Farrakhan being called "a Muslim leader" is sinning."

from..

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olym...i_beliefs.html

http://www.ummah.com/what-is-islam/abuse/19.htm