In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...

5:82 - Thou wilt certainly find the most violent of people in enmity against the believers to be the Jews and the idolaters; and thou wilt find the nearest in friendship to the believers to be those who say, We are Christians. That is because there are priests and monks among them and because they are not proud.
83. And when they hear that which has been revealed to the Messenger thou seest their eyes overflow with tears because of the truth they recognize. They say: Our Lord, we believe, so write us down with the witnesses.

surely all your new topics could be put into one.

do not see the point of you starting all these useless topics when you could have just added to the ones you started before!!!!!!!!!

@Seventh_Angel

You want to cease from the Quran and follow what your heart is truely telling you. Jesus is the way the truth and the light no man come to Father but by him. This is the truth and only truth. All roads lead there and stop right there at Jesus.

Whether you be Hindu, Sikh, whatever they wish to be... Jesus shall stand before us all and the bible says every knee shall bow and every tongue confess it.

So lets get use to confessing it now before its too late.

I would like to raise a question to you brotha. From my studies I, correct me if I am wrong, believe that the Qua ran(sorry if misspelled, no disrespect) was written in 64 A.D. I also would like to state that the Qua ran makes a lot of statements about Jesus but the bible does not mention anything about Mohammad.Think about this,would not 64 years be enough time for a man to sit down around the first century and make up stories, not only about a false god"Allah"but also about what he perceives my Lord and Saviour Jesus to be. Please I would like some feedback into what you think. I have not wrote this to birth any hostility, but on the contrary it is so that incredulous minds want have to be skeptical any longer. Bless you brotha.

In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...the Best Knower.

Perhaps, I should start by saying something about my background. I was born and raised a Christian, of the Apostolic denomination. I lived 24 years of my life as such, and was always very sincere, not just about my Belief, but also about my STUDY as a Christian.

I'm saying that to say this. There is nothing you can tell me about the Christian Doctrine that I don't already know...nothing. So it really is useless to try to INFORM me of what I already know.

Now, if you wish to REASON over certain points or principles, fine...I'm all for that.

However, there are a few issues I want to address, first.

1) For one person to presume that they know what is in another person's heart, especially from an attitude of condescention, is a sign of arrogance; and we all know that Jesus was not an arrogant man.

Consider the following:

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Now, I find this very interesting...that Jesus, would tell "Christians" (those who come in His Name) "I never knew you...ye that work iniquity." Apparently, it was this "iniquity" that disquailified them as true Servants of His. Well then, let's go after this word, "iniquity".

iniquity
\In*iq"ui*ty\, n.; pl. Iniquities. [OE. iniquitee, F. iniquit['e], L. iniquitas, inequality, unfairness, injustice. See Iniquous.] 1. Absence of, or deviation from, just dealing; want of rectitude or uprightness; gross injustice; unrighteousness; wickedness; as, the iniquity of bribery; the iniquity of an unjust judge.

Now, let us look at the word "work":

work
n. Physical or mental effort or activity directed toward the production or accomplishment of something; Something that has been produced or accomplished through the effort, activity, or agency of a person or thing.
v. To exert oneself physically or mentally in order to do, make, or accomplish something.

Now, Jesus called these so-called Followers/Worshippers of His "workers of iniquity" - people who exert themselves in order to make or accomplish creating unfairness, or inequality, or are unjust in their judgements.

How on earth could anyone do these things IN JESUS' NAME? Easy. They may have been wearing the name of JESUS, but they were carrying the mind and heart of Satan...and what mind is that? "I am better than he." That is setting up an "inequality."

In mathematics, the statement 3>2 would be read, "three is greater than two". Well, in RELIGION, PEOPLE read it this way... I>U ... "I" am greater than "You".

Jesus didn't walk around with an "I'm better than you" attitude, nor did ANY Prophet or Messenger of God. Men of God are FORBIDDEN from creating INEQUALITIES, even in their own minds, yet we find in ALL of the Religions this sickness in the heart that makes "religious" people see themselves as "better than" others who may not share their Faith Tradition.

Now notice, Jesus didn't accuse them of simply being "guilty" of iniquity...but he called them "workers" of iniquity. They actually spent time and energy trying to produce the illusion that they were better than "non-Christians". And this is what got them rejected by the Man they claimed as their Savior, because they were spending time trying to prove they were "better" than the people they were sent to SAVE! Unjust judges...forming unjust judgements of their own self worth and the worth of others.

No wonder Jesus told those wicked people, "get away from me...I never knew you." In other words, "you CLAIM me, but you were NEVER OF me...you just USE me to get your GAME over."

I certainly wouldn't want to be like that. Would You?

Now...

MY motive for posting what I did above - the original post - was LOVE...LOVE for ALL BELIEVERS in GOD, and a DESIRE to see the Gulf that exists between people of Faith diminished...a Desire to facilitate ONENESS among God's Worshippers.

What was YOUR MOTIVE for trying to set yourself apart? Are you setting up an "inequality"? Are you, too, a worker of "iniquity"?

By the way, did you know that "Allah" is also the name used for God by Arabic Speaking Christians?

The Sun of Truth is Rising, whether we like it or not. We would do well to wake from our slumber.

Peace and Love to the Believers in God.

RM

P.S.- If you wish to know the History of Islam and the Revelation of the Qur'an, you need only do a Google Search. Perhaps I will address that another time.

@ a-mere-man

the quran was first revealed in 611 ad, which is later then you thought and probably further fuels you beleif in what you state. you make a fair point which many have made before, probably all through history.

in answer... i tell you that because of the scientifically proven facts contained in the quran concerning botany, biology, geography, physics, etc, some of which have not been proven in western science untill recently, it is impossible to say that prophet muhammad (pbuh) who lived in the middle of a desert was a liar or made it all up.

he could not have made it all up as what he has said has been proven to be true. he could not have stolen this information as some of it was not know in western science until recently so 1400 years ago he would have nobody or place to steal it from.

for these reasons it is believed that this information could have only been revealed to him from god. in 1400 years no other explanation has been proven by the church, western science or otherwise. the quran even has its own falsification test and challenges anyone to find discrepancies in it, by saying there are no discrepancies in it as it is a revealation from god. refer to my post on the "aetheists or agnostics", and "the koran" threads for such examples, there are many more, some of which i can tell you, obviously with the quranic references and relation to science, etc. also the quran today can be proven to be the same one revealed 1400 years ago exactly, with nothing added in or taken out.

the word ALLAH is not the name of a false god. it is the name of the one true god in the arabic language. known as god in english, got in afrikaans, gott in german, gudd in danish, allon in phoenician, atnatu in aboriginie, deus in latin, jehovah in hebrew.

jesus is perceived to be a prophet or messenger of god who was given a divine revelation to convey to the people and teach them to pray to god. he is not considered to be god, just as jesus does not say in the bible he is god (refer to, matthew6:9-10, 7:21, john 5:30, mark 13:32, luke 11:2, to name but a few instances of jesus making it clear he is not god). the commandments also say not to worship false idols as god, which would include worshipping man (jesus) as god. even the bible tell us that when on the cross jesus cried out "my god, my god, why hast thou forsaken thee (matthew 15:34). he obviously wasnt shouting to himself.

consider also that the quran acceptes all prophets and it is the last message of god revealed. the word of jesus was prior to this and its christian followers do not accept muhammad, same as the word of the torah was prior to this and its jewish followers do not accept jesus.

also consider that the quran accepts all prophets from adam to muhammad, including abraham, moses and jesus. it refers to islam not as a new religion but as a re-expression of the original religion given to adam in its final form. the word of the torah and bible are but previous forms but as they have been considered to be corrupted, islam has been revealedthrough prophet muhammad (pbuh) for all mankind, and is the final revealation.

Thank you, chinkkie, for taking the time to answer.

Salaam.

salaam brother

I would like to start off by saying to seventh angel. You typed all of that up but yet you still did not answer my question. I hope that you are not trying to evade it. The added stuff is absolutely repugnant. Not one time did I ask you to use the Word of God to support your answer, rather I posed a simple question to you which you still have not and perhaps can not answer. You are absolutely right when Christ says that not everyone that says Lord Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven. That is for the people that live duplexed lives, or should I say they are two-faced. But that is just a part of life, what are you trying to insinuate. In life you are going to have people that will not be real with themselves or with Jesus, whom is God. Just like you have some corrupt "Christians" you have some corrupt "Muslims" just like the corrupt "cop" and the corrupt "politician". Understand, how can a Christian do what he or she does in the name of Jesus when it is not from the heart. How can a Muslim do what he does for "all ah" I emphatically ask if it is with the wrong intentions. How can a cop do what he does in the name of the law when his motives are corrupt and how can a politician say that he does something in the name of his country when he is corruptas well. I am not trying to say that I know what is in your heart, but Jesus said that you will know a tree by its fruit. And he also says from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks...scholar. Also perhaps the Arabic speaking Christians do probably call God "all ah", I don'tdoubt it seeing that they are Arabic,but on the contrary they call Jesus God as well. They profess that Jesus and God are one, which they are, if not....they would not be called Christians.

Brotha or sistachinkkie. When Jesus was on the cross and he says in agonizing pain My God My God why hast thou forsaken me. That is Jesus at that hour crying out what man is away from Him(Christ) Understand, If Jesus took the place of sinful man on the cross than this means that he has the same mindset as well. God placed on him all of the sins of the world. He looked through the annuls of time and put all sins past and future on his beloved son Christ Jesus. Man away from Christ has a tremendous void. they wander aimlessly around trying to find things to nullify the effects of this void but one will never be found remaining in a reclusive state from Christ. Man is a shameful thing to God, and just as God took his hand off Jesus on the cross so he takes his hand off of the man that is tainted by sin. Understand Christ was not crying out for himself, rather Christ was only crying what was in the hearts of what was in sinful man. Since he represented sinful man on the cross. When Christ prays to his Father.........I know that is what the enemy is going to tell you next in order that you will never come to the truth. As Jesus said, I am the Way, The TRUTH, and the light, Remember this what God has said, therefore it is a mandate. He says in the proverbs My thoughts are not your thoughts and my ways are not your ways. King Solomon said that with much wisdom comes much sorrow. The problem that many people have today is that they want to know so much, when some things they will not be able to know simply because we are mortal and God is immortal. This is the prerequisite to their sorrow, they can not find out. I will keep you both in my prayers. I love you both, and you will come to The TRUTH...The Christ.

@ a_mere_man



you have nearly now done what seventh_angel done, ignored the points and preached without evidence.

remember it was you that called allah a false god but then say you accept that god can be called allah in arabic so i will say no more on that point as i have already said why god is called allah.

on the point of jesus, in arabic he is referred to as esa not allah. the only this in arabic that is referred to allah is god. jesus is referred to as esa.

muslims do not refer to jesus as god because jesus was a man and we do not ascribe partners with allah as he is one, this is also a commandment of the bible, do not worship idols as god because god is one.

i refered to a point in christianity earlier to show why it is a falsehood of tradition in christianity to refer to jesus as god, as jesus did not say he is god, but has been interpreted by others many years after his death to mean otherwise. the bible does not say he is god as jesus always sought help from god, therefore he could not of been god and even said he was not god, and if he was im sure he would have said.

our father in heaven, hallowed be your name [luke 11:2, matthew 6:9-10)

none of those who call me lord will enter the kingdom of god, but only the one who doe the willl of my father in heaven (matthew 7:21)

i cannot do anything of myself. i judge as i hear and my judgement is honest because i am not seeking my own but the will of him who sent me (john 5:30)

no-one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, not the son, but only the father (mark 13:32)