Hades/Sheol and Hell??

Tiro · (#1 (**permalink**))

Hi everyone. I would like to ask what do u think about the after life. Do we go straight to heaven and await judgement day or do we go to Hades/Sheol? What is the difference between Hades/Hell and Sheol? If we go straight to heaven then how are we going to be raised from the dead if we are already alife and kicking in Heaven? If not why then did Jesus say I am going to prepare a place for you in heaven and will come back and take each one of you. The parable of a rich man- Nicodemus and Lazarus gives us an idea that one goes to heaven when they die and the other to Hell. Is Hell already existing. Will people be taken to hell and burn just to be taken out again to be judged then go back again. What kind of burning are we talking about here? What about those who are living in sin. Obviously no sin shall enter heaven.

What do I think? I think Hades and Sheol mean one and the same thing. They mean the land of the dead. A place of inactivity. I think we are all going there to await jugdement day. Only the faithful shall awoke on the first coming of Jesus. They shall meet with him in the heavens. All those who were still alive on His coming will continue to live and be taught the truth for a 1000 of years afterwhich the devil will be released from the abysse to test their faith.

The ones awoken at the first call will probably go to heaven and reside in the place prepared for them. Only 144 000 are to rule with Jesus. They are the ones who will teach the people on the earth about the Truth. The second coming will lead to jugdement day. Woe to those who were not awoken on the first coming of Jesus cause now they are awoken to judgement and punishment for their deeds. They will be thrown on the lake of fire with Satan. So when Jesus gave us a story about Necodimus he was talking about the future. He knows the future.

The earth and the heaven will be destroyed and a new earth and heaven will be created. There will be no Sun cause God will be the light of the new earth.(Next Eternal Torment??)
So what do you think guys ?

Cheers for now.

Saida.M · (#2 (**permalink**))

blktypeAccording to how i understand the bible, (that is the King James version), if you commit sins and do not repent and do notacknowledge asJesus the Messiah and himas your personal saviour, you are destined for hell/hades - same thing.

In Jesus's second coming 'every knee shall bow and every tongue confess him'. Many will say, 'Lord, Lord have we not done many great works in your name?' and he will say ' I know ye not!' and they will be placed in the place where there is 'great gnashing of teeth', (hell).

Those that are Jesus's faithful servants shall 'rise as from a deep slumber' and in the new heaven, there, 'lambs will play with lions', and God will 'wipe away every tear'.

blktypeIf you don't beleive there is a hell, all those who are 'evil' can carry on being so, becausethere is no incentive to be good. All those who were evil have got away with it.

Tiro · (#3 (**permalink**))

Justavoice wrote
@Tiro

Difficult question ?

Straight away Lazarus the friend of Jesus comes to mind ?. Where did he go that Jesus could call him back ?.

I think Lazarus went to Sheol. The land of the dead. Where there is no activity. You just sleep there and cant wake up unless Jesus calls you according to the will of the Father. That is why when people were dead Jesus never said they were dead but were sleeping instead. He knows they will wake up one day either through the first call (only the believers shall here the call) or through the final call (the unsaved shall also here the call then comes judgement). I dont think Lazarus was in heaven when he was called cause if he was, it would be unfair to call someone in complete bliss to come and continue to live in this world of suffering. I also remember when Saul went to a witch and asked her to wake up Samuel, Samuel said to him Saul why do you disturb me from my rest/sleep and because of that he and his sons died.

People who were taken straight to heaven were Elijah, Enoch(Gen 5:24) and Probably Moses. Why Moses because at the mount of transfiguration it was Elijah and Moses beside Jesus (Matt17:3). Also the body of Moses was not found or no one saw when/where he died. I notice that those who went straight to heaven didnt leave their bodies behind or rather die a natural death. Jesus ascended to heaven but unlike the others He tasted death and went to the land of the dead hence he holds the keys.

Remember Jesus once said "the only miracle they shall get is that of Jonas". How long did Jonas stay in the belly of that whale/fish. Any relation to Jesus Burial? God the Father calles Him from Sheol. He came out in His bodily form i.e. Rose from the dead. I dont know maybe on their way to the heavens they automatically change to a heavenly body that is why Elijah couldnt burn in the cheriot of fire. Who knows maybe Shadrack, Meshack and Abednigo were also transformed to heavenly bodies and changed back when taken out of the fire. What do u guyz think.

I also remember some in the bible were saying the beloved of the Lord (John) will not taste the fruit of death. I dont know what happened to John (the disciple). Anyone know anything about his death.
Cheers for now.
Still to come... Hell and eternal torment (reality)

Tiro · (#4 (**permalink**))

athaba what are u saying by

If you don't believeve there is a hell, all those who are 'evil' can carry on being so, because there is no incentive to be good. All those who were evil have got away with it.
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We shall all be paid according to our deeds. Even jugdement shall be applied to us with the same standard we applied on others. Do unto others as u would have done by. U reap what u sow. We cant carry on in our wicked ways in a hope of getting away with it. We have to look at this in the light of what's to come after death.

I do believe there is Hell but I dont think there is anyone in it now. Though the Lord does know who will go there cause He is not influenced by time. He can see the future just as He can see the past and the present. Our lives are like horses running on a race track. You can see where they started from and where they are going to. God however knows who will make it as a winner and who will not and the wonderful thing about a divine race is that we can all become winners. God's will is for everyone to be born again. We can all claim the first price. The crown of glory which His son has already granted to us allowing us to become heirs of His Father's Kingdom.

Cheers!!!

Saida.M · (#5 (**permalink**))

We cant carry on in our wicked ways in a hope of getting away with it.

blktypeThat's my point - if we don't believe it, then all those who have done evil things will get away with it. I'm not a strong believer in religion as such, but this part, I sort of want to believe is true, because of all the terrible things that people are doing and have done - i don't want them to get away with it.

Tiro · (#6 (**permalink**))

athaba wrote

I sort of want to believe is true, because of all the terrible things that people are doing and have done - i don't want them to get away with it.

Hm! What does your believing got to do with other people's fate. Our mare believe does not make such people to reap what the've sown. If all of us are wrong about God, Jesus, heaven and hell then there is nothing we can say, do or believe that can determine someone else's fate. You sound more like you believe in reincarnation.

When I said we cannot continue in our wickedness in a hope of getting away with it I never ment by doing or believing in such we are actually gonna get away with it. I mentioned that we should look at it in the light of what's to come (after life). We are going to be paid in accordence with our deeds. So we have to stop going on like unsaved people. Our Hope is in God. To save us by His Grace. We have faith in Him that He will call us on his First Coming and that we shall meet with Him in the Heavely realms. Of cause we too will be judged but not condemned cause: there is therefore now no condemnation, for those who believe in Christ Jesus.

Jesus advised us to set our minds on the things of the Spirit cause He knows that it is better to store riches for ourselves in heaven than on earth were they run the risk of being stolen and again you dont get to sleep cause your heart is set on the things of flesh. Flesh cannot please the Spirit, they battle instead and one should always allow the Spirit to win. God does not force himself on anyone. We have free will, we just have to subject it to his will to show our love for Him.

Can I ask you something what does athaba mean.

Cheers

imported_Seventh_Angel · (#7 (**permalink**))

Salaam (Peace) to all.

I know this might not set well with some, but I have to say it.

HELL is where you CATCH it, by your rebellion against God.

HEAVEN is where you MAKE it, by your Obedience to God.

The Hon. Elijah Muhammad taught us, and the Bible and Qur'an bear him witness if understood, that there is no "hell" under the ground and no "heaven" up in the sky. These are CONDITIONS of Life that we experience, not PLACES we go after death.

RM

Saida.M · (#8 (**permalink**))

The Hon. Elijah Muhammad taught us, and the Bible and Qur'an bear him witness if understood, that there is no "hell" under the ground and no "heaven" up in the sky. These are CONDITIONS of Life that we experience, not PLACES we go after death.

What do you mean seventh_angel? Do you mean that people who do things against God, will be in hell as they live?

Peacemaker · (#9 (**permalink**))

People might die and just live in their own subconscious. Seems a fitting heaven and hell, with all those judgements in there to live amongst. Wouldn't think it be that much different than going to sleep and dreaming at night.

imported_Seventh_Angel · (#10 (**permalink**))

In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...the Best Knower.

Salaam (Peace)...

athaba wrote:

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Do you mean that people who do things against God, will be in hell as they live?

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Consider the following:

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The Sun is 853,000 miles in diameter and burns at a surface temperature of 14,072 degrees (F).

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The Light from the Sun travels 93,000,000 miles at the rate of 186,000 miles per second to our planet, Earth; completing the journey in approximately 8 minutes and 20 seconds.

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Our planet Earth has a Diameter of 24,896 miles.

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When the Light from the Sun strikes our Earth, it causes Her to Rotate on Her axis at the rate of 1,037 1/3 miles per hour, completing a 360 degree rotation (day)once every 23 hours, 56 minutes and 46 seconds...nearly 24 hours.

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Most people who believe that "heaven" and "hell" are PLACES you go after you die - if asked to point to "heaven" and to point to "hell" - would point "up" for heaven and would point "down" for hell. Okay, let's test that out.

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It's 6am and I ask you, "Point to heaven", and you point "up". Next, I ask you, "point to hell", and you point "down". Okay, let the record show that at 6am John or Jane Doe pointed "up" for heaven and "down" for hell.

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Now, twelve hours have passed. It is now 6PM. Again, I ask you, "Point to heaven...point to hell," and you point "up" and "down" respectively...again.

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This cannot be true. Why?

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1) Because, as mentioned above, the Earth is constantly turning on it's axis at the speed of 1,037 1/3 mph, making a 360 degree rotation every 24 hrs. If, at 6am, "heaven" was "up", and "hell" was "down"; twelve hours later, at 6pm, the Earth has SHIFTED 180 degrees from its original position so that what was "up" at 6am is now "down" at 6pm. Likewise, what was "down" at 6am is now "up" at 6pm. So, at 6pm, you would have to point "down" for "heaven" and "up" for "hell", because of the shift in the Earth's rotation.

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2) If the Earth is round, and not flat, and is floating along in a Universe that is also round, then "which way IS up?" The Earth is not the "ground zero" of the Universe. "Up" and "down" are subjective terms that we use to describe spatial relationships HERE ON EARTH. "Up" really means "away from the center of the Earth." "Down" really means "toward the center of the Earth." We cannot logically say that "heaven is out in space", because the EARTH is also "out in space". If we insist that "heaven is out in space", and we have to admit that the Earth is "out in space", then there is no contradiction to say that Heaven is here on Earth.

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3) Some say that "hell" is at the center of the earth, where the fire there burns ten times hotter than the sun. Well, let's look at that. The distance from the Sun to the Earth is 93,000,000 miles. The Diameter of the Earth is 7,926 miles. Half of that - the radius - would be 3,963 miles...almost 4,000 miles. The surface temperature of the Sun, according to scientists, is about 14,072 degrees (F). There are phenomena called "heat waves" wherein the heat from the sun, as felt on earth, gets so high that it can often become fatal. That's 14,072 degrees, 93 MILLION miles away!! Now if there were a "hell" at the center of the Earth, as described, burning ten times hotter than the sun, that would be a terrific temperature of 140,720 degrees (F)...only 4 THOUSAND miles away!!! There would be NO EARTH for us to live on!! The Planet would be a big ball of hot molten gases.

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Soooo...here's the point...lol...

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The "heaven" and "hell" that we have been wrongly taught about in Sunday school are not PLACES we go in relationship to the Earth, after we die.

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I mentioned earlier that "up" and "down" are subjective terms which we generally use to describe spatial relationships here on earth. Well, where do our BODIES come from? The Earth. Where does the Spirit of God dwell in the Human Being? In the MIND. ("Let this MIND be in you, the same that was in Christ Jesus...")

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Where is the "center" of OUR Earth (body)? Just below the navel, correct? Is this not where the FIRE of our PASSIONS and LUSTS and APPETITES originates?

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When we live in rebellion against God, the Spirit of God in us is DISCONNECTED from its Source, and becomes subject to, and buried under the "earth"...the lusts of the Flesh. When the Divine Essence of us is imprisoned by the FIRE of the Lower Self - as seen in the myriad of ADDICTIONS that human beings suffer from - then we are IN HELL.

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When we live in OBEDIENCE to God, then the Spirit of God in us is constantly fed, and subjugates and regulates the forces of the Lower Self, where the Body becomes the SERVANT of the Spirit, instead of being the PRISON or GRAVE of the Spirit. This is HEAVEN...Living in Oneness with God, where His Mind becomes our mind...His Wisdom becomes our Wisdom...His Power becomes our power...His Will becomes our Will.

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This all takes place IN THIS LIFE...not after we put you in the ground. The "hereafter" is "here", on this Earth, "after" the power of the lower self (Satan)is once and for all broken, and the People are free to be and do what God Created us to be and do.

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So teaches the Hon. Elijah Muhammad. All Praise is due to Allah(God).

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Salaam (Peace) to all.

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RM

Saida.M · (#11 (**permalink**))

When we live in rebellion against God, the Spirit of God in us is DISCONNECTED from its Source, and becomes subject to, and buried under the "earth"...the lusts of the Flesh. When the Divine Essence of us is imprisoned by the FIRE of the Lower Self - as seen in the myriad of ADDICTIONS that human beings suffer from - then we are IN HELL.

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When we live in OBEDIENCE to God, then the Spirit of God in us is constantly fed, and subjugates and regulates the forces of the Lower Self, where the Body becomes the SERVANT of the Spirit, instead of being the PRISON or GRAVE of the Spirit. This is HEAVEN...Living in Oneness with God, where His Mind becomes our mind...His Wisdom becomes our Wisdom...His Power becomes our power...His Will becomes our Will.

Ok, assumingI understood what you said niceone.gif, then it leaves me with the problem that some people appear not to have any conscience or even if they do, they may not 'feel' anything in regards to your depiction ofheaven or hell - is that possible?